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 V10 - Property Prices (Up, Down or .....), and the debate goes on and on and on ...

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klbull
post Mar 23 2013, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(AVFAN @ Mar 23 2013, 01:21 AM)
at 250% total debt/gdp, boland not far behind most of the world's 10 largest economies and euro-crisis ones. but gdp/capita so low compared to them, can't be in good shape.
http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-database...l#axzz2OI0xKhDC

central banks probably do what they best - suck it up to the ruling gomen and not raise too many alarm bells. when it pops like in greece, ireland and spain, just let the politicans deal with it.
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Good observation. Malaysia's suck it up culture is deployed in so many aspects of our life. Perusing BNM's latest report and their 'hands up in the air' attitude to house prices escalation, you get the feeling that ruling politicians have been calling the shots in continued easy monetary policies to stimulate the economy since 2008. That economic report is an unapologetic excuse for a job poorly done in 2012. BNM has forsaken its regulatory role in deference to political convenience for the past few years. They are so far behind the house price curve whatever remedies they try now or in the future will have very severe ramifications. Bureaucrats are best at doing nothing that endangers their jobs. We consumers, on the other hand, hope for the best but can brace for a speeding train crash.


gark
post Mar 23 2013, 01:02 PM

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Hong Kong property market is expected to drop 20% on latest government measure. The signs are all there.... all countries property is dropping except for SEA countries...we might be next.


QUOTE
Hong Kong Homes Face 20% Price Drop as Banks Raise Rates
By Stephanie Tong & Kelvin Wong - Mar 22, 2013 3:40 PM GMT+0700

Hong Kong officials, who have struggled in vain for three years to slow the growth in home prices, are about to get their wish as the city’s biggest banks raise mortgage rates.

Prices could fall as much as 20 percent over the next two years, according to Deutsche Bank AG, after lenders including HSBC Holdings Plc, Hong Kong’s biggest by assets, and Standard Chartered Plc raise their home loan rates by 25 basis points in response to tighter risk rules.

Hong Kong dollar’s peg to the U.S. currency has kept interest rates in the city at near record lows, underpinning a more than 110 percent gain in home prices since the beginning of 2009 to the most expensive among major global cities. Low mortgage costs, coupled with a property buying spree driven by Chinese from the mainland, have seen home prices shrug off repeated attempts by the government since 2010 to stymie escalating housing values amid an outcry over affordability.

“You have this pile of measures plus higher interest rates; this will be a big challenge for the market,” said Buggle Lau, chief analyst at Midland Holdings Ltd., the city’s biggest publicly traded realtor, which predicted as many as a third of real estate agent branches in Hong Kong will close.

Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying, who took over in July as head of the government, on Feb. 22 imposed his toughest yet price-curbing measures by doubling the stamp duty on all property transactions higher than HK$2 million ($257,700). The same day, the Hong Kong Monetary Authority told banks to maintain the risk weighting for new home loans at a minimum of 15 percent to help protect them against a drop in home values.

London-based HSBC was the first among Hong Kong’s lenders to lift rates from March 14. Its mortgages linked to the best lending rate climbed to a range of 2.85 percent to 3.15 percent, while at Standard Chartered, also headquartered in London, they are from 3.1 percent to 3.5 percent.

BOC Hong Kong Holdings Ltd. (2388), the city’s largest mortgage lender, increased its prime-linked mortgage rate to 2.4 percent to 3.05 percent, according to a March 20 statement. Hang Seng Bank Ltd. (11), controlled by HSBC, has raised its mortgage rates to 2.4 percent to 3 percent. Bank of East Asia Ltd. (23) upped its prime rate-linked mortgage terms to 2.9 percent to 3.4 percent. Major banks in Hong Kong last lifted mortgage rates in November 2011.

“Banks were mispricing their retail mortgage loans,” Sebastian Paredes, chief executive officer for Hong Kong at DBS Group Holdings Ltd., Southeast Asia’s largest bank, said in a March 8 interview. “Now with the new measures from HKMA, they will be forced to correct it.”

The rate increases may finally put a dent in prices, which have climbed 16 percent since Leung was sworn in on July 1, according to an index compiled by Centaline Property Agency Ltd.

“With the new government measures, the potential further rises in mortgage rates, and the expected increases in new supply in the medium term, we expect property prices to show larger corrections,” Tony Tsang and Jason Ching, analysts at Deutsche Bank, wrote in a March 13 report.

Since 2010, Hong Kong has imposed an extra tax of up to 20 percent of the value of homes on buyers who resell them within three years after purchasing, and raised the minimum down- payment requirement on mortgages for homes valued at more than HK$7 million. Leung, in October, imposed an extra 15 percent tax on all home purchases by companies and non-permanent residents, and promised to raise land supply for private development and to build more government housing.

While the impact on prices has yet to surface, the measures have reduced transactions. The average number of homes changing hands every month fell to 6,777 last year from 7,039 in 2011 and 11,315 in 2010.

Prices of both residential and commercial real estate have “come down” in the past two weeks and the property market is “stabilizing,” Chief Executive Leung said today at the Credit Suisse Asian Investment conference.

Total home transactions may fall below 3,000 in March and prices may drop as much as 10 percent this year, said Midland’s Lau. That would be the fewest monthly deals since 2003 when Hong Kong was nearing the end of a six-year property slump brought on by the Asian financial crisis, the burst of the dot.com bubble and the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome epidemic.


This post has been edited by gark: Mar 23 2013, 01:05 PM
Hello_kitty 89
post Mar 23 2013, 02:01 PM

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Is the 20% dropped is cheaper than the appreciation previously?
SilverSpoon
post Mar 23 2013, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Mar 23 2013, 01:02 PM)
Hong Kong property market is expected to drop 20% on latest government measure. The signs are all there.... all countries property is dropping except for SEA countries...we might be next.
*
Thanks for the info. I always said that we should not compare Malaysia with Singapore and Hong Kong as they have land scarcity over there but not here. But right now as you can see, even Hong Kong a place with limited land might experience a price drop, how naive of those people to think that Malaysia is different.
gark
post Mar 23 2013, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(SilverSpoon @ Mar 23 2013, 02:23 PM)
Thanks for the info. I always said that we should not compare Malaysia with Singapore and Hong Kong as they have land scarcity over there but not here. But right now as you can see, even Hong Kong a place with limited land might experience a price drop, how naive of those people to think that Malaysia is different.
*
What goes up, must come down, nothing goes up forever. Japan in 1990's, Asia in 1997, USA in 2008, Europe in 2010...However it is hard to predict when will it reach the tipping point. Just don't be caught holding the bag. wink.gif

I stopped investing in real estate since 2008 as the rental yield are too thin and switch to equity investing. I am still getting >8% p.a. rental yield for the property I purchased before that, they help me pay all my loans. tongue.gif Rental appreciation is more or less stagnant for the past few years, as there is current oversupply of properties seeking rental. My equity since then is not doing too shabby either, now switching slowly back to cash to prepare bullets for next opportunity. wink.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Mar 23 2013, 02:33 PM
cranx
post Mar 23 2013, 02:42 PM

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gark you missed out that window to flip for big bucks buying at 2008 and selling around 2011.
SUSsakura888
post Mar 23 2013, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ Mar 20 2013, 10:15 PM)
I tot you are a mature forummer, I think I am wrong.
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im sorry to dissapoint you... laugh.gif not that some of the forumers here are mature ? seems to me, everyone already know who those upupupup ppl are i guess....
Hello_kitty 89
post Mar 23 2013, 03:02 PM

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Up or down, also don't care le. I am happy how I handle or manage my money smile.gif
gark
post Mar 23 2013, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(cranx @ Mar 23 2013, 02:42 PM)
gark you missed out that window to flip for big bucks buying at 2008 and selling around 2011.
*
I still own all those properties I bought before 2008, with good yields, why bother to flip? They are paying me handsome rentals now which exceed my bank loan installment, more or less I am getting those property for free, since my tenant is paying for me. tongue.gif

Not everyone who invest in property is a flipper you know. wink.gif Think long term...

This post has been edited by gark: Mar 23 2013, 04:29 PM
AVFAN
post Mar 23 2013, 06:33 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Mar 23 2013, 04:26 PM)
I still own all those properties I bought before 2008, with good yields, why bother to flip? They are paying me handsome rentals now which exceed my bank loan installment, more or less I am getting those property for free, since my tenant is paying for me. tongue.gif

Not everyone who invest in property is a flipper you know.  wink.gif Think long term...
*
think he meant if u r smart enuf to buy b4 2008 for longterm, u cud hv bought more to flip 2008-2011. that wud hv worked!

it's all about easy loans and bolehness to become demi gods!! tongue.gif
SUStat3179
post Mar 23 2013, 06:42 PM

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Yep. Just bought a unit at e-tiara for 410K yesterday.

Now with 2 props in my belt...I hope my own prediction won't come true....biggrin.gif, but who knows, eh?


kh8668
post Mar 23 2013, 06:47 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 23 2013, 06:42 PM)
Yep. Just bought a unit at e-tiara for 410K yesterday.

Now with 2 props in my belt...I hope my own prediction won't come true....biggrin.gif, but who knows, eh?
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Lol I thought you are waiting for market down. Where is etiara?
SUStat3179
post Mar 23 2013, 07:06 PM

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QUOTE(kh8668 @ Mar 23 2013, 06:47 PM)
Lol I thought you are waiting for market down. Where is etiara?
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I said the market will eventually go down, perhaps soon...

I never said I am NOT buying any props now.

e-tiara is at SS16.

This one special case. Owner desperate to sell, and is below asking price a bit.

So take advantage lah.
moon yuen
post Mar 23 2013, 07:08 PM

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I have read this forum for quite some time, I even search out this forum since 2009 to read....

Every post is predicting property price will drop.... (even since 2009) . But, I see its UP UP UP.

Its apparent SLOWING DOWN on subsale, but I don't see much reduction CURRENTLY.

Subsale, the price drop maybe....
New project, difficult or impossible...
zuiko407
post Mar 23 2013, 07:46 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 23 2013, 06:42 PM)
Yep. Just bought a unit at e-tiara for 410K yesterday.

Now with 2 props in my belt...I hope my own prediction won't come true....biggrin.gif, but who knows, eh?
*
Omg!
U bought the 600sf
U became next greater fool!
Launch price 230k only
U expect 1k psf in future?
tongue.gif

This post has been edited by zuiko407: Mar 23 2013, 08:03 PM
zuiko407
post Mar 23 2013, 07:48 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 23 2013, 06:42 PM)
Yep. Just bought a unit at e-tiara for 410K yesterday.

Now with 2 props in my belt...I hope my own prediction won't come true....biggrin.gif, but who knows, eh?
*
Analysis
There are plenty of upscale developments in the area. Just beside e-Tiara there is Saujana Residency that comprises of 4 blocks of 10-storey serviced suites. Next to Saujana Residency is Empire Subang, an upscale mixed development.

In addition, there is another serviced suite directly next to e-Tiara called Casa Tiara, which comprises of 644 units. There is also Subang Olives project which compromises of serviced apartments, a hotel and an office building.

There is also a problem with parking lots, which residents that have more than 2 cars have to park their cars outside the compound, which seems to be impossible in near future. There is very limited roadside area space in front of the building, that residents have to fight with other residents from other condominiums, as well as workers around the area.

Furthermore, units facing the highway not only have to endure noise from the traffic, but also the passing trains. Worst of all, there are high-tension cables running parallel to the road. In addition, there are much too many students living around the area due to the close proximity to colleges.

Traffic congestion is a huge problem in SS16. Even though the interchange from the Federal highway has been developed to cater the residents in the area, it does not seem capable enough to handle more congestion in the near future.
SUStat3179
post Mar 23 2013, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(zuiko407 @ Mar 23 2013, 07:46 PM)
Omg!
U bought the 600sf
U became next greater fool!
Launch price 230k only
U expect 1k psf in future?
tongue.gif
*
Oh noes....end of the world...I am going to jump of 14th floor already. biggrin.gif


SUStat3179
post Mar 23 2013, 08:26 PM

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QUOTE(zuiko407 @ Mar 23 2013, 07:48 PM)
Analysis
There are plenty of upscale developments in the area. Just beside e-Tiara there is Saujana Residency that comprises of 4 blocks of 10-storey serviced suites. Next to Saujana Residency is Empire Subang, an upscale mixed development.

In addition, there is another serviced suite directly next to e-Tiara called Casa Tiara, which comprises of 644 units. There is also Subang Olives project which compromises of serviced apartments, a hotel and an office building.

There is also a problem with parking lots, which residents that have more than 2 cars have to park their cars outside the compound, which seems to be impossible in near future. There is very limited roadside area space in front of the building, that residents have to fight with other residents from other condominiums, as well as workers around the area.

Furthermore, units facing the highway not only have to endure noise from the traffic, but also the passing trains. Worst of all, there are high-tension cables running parallel to the road. In addition, there are much too many students living around the area due to the close proximity to colleges.

Traffic congestion is a huge problem in SS16. Even though the interchange from the Federal highway has been developed to cater the residents in the area, it does not seem capable enough to handle more congestion in the near future.
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Cheh, you think you are the only guy who follows propwall izzit...
zuiko407
post Mar 23 2013, 08:29 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 23 2013, 08:26 PM)
Cheh, you think you are the only guy who follows propwall izzit...
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I'm not familiar with e-tiara, just copy and paste
SUStat3179
post Mar 23 2013, 08:37 PM

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QUOTE(zuiko407 @ Mar 23 2013, 08:29 PM)
I'm not familiar with e-tiara, just copy and paste
*
I bought there because I subang lang. Easier to manage the unit when rented.

Only concern is that loads more other pricier development in the pipeline.

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