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English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Bye Dirk Kuyt!

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MistakesMow
post May 15 2012, 12:38 PM

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Agree. Hunger for the team.

But the main problem is that those two show more hunger then 'some others'
prophetjul
post May 15 2012, 01:51 PM

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Where are the Nay-ers?
55 and counting and NONE posted to answr this:

If the next manager fails in the next season to win anything and fails to qualify for the CL, what will you suggest that FSG do?


Duke Red
post May 15 2012, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(vcj1992 @ May 15 2012, 08:28 AM)
To be honest anyone who watches his tactical analysis on Sky Sports you'll be very impressed as well and it really justifies why he deserves a chance. I hated him as a player for obvious reasons but I gain a lot of respect this season after he joined Sky Sports as a pundit.  I know it's just ultimately a TV show but he talks more practical and tactical side of football. For example, he spent 15 minutes analysing diving in EPL after Young's incident, such as how defenders' body shape should be and many sensible stuff, basically no 'talk cock' like those sitting on ESPN or even BBC Match of the Day. Last week he analysed England's previous tactical problems on Monday Night Football too. There are a lot more out there, it really shows how much of football knowledge this man has. Plus he's got UEFA coaching qualifications and he knows many of the big players in the squad. So I don't see why not.. Of course only time will justify whether it's a good appointment or not. We can just wish him best of luck.  biggrin.gif
I agree. I'm not a fan of Neville but I have to credit him for his analysis of the game. I think he's a pretty good pundit and those that I've asked have said the same thing. I hate him but I have to give him props for this. It's rare that players turn out to be good pundits. I've grown tried of listening to the likes of Steve McMahon and Paul Parker.
carloz28
post May 15 2012, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ May 15 2012, 01:51 PM)
Where are the Nay-ers?
55 and counting and NONE posted to answr this:

If the next manager fails in the next season to win anything and fails to qualify for the CL, what will you suggest that FSG do?
*
It depends. There are some aspects to look at:

1) Is the manager making significant improvement and depth to the squad by adding quality players via shrewd purchases? It doesn't have to be big name players, you can make an average player to his strengths, (like how Rafa turned Igor Biscan into a monster) if the coach is good enough.

Most important of all, is the manager making the players play for him?

2) Tactical prowess and knowledge. Have the manager demonstrated any game changing subs or tactical swap that enables a team to snatch a victory from jaws of defeat?

3) Does the managers encounter bad streak eg losing 6 games on the trot?

4) Does the manager isolate and sell his good players and bringing crap into the squad?

5) Does the manager in any event demonstrated his lostness and haplessness by rubbing chins and sucking ziplines when trailing behind opposition?

At the end of the season, results is all that matters. The manager can finish fifth place and not qualify for Champions League but as long as you are not too far off from the league winners, isn't that a respectable achievement for a first season? That I can live with.

Look at things objectively. Look that the table standings.

People always think we are bashing King Kenny for no reason. If you compare KK's first season with Evans, HOullier and Rafa's first season...KK's season is horrible indeed. If it's not for the Carling Cup victory, the axe would have fall on him already. None of the coach mentioned above had a bad first season worse than what Kenny is experiencing now.
prophetjul
post May 15 2012, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ May 15 2012, 02:26 PM)
It depends. There are some aspects to look at:

1) Is the manager making significant improvement and depth to the squad by adding quality players via shrewd purchases? It doesn't have to be big name players, you can make an average player to his strengths, (like how Rafa turned Igor Biscan into a monster) if the coach is good enough.

Most important of all, is the manager making the players play for him?

2) Tactical prowess and knowledge. Have the manager demonstrated any game changing subs or tactical swap that enables a team to snatch a victory from jaws of defeat?

3) Does the managers encounter bad streak eg losing 6 games on the trot?

4) Does the manager isolate and sell his good players and bringing crap into the squad?

5) Does the manager in any event demonstrated his lostness and haplessness by rubbing chins and sucking ziplines when trailing behind opposition?

At the end of the season, results is all that matters. The manager can finish fifth place and not qualify for Champions League but as long as you are not too far off from the league winners, isn't that a respectable achievement for a first season? That I can live with.

Look at things objectively. Look that the table standings.

People always think we are bashing King Kenny for no reason. If you compare KK's first season with Evans, HOullier and Rafa's first season...KK's season is horrible indeed. If it's not for the Carling Cup victory, the axe would have fall on him already. None of the coach mentioned above had a bad first season worse than what Kenny is experiencing now.
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Name that guy..................
TSsolstice818
post May 15 2012, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ May 15 2012, 02:26 PM)
It depends. There are some aspects to look at:

1) Is the manager making significant improvement and depth to the squad by adding quality players via shrewd purchases? It doesn't have to be big name players, you can make an average player to his strengths, (like how Rafa turned Igor Biscan into a monster) if the coach is good enough.

Most important of all, is the manager making the players play for him?

2) Tactical prowess and knowledge. Have the manager demonstrated any game changing subs or tactical swap that enables a team to snatch a victory from jaws of defeat?

3) Does the managers encounter bad streak eg losing 6 games on the trot?

4) Does the manager isolate and sell his good players and bringing crap into the squad?

5) Does the manager in any event demonstrated his lostness and haplessness by rubbing chins and sucking ziplines when trailing behind opposition?

At the end of the season, results is all that matters. The manager can finish fifth place and not qualify for Champions League but as long as you are not too far off from the league winners, isn't that a respectable achievement for a first season? That I can live with.

Look at things objectively. Look that the table standings.

People always think we are bashing King Kenny for no reason. If you compare KK's first season with Evans, HOullier and Rafa's first season...KK's season is horrible indeed. If it's not for the Carling Cup victory, the axe would have fall on him already. None of the coach mentioned above had a bad first season worse than what Kenny is experiencing now.
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You have to take into aspect like those years, we were elite teams with quality players. While now, we have not much of quality players and people starting to call us mid table team. You have to know that the premier league is getting tougher and tougher each year. these things count. I, for one , think that I am ok with both idea of changing/sticking with manager. I do question some of KD's starting line up though. Just to clear things that I m neither pro KD or anti kd.

Duke Red
post May 15 2012, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ May 15 2012, 01:51 PM)
Where are the Nay-ers?
55 and counting and NONE posted to answr this:

If the next manager fails in the next season to win anything and fails to qualify for the CL, what will you suggest that FSG do?
*
There is a very real possibility of missing out on a top 4 finish next year. We don't just have Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea to deal with anymore. Now we've got Man City and Spurs to contend with as well. Newcastle is an unknown because I'm not sure if they'll retain the services of Ba, Cisse and Cabaye who have been instrumental. They've made headlines and if the bigger sides come in, Mike Ashley may just be willing to cash in.

I've always said that managers don't always get it right at the first attempt but sometimes you only get one shot at it. It's why I sympathise with Villas Boas. You could see that he was trying to take the team forward by leaving the old guard like John Terry, Frank Lampard and Didier Drogba on the bench but by doing so, he made himself less popular amongst the players and the fans. I do subscribe to the notion that things will always get worse before they get better especially when you try to make radical changes from the start just as we have done by introducing new players who by and large have been admittedly disappointing and a new style of play. If Kenny does get the sack or if he leaves by "mutual consent", whoever steps into the hot seat will have the unenviable task of putting is in contention for a Champions League spot, with a limited budget. The big names will probably not want to tarnish their reputations hence why Robert Martinez seems to be the name on everyone' lips.
prophetjul
post May 15 2012, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ May 15 2012, 02:35 PM)
There is a very real possibility of missing out on a top 4 finish next year. We don't just have Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea to deal with anymore. Now we've got Man City and Spurs to contend with as well. Newcastle is an unknown because I'm not sure if they'll retain the services of Ba, Cisse and Cabaye who have been instrumental. They've made headlines and if the bigger sides come in, Mike Ashley may just be willing to cash in.

I've always said that managers don't always get it right at the first attempt but sometimes you only get one shot at it. It's why I sympathise with Villas Boas. You could see that he was trying to take the team forward by leaving the old guard like John Terry, Frank Lampard and Didier Drogba on the bench but by doing so, he made himself less popular amongst the players and the fans. I do subscribe to the notion that things will always get worse before they get better especially when you try to make radical changes from the start just as we have done by introducing new players who by and large have been admittedly disappointing and a new style of play. If Kenny does get the sack or if he leaves by "mutual consent", whoever steps into the hot seat will have the unenviable task of putting is in contention for a Champions League spot, with a limited budget. The big names will probably not want to tarnish their reputations hence why Robert Martinez seems to be the name on everyone' lips.
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Aye.

Its the fast results mentality.

The worse that can happen with the new bloke is that the team does no better. Then what do ya do?

If we get Martinez to replace Kenny, i will be sheddiing bucket loads................Another Woy possibilty.
leftist
post May 15 2012, 02:42 PM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ May 15 2012, 02:34 PM)
You have to take into aspect like those years, we were elite teams with quality players. While now, we have not much of quality players and people starting to call us mid table team. You have to know that the premier league is getting tougher and tougher each year. these things count. I, for one , think that I am ok with both idea of changing/sticking with manager. I do question some of KD's starting line up though. Just to clear things that I m neither pro KD or anti kd.
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plus those years man. city is not like what they are now...add to that spurs & newcastle..and u will know that its harder these days than before..and during Rafa 1st season, we're fifth in the league!

This post has been edited by leftist: May 15 2012, 02:43 PM
carloz28
post May 15 2012, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ May 15 2012, 02:34 PM)
You have to take into aspect like those years, we were elite teams with quality players. While now, we have not much of quality players and people starting to call us mid table team. You have to know that the premier league is getting tougher and tougher each year. these things count. I, for one , think that I am ok with both idea of changing/sticking with manager. I do question some of KD's starting line up though. Just to clear things that I m neither pro KD or anti kd.
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I disagree with your opinion. I always thought we have good quality players in our squad but somehow the players aren't playing for King Kenny.

Andy Carroll was doing well for Newscastle before joining us, eventhough I don't believe he's worth that much. He has shown lots of improvement and hunger in that last few games. If he keeps on doing that, he will convert me into a believer.

Jordan Henderson, wasn't he an English youth team captain before? Again was showing lots of promise in Sunderland but not in Liverpool shirt!

Stuart Downing (Rotuham's favorite player) is a seasoned EPL veteran and natural winger? Played well for Boro and Villa but not in Liverpool shirt again!

Charlie Adam - carried the whole Blackpool team 2 seasons ago.

So, Players letting him down or the coach is failing in his job?
Duke Red
post May 15 2012, 02:46 PM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ May 15 2012, 02:26 PM)
1) Is the manager making significant improvement and depth to the squad by adding quality players via shrewd purchases? It doesn't have to be big name players, you can make an average player to his strengths, (like how Rafa turned Igor Biscan into a monster) if the coach is good enough.


The Biscan fix was obvious to all except Houllier who thought he made a decent centreback when his natural position was in midfield. Rafa played him in place of the injured Steven Gerrard against Bayern Leverkusen and voila!

QUOTE(carloz28 @ May 15 2012, 02:26 PM)
People always think we are bashing King Kenny for no reason. If you compare KK's first season with Evans, HOullier and Rafa's first season...KK's season is horrible indeed. If it's not for the Carling Cup victory, the axe would have fall on him already. None of the coach mentioned above had a bad first season worse than what Kenny is experiencing now.
*
There are other some commonalities though. In his first season, Rafa's Reds finished 37 points behind eventual winners Chelsea. This season, we've finished 37 points behind Man City. In his first season Houllier finished a more respectable 25 points behind but we ended up in 7th, in what was a closely contested season as Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea lost less then 4 games.

Another interesting point to note is that in their first full season's in charge, Rafa, Houllier and Kenny have all lost 14 matches.


Added on May 15, 2012, 2:55 pm
QUOTE(prophetjul @ May 15 2012, 02:40 PM)
If we get Martinez to replace Kenny, i will be sheddiing bucket loads................Another Woy possibilty.
*
I wouldn't go as far as to compare him to Roy Hodgson la. I mean Martinez is firstly more articulate in expressing his thoughts and opinions. His sides also play more enterprising and positive football. He has been credited with how Swansea play and Wigan do sometimes look a half decent side and proved in the last few games of the season that they can play and stand toe-to-toe against the big boys. If anything I think their defence let them down and Al-Habsi sees plenty of action. Hodgson in contrast plays flat, negative football and you get the sense that he plays not to lose rather than to win.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 15 2012, 02:55 PM
TSsolstice818
post May 15 2012, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ May 15 2012, 02:44 PM)
I disagree with your opinion. I always thought we have good quality players in our squad but somehow the players aren't playing for King Kenny.

Andy Carroll was doing well for Newscastle before joining us, eventhough I don't believe he's worth that much. He has shown lots of improvement and hunger in that last few games. If he keeps on doing that, he will convert me into a believer.

Jordan Henderson, wasn't he an English youth team captain before? Again was showing lots of promise in Sunderland but not in Liverpool shirt!

Stuart Downing (Rotuham's favorite player) is a seasoned EPL veteran and natural winger? Played well for Boro and Villa but not in Liverpool shirt again!

Charlie Adam - carried the whole Blackpool team 2 seasons ago.

So, Players letting him down or the coach is failing in his job?
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Let's be fair alright? True to certain extent, the boss pick the lineup. But on paper, we created enough chances. In this aspect, KD cannot be fault that the players prefer to hit the goalpost than into the net. Plus, the players also missed as much as 6-7 penalties this season. Whose fault is this? Again, KD can only do that much.

As for the point that each of the individuals mentioned above is classic star player in their own team, one only need to think that it is necessary for the players to take some time to gel together. Not everyone is a StevieG-Torres combo who clicked instantly. For now, it seems that after some time, Suarez and Carrol seems get pretty well playing together.

If you ask me, I would say, 30% KD's fault, 70% players fault. A coach can only do that much on the sidelines. At the end of the day, it's the players that need to deliver the goods on the pitch. If given chance, I m pretty sure KD would jump at the opportunity to take all those missed penalties himself. Unfortunately he cant... laugh.gif
Burningsunz
post May 15 2012, 04:05 PM

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Kuyt claims he is being forced out of Liverpool

Out of favour Dutch striker Dirk Kuyt has put Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish in a spot.

Kuyt claims he is being forced out by Dalglish.

He said: "Under this manager I don’t have the feeling any more that he will put me in the side every week.

“I’m under no illusion about playing every week. But I believe I am still good enough to play for Liverpool every week.

“My physical stats are better than ever before.”

The Dutch star slammed the rotation policy followed by Dalglish for his loss in form.

“Last season I was scoring goals all over the place. But this season the manager bought three players who all played in my position," he said referring to Luiz Suarez, Andy Carroll and Stewart Downing.

“In the rotation system he used, I never found my rhythm again and never felt my old self," he added after being kept on the bench for most of the season.

He made a plea to the Liverpool management to give him one final chance to bid farewell in style to the club he loved.


Man Utd boss Ferguson tells players to remember taunting Sunderland fans

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has told his players to remember the taunts of Sunderland fans on Sunday.

The celebrations of the Sunderland fans clearly left a bitter taste after Manchester City's shock title triumph.

"I am a winner," said Ferguson.

"When we lost the league to Leeds in 1992, the young players - Neville, Scholes, Giggs - came out that day and the Liverpool supporters were asking for their autographs. Then they (the supporters) were tearing the autographs up - I told the players to remember that.

"I said to those Sunderland fans who were cheering for City: 'Remember the day. We won't forget that. I am telling you'."
Max_07s
post May 15 2012, 04:10 PM

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aahh yess.... Sunderland fans did a poznan celebration after know man city win... smile.gif
ALeUNe
post May 15 2012, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ May 15 2012, 02:34 PM)
You have to take into aspect like those years, we were elite teams with quality players. While now, we have not much of quality players and people starting to call us mid table team. You have to know that the premier league is getting tougher and tougher each year. these things count. I, for one , think that I am ok with both idea of changing/sticking with manager. I do question some of KD's starting line up though. Just to clear things that I m neither pro KD or anti kd.
*
You raised another issue. King Kenny inherited a better team.
Who screwed it up?
Rotuham
post May 15 2012, 04:18 PM

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What's kenny's fault?

1)Narrowing his options to british players which has become irrelevant since early 90's.

2)Practising favouritism with charlie adam.

3)Failed plan to play henderson on the right wing ala ray houghton

4)Playing negative formation in the league too much. The 5-4-1 against stoke at anfield and the failed 4-5-1 formation with suarez as lone striker is a sight many times this season.

5)Blaming luck all the time instead of trying a different approach in tactics and training
''We'll keep doing what we have been doing all these and we'll get there with a wee bit of luck''-familiar mantra throughout the season.

6)Insistence to play players on poor form and low in confidence.Charlie adam,stewart downing and henderson are undroppable.You can include reina and carragher if you like.

7)Failure to give the likes of kelly,doni and maxi time to play when he always talks about squad depth.

8) The most important of all-failure to learn from most of the mistakes above by the end of the season.

This post has been edited by Rotuham: May 15 2012, 04:19 PM
TSsolstice818
post May 15 2012, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ May 15 2012, 04:14 PM)
You raised another issue. King Kenny inherited a better team.
Who screwed it up?
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I dont recall a side having Konchesky, Poulsen being a better side. When KD stepped in, Torres wanted to leave. Aquilani was already on loan... Jovanovich isn't his oldself...So, nope, I dont recall that being a better team than now.
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post May 15 2012, 04:43 PM

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led_zep_freak
post May 15 2012, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(Rotuham @ May 15 2012, 04:18 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Instead of you telling us Kenny's fault - in which you have presented your case for the 100th time - how about you tell us what Kenny has done right all season?

Honestly, I find a few of your points overly negative and could pick out a few flaws in your argument but humor me for awhile with my question above. I'm sure you can find a few good points unless you truly believe that he has screwed everything up... which incidentally means that he's no better than Roy.

TSsolstice818
post May 15 2012, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(Rotuham @ May 15 2012, 04:18 PM)
What's kenny's fault?

1)Narrowing his options to british players which has become irrelevant since early 90's.

Someone has to do it either way when the HG system come into force. KD took a bold move in implementing it first and now he gets the blame? Ouch

2)Practising favouritism with charlie adam.
Do tell me who else can we play in the middle with Gerrard out most of the time. Maxi playing in middle of the park? You must be kidding me. Henderson? We need a midfield general and being a general, you need experience. The prospect of Henderson and Spearing just wont work especially with Spearing so mistakes prone. And dont mention Shelvey, he was on loan before Adam got injured.

3)Failed plan to play henderson on the right wing ala ray houghton
Reminds me of those days Carra played everywhere from DM, RB to CB. Makes him a better player. Gerrard himself, played as DM, CM, RW, and even RB during early days too. At the end of the day, he is better at AM. All these switch helps to discover the best potential of the players. Versatility is also vital. See Valencia, Ferguson played him as RB!

4)Playing negative formation in the league too much. The 5-4-1 against stoke at anfield and the failed 4-5-1 formation with suarez as lone striker is a sight many times this season.

Argh, this...I mentioned before. People are forgetful. Isn't that the lineup, we played with 2 wingbacks the previous season where we whips in tonnes of goals? More strikers doesn't guaranteed you goals.Facts.

5)Blaming luck all the time instead of trying a different approach in tactics and training
''We'll keep doing what we have been doing all these and we'll get there with a wee bit of luck''-familiar mantra throughout the season.

Probably his management style? Of cos it will be stupid of him to bash the players in public? Eg: STUPID REINA FOR CONCEDING SO MUCH? Makes sense, no?

6)Insistence to play players on poor form and low in confidence.Charlie adam,stewart downing and henderson are undroppable.You can include reina and carragher if you like.
This I have to agree with you. He doesnt seem to trust the youngsters too much. Not sure why.

7)Failure to give the likes of kelly,doni and maxi time to play when he always talks about squad depth.
Kelly part is a bit hard isn't it especially when Glenny played pretty well throughout the season albeit one stupid backpass the other day. Doni doesnt grab his chances well when he was given one. No one but himself to blame. Maxi, hmm, not sure about him. His form seems on and off when he is on field. One thing disgust me about him is he tends to drop/fall at slightest touches in the penalty box. I however agree that he deserves more playtime.

8) The most important of all-failure to learn from most of the mistakes above by the end of the season.

I thought he learned? At least we din see spearing now. laugh.gif
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