i think the poll at this point of time shows 50 persons saying Kenny is not good enough and should leave.
Perhaps they can come up with some name to replace Kenny.
And asnwer the question of
If the next manager fails in the next season to win anything and fails to qualify for the CL, what will you suggest that FSG do?
QUOTE
Quote from: Z e u s on Today at 02:49:04 AM
If we get rid of our manager, our legend after one full season The Liverpool Way of giving managers time, patience and full support is pretty much dead.
The words YNWA also becoming meaningless really.
Added on May 15, 2012, 10:18 am
QUOTE(vcj1992 @ May 15 2012, 08:28 AM)
Added on May 15, 2012, 8:30 amSomething interesting.. Steve Clarke with the Fenway Group bosses watching baseball in Boston.. I wonder why I don't see Kenny..
See the space next to JHenry? Kenny went to the weewee room......
This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 15 2012, 10:18 AM
1) Is the manager making significant improvement and depth to the squad by adding quality players via shrewd purchases? It doesn't have to be big name players, you can make an average player to his strengths, (like how Rafa turned Igor Biscan into a monster) if the coach is good enough.
Most important of all, is the manager making the players play for him?
2) Tactical prowess and knowledge. Have the manager demonstrated any game changing subs or tactical swap that enables a team to snatch a victory from jaws of defeat?
3) Does the managers encounter bad streak eg losing 6 games on the trot?
4) Does the manager isolate and sell his good players and bringing crap into the squad?
5) Does the manager in any event demonstrated his lostness and haplessness by rubbing chins and sucking ziplines when trailing behind opposition?
At the end of the season, results is all that matters. The manager can finish fifth place and not qualify for Champions League but as long as you are not too far off from the league winners, isn't that a respectable achievement for a first season? That I can live with.
Look at things objectively. Look that the table standings.
People always think we are bashing King Kenny for no reason. If you compare KK's first season with Evans, HOullier and Rafa's first season...KK's season is horrible indeed. If it's not for the Carling Cup victory, the axe would have fall on him already. None of the coach mentioned above had a bad first season worse than what Kenny is experiencing now.
There is a very real possibility of missing out on a top 4 finish next year. We don't just have Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea to deal with anymore. Now we've got Man City and Spurs to contend with as well. Newcastle is an unknown because I'm not sure if they'll retain the services of Ba, Cisse and Cabaye who have been instrumental. They've made headlines and if the bigger sides come in, Mike Ashley may just be willing to cash in.
I've always said that managers don't always get it right at the first attempt but sometimes you only get one shot at it. It's why I sympathise with Villas Boas. You could see that he was trying to take the team forward by leaving the old guard like John Terry, Frank Lampard and Didier Drogba on the bench but by doing so, he made himself less popular amongst the players and the fans. I do subscribe to the notion that things will always get worse before they get better especially when you try to make radical changes from the start just as we have done by introducing new players who by and large have been admittedly disappointing and a new style of play. If Kenny does get the sack or if he leaves by "mutual consent", whoever steps into the hot seat will have the unenviable task of putting is in contention for a Champions League spot, with a limited budget. The big names will probably not want to tarnish their reputations hence why Robert Martinez seems to be the name on everyone' lips.
Aye.
Its the fast results mentality.
The worse that can happen with the new bloke is that the team does no better. Then what do ya do?
If we get Martinez to replace Kenny, i will be sheddiing bucket loads................Another Woy possibilty.
QUOTE(Rotuham @ May 15 2012, 04:18 PM) What's kenny's fault?
1)Narrowing his options to british players which has become irrelevant since early 90's. Someone has to do it either way when the HG system come into force. KD took a bold move in implementing it first and now he gets the blame? Ouch
2)Practising favouritism with charlie adam. Do tell me who else can we play in the middle with Gerrard out most of the time. Maxi playing in middle of the park? You must be kidding me. Henderson? We need a midfield general and being a general, you need experience. The prospect of Henderson and Spearing just wont work especially with Spearing so mistakes prone. And dont mention Shelvey, he was on loan before Adam got injured.
3)Failed plan to play henderson on the right wing ala ray houghton Reminds me of those days Carra played everywhere from DM, RB to CB. Makes him a better player. Gerrard himself, played as DM, CM, RW, and even RB during early days too. At the end of the day, he is better at AM. All these switch helps to discover the best potential of the players. Versatility is also vital. See Valencia, Ferguson played him as RB!
4)Playing negative formation in the league too much. The 5-4-1 against stoke at anfield and the failed 4-5-1 formation with suarez as lone striker is a sight many times this season. Argh, this...I mentioned before. People are forgetful. Isn't that the lineup, we played with 2 wingbacks the previous season where we whips in tonnes of goals? More strikers doesn't guaranteed you goals.Facts.
5)Blaming luck all the time instead of trying a different approach in tactics and training ''We'll keep doing what we have been doing all these and we'll get there with a wee bit of luck''-familiar mantra throughout the season. Probably his management style? Of cos it will be stupid of him to bash the players in public? Eg: STUPID REINA FOR CONCEDING SO MUCH? Makes sense, no? 6)Insistence to play players on poor form and low in confidence.Charlie adam,stewart downing and henderson are undroppable.You can include reina and carragher if you like. This I have to agree with you. He doesnt seem to trust the youngsters too much. Not sure why.
7)Failure to give the likes of kelly,doni and maxi time to play when he always talks about squad depth. Kelly part is a bit hard isn't it especially when Glenny played pretty well throughout the season albeit one stupid backpass the other day. Doni doesnt grab his chances well when he was given one. No one but himself to blame. Maxi, hmm, not sure about him. His form seems on and off when he is on field. One thing disgust me about him is he tends to drop/fall at slightest touches in the penalty box. I however agree that he deserves more playtime.
8) The most important of all-failure to learn from most of the mistakes above by the end of the season. I thought he learned? At least we din see spearing now.
Good replies.
Its also silly to mention favourtism with Adam. Is he suppose to buy the player and sit him on the bench? He did play pretty well with Lucas. Then Rotu would be slagging him for victimisation like that point 7. In a first season. a coach will be trying to suss out his players. Aferall he would not know them that well. You would expect lotsa travailing in such a transition season. However having said that, we did not expect such a roller coaster of a season, and for it to end that badly.
The positives:
a) We played very good football at times. But failed to score inspite of dominating even top 4 teams.
b) We hit the poverbial woodwork more than 30 times this season! Thats says something about our good play BUT for Lady Luck smiling, we would be up there. Kenny should have paid Lady Luck.
c) Bad Season started off with i) Lucas longterm injury ii) Stevie and Agger's injuries iii) Carroll lack of fitness iv) Than the fiasco with Suarez
d) Additon: Oh...we are back in Europe*
If your spine has been thrown out of the door, surely the team will suffer. And suffer it did. Experimentation came in. Some worked, some did not. Its in transistion.
My only case with Kenny was that he integrated too many NEW players into his team of last season too soon, too fast.
So my question to those Nay-ers again:
What do you suggest to FSG if the new manager fails in his first season?
This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 16 2012, 08:13 AM
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Sounds much more like excuses than positives apart from the first one
Before i answer your question since i am Nay-er,modern fan,not ''true fan''
What makes you think in the first place that the manager will fail?
To you its always an excuse. To me, those are very good signs. i would be very worried if the team was lackasidial, defensive, concervative and Suarez screaming to leave. Add to that, Carroll is showing signs that we may all be wrong about him price aside. Add to that we are back in Europe.
Modern fan alrite, who know squat about the Liverpool way or Kenny Dalglish.
Thats a prognosis/sugeestion......i am eagar to see what you would suggest FSG do in that scenario as a MODERN fan.
Yup i should answer to bellends like you who take the holier than thou stance. You people are like children throwing tantrums.you won't support if kenny is not the manager.
Besides,you don't have to talk about carroll to me.I have been supporting him all these while when others were shouting for him to be sold. I wonder where your liverpool way went when everyone called for roy to be sacked
Ohhh Bellend...name calling now? ...... holier? Whats religion gotta do with this?
i must having my second childhood........ at 50
For yer HOLY self info, i didnt call for woy to be sacked....
Dont mean to butt in but you compared Roy's relegation days with Kenny's 8th place. That shows how insightful you are....
In case you forget, we was 17th once when Woy in charge....
AND he called me a BELL-end.......
Added on May 16, 2012, 9:26 am
QUOTE(leftist @ May 16 2012, 09:02 AM)
in la liga the only team that challenge for league title is barca & real..wayyyyy different in EPL...at least FOUR teams can challenge the title..its no surprise u can get UCL place much easier in la liga than in EPL
Methinks B Dortman is rather more impressive....ttwo POLES as strikers! WOW! i am impressed!
This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 16 2012, 09:26 AM
If we use 2012 form against Woy, it was no better. At least Woy only in charge for 6 months, KD already in charge for 1 year and that is inexcusable for me. Blame luck or whatever, 2012 was the reason I dont support KD anymore
If the next manager fails in the next season to win anything and fails to qualify for the CL, what will you suggest that FSG do?
Added on May 16, 2012, 9:53 am
QUOTE(leftist @ May 16 2012, 09:51 AM)
yup..dortmund was impressive!..but i'm more impressed in Montpellier...check out where they were last season
Montpelleir maybe a flash in the pan.....
BUT Dortmund is two years running now..........with POLESKIs a s strikers! Another WOW!
This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 16 2012, 09:53 AM
Sad day indeed. Sad time ahead, But then whatdayou expect from YANKees?
They are FSG Incorporated. They arent Liverpool FC and they will NEVER be.
Sad day not because Kenny has been sacked, But rather Liverpool will never be the same again. The soul of Shanks has been ripped out. The foundations of the legend of Liverpool FC has been dismantled.
Rose tinted we maybe, but we are Liverpool FC, not FSG FC.
we fans too need to embrace the true colors of the modern business football. it's business, business. Not that we need to sell our soul but realise the fact certain things cannot be left just on pure sentiments. hate it, feel ambivalent, FSG as what ian ayre did mentioned, ROI.
The devils, ManU realised this aeons ago & capitalised it quickly. much has been said of their fans, though there is a certain envious on how they managed to build itself into the the biggest football business. sure some of them may remind of the debt glazers has put in. turn around, the accounting figures on how much the football club rakes, even Real Madrid is only second to them. <comments above are only in regard to their ka-chingness, please some lfc fans don't read this & turn it into, "u might as well go support ManU"
Thats the point...its buisness unless you are owned by the russian mafia or an oil sheik. Thats why the soul is gone.
Its easy to support success. Its not so to walk through storms........
Added on May 17, 2012, 7:32 am
QUOTE(DarkNite @ May 17 2012, 07:30 AM)
I guess many still are unable to realized the difference between KD & Club.
Guess many are still unable and probably never be able to realise the Liverpool way..
This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 17 2012, 07:33 AM
i) Who comes in? ii) Which reputed manager will wanna come into a scking club? iii) How much money will said person BE GIVEN to build a squad? iv) How many triumphs will he need in his first season to be allowed/good enough for a second? iv) If the next manager fails in the next season to win anything and fails to qualify for the CL, will FSG sack again?
Added on May 17, 2012, 7:51 am
QUOTE
FSG have now sacked everyone but the tea lady and she's been charged with a 3 year progression to making tea so freakin weak it makes milk look like David Dickinson's brow.
This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 17 2012, 07:51 AM
Where did you go when things went wrong for you, when the knives came out for you? Where did you go? All you needed was a friend You just have to ask and then.......
you don't have to have the solution, you've got to invest in the problem, and don't go hoping for a miracle. All this will fade away so i'm coming home i'm coming home.
What did you learn, locked away all on your own, chance and your head all blown What did you learn, It was unfortunate, you missed you chance to find out that
i'm coming home but just for a short while.
Cheers Kenny. YNWA
Added on May 17, 2012, 8:01 amFollowing todays news, Spirit Of Shankly have released the following statement:
FSG: We need direction
We find ourselves once again experiencing another summer where talk centres around off the pitch decisions instead of footballing matters. The position of manager at Liverpool Football Club is one that deserves huge respect. It deserves all the resources of Liverpool Football Club to be put at the manager's disposal to make the Club as successful as possible. Today, we are once again in a position where this is not happening. At this moment in time, we have no Manager, no Director of Communications, no Director of Football, no Commercial Director and no ownership presence this side of the Atlantic, a situation compounded by the continued failure to appoint a Chief Executive.
There are also ongoing questions around the lack of a stadium solution. Recent decisions at Liverpool Football Club have led to more questions than they have answered. Today's decision does exactly the same. Many supporters will be asking just what exactly is LFC's strategy for the future. We would expect those in charge at LFC to address this situation urgently in a manner befitting of the Club's history and tradition to allow Liverpool Football Club to move forward. We would also expect those charged with moving the Club forward to engage in meaningful dialogue with supporters, something promised to us in those early meetings with Mr Henry and Mr Werner, but which is yet to materialise.
Think FSG cares? Think again...i think FSG think we fans are mupppets.....
Added on May 17, 2012, 8:12 am
Kenny Dalglish farewell: no more excuses for John W Henry at Liverpool
One wonders what will happen to Kenny Dalglish's successor should Liverpool endure another tough season outside the top four of the Premier League
Andy Hunter
The wheel has turned full circle for John W Henry at Liverpool. His game-plan to gain control of the club was formulated at the London offices of the law firm Slaughter and May and, 19 months on, slaughter in May has cleared the way for Fenway Sports Group to implement its Anfield vision. Having added Kenny Dalglish to its cull, the demand will be intense upon Liverpool's owners to finally demonstrate they possess one.
Dalglish has gone, prematurely in these eyes, following a season that encapsulated the complexities facing FSG in its decision over the manager's position. The return on its £120m investment in new players in the Premier League was clearly unacceptable and Liverpool are at a tipping point as Financial Fair Play draws near while their rivals head into the distance.
Liverpool's former manager was often justified in lamenting misfortune in front of goal and lauding a performance level that was infrequently reflected in results, but an eighth-place finish – an 18-year low – reflected a campaign lacking in consistency and cohesion from players and manager alike. The club's first piece of silverware for six years, with the Carling Cup followed by an FA Cup final appearance, delivered the counter-argument for Dalglish's first full season back in charge and Liverpool's most celebrated moments since 2008-09.
"We are here to win," said Henry on the day his company, then New England Sports Ventures, wrestled the club from the destructive grip of Tom Hicks and George Gillett. It would have been more accurate to add the caveat "but challenging for fourth place is more important". One wonders what will happen to Dalglish's successor should Liverpool finish next season closer to the top four but trophyless.
Liverpool's league campaign disintegrated when Robin van Persie's stoppage-time winner for Arsenal at Anfield on 3 March – the week after the Carling Cup had been claimed on penalties against Cardiff City – effectively put Champions League qualification out of reach.
Subsequent defeats by Queens Park Rangers, Wigan Athletic, Roy Hodgson's West Bromwich Albion, Fulham and finally Swansea City were no way to convince FSG that recovery was inevitable next season.
It was in the transfer market where the owner's faith in Dalglish first wavered. Liverpool's style improved markedly under the 61-year-old and the fractured mess he inherited not only from Hodgson, with the club four points above the relegation zone when he accepted Henry's SOS while in Bahrain on a cruise, but from a previous ownership that had fundamentally weakened the squad, places this season into perspective. It should also have afforded Dalglish an extra year to demonstrate that Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Jordan Henderson, José Enrique and Charlie Adam – failures to a man during their debut seasons on Merseyside, despite Carroll's late flourish – have the mentality and quality required.
An outlay of almost £90m on that quintet is impossible to justify. Damien Comolli paid with his job as director of football having negotiated the transfer fees. As Dalglish admitted on the day Comolli was sacked, he was the one who identified the targets. The manager was now vulnerable. His replacement will not have the same funds available to construct a Champions League challenge and, Luis Suárez aside, there are few profits to be made with the current squad. If there was risk in retaining Dalglish for the task of rejoining the European elite it is outweighed by the necessity to start all over again with lesser funds and a fourth manager in four seasons.
Dalglish restored stability and dispelled the theory he had been out of the game too long before signing a three-year deal as Hodgson's replacement last May. His handling of Suárez's eight-match ban for racially abusing Patrice Evra in October, however, was archaic and inflamed the controversy. It is sad that a generation who never witnessed Dalglish become Liverpool's greatest player and one of their finest managers have, among their own first-hand memories, the sight of the Scot wearing a Suárez T-shirt at Wigan and rounding on the interviewer who asked about the striker's refusal to shake Evra's hand at Old Trafford. None of this was a factor in his departure.
Ian Cotton, Liverpool's long-serving head of communications, lost his job last week but the truth is there was no one at Anfield in a position to take the lead from Dalglish. The vacuum at the head of Liverpool's operations on Merseyside is reflected in the contrast between Dalglish's two departures as manager. In 1991, it was of his own accord amid the trauma of Hillsborough and at a hastily convened press conference where he was flanked by the chairman Noel White and peerless chief executive Peter Robinson. Today it is against his wishes, with Liverpool's chairman, Tom Werner, resident in the United States and with no chief executive employed by the club.
FSG was welcomed upon arrival at Liverpool not simply on the basis it had ousted Hicks and Gillett and removed the imminent threat of administration. Henry's considered nature and steely ambition, Werner's dynamism and the obvious enthusiasm at FSG for restoring Liverpool's fortunes as it had the Boston Red Sox fuelled the sense of a fresh start.
They spoke of acquiring the best young talent and wanted a young, hungry coach to lead the long-term project of leading Liverpool back into the Champions League and into title contention. The decision to dispense with Hodgson had to be taken and, in fairness to FSG, its plans were then complicated by Dalglish's immediate impact and the unifying effect the Anfield legend had on a club at war with itself. Nineteen months on, however, and just under two weeks before the transfer window reopens, Liverpool have no manager, no director of football, no chief executive, no head of communications and still no decision on a new stadium.
The boldest judgment of recent times on Liverpool's future has come from Lord Justice Floyd at the high court in October 2010, and not from the men he sold the club to. That changed today. Having sacked a club icon, a man who recently claimed he would be for ever in Liverpool's debt, FSG is now free to implement the plans it always envisaged for Anfield. It has no more excuses. Liverpool's support, meanwhile, awaits evidence the owners' decisiveness is not merely restricted to firing employees.
This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 17 2012, 08:12 AM
Kenny Dalglish is gone but has Fenway taken on too much at Liverpool?
A lack of footballing knowhow has worsened the difficulties of long-distance ownership for the Americans Share10
David Conn
The Liverpool icon Kenny Dalglish's second stint as manager is summarily over and, with his departure, so too is the honeymoon period for the club's American owners, John W Henry's Fenway Sports Group. Liverpool seemed to promise such fun for them, and riches, when they were back-slapped in 19 months ago, paying off, as the price of buying the club, the £200m debt that the previous pair, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, borrowed to buy the club in the first place.
Yet now, and after a disappointing season in which expensively bought players failed to justify their outlandish fees, Liverpool supporters will demand a coherent plan from FSG, for a new manager, coaching structure, and some action on the stadium.
When they arrived, Roy Hodgson was struggling painfully, but it was FSG's decision to hire Dalglish on a permanent contract, and now they have sacked him. They appointed Damien Comolli as director of football on the recommendation of a baseball general manager, Billy Beane. Then they sacked Comolli too.
Liverpool overspent on players under FSG, the £35m for Andy Carroll the most staggering example, but Henry publicly endorsed that. The owners also supported Dalglish's protest at the FA's ruling that Luis Suárez had racially abused Patrice Evra, and Liverpool put out two dreadful, complaining official statements, so Dalglish's sacking has little to do with that. Last week the head of communications, Ian Cotton, who worked for 16 years at a club previously known for a dignified Liverpool way and then had to wrestle with the Suárez stance, departed too.
FSG have not only a manager's job to fill, but to design a whole structure, if they are to persist with a director of football, an appointment that is key, too. When they took over, the reports of their Boston Red Sox baseball team stewardship were glowing and had seductive parallels – there they restored a grand, fallen club to championship triumphs and its old ground, Fenway Park, sumptuously. But the discomforting truth, only dimly recognised here, is that Henry, Tom Werner and their fellow FSG investors bought Liverpool just as they were running into serious problems at the Red Sox for the first time. Last season the team failed to make the play-offs, a failure considered more catastrophic there than Liverpool fans feel about missing Champions League qualification. The Red Sox general manager, Theo Epstein, left and the coach, Terry Francona, was sacked.
Yet the replacement Red Sox coach, Bobby Valentine, is not faring any better; the Red Sox are bottom of their division, the fans unhappy, the press critical, which is all uncomfortable for the owners.
At Liverpool, you can overlay on FSG's Boston headaches four additional major difficulties. First, while they are lifelong baseball aficionados, they knew almost nothing about football before they bought one of its greatest institutions. Second, a much underrated difficulty in this Premier League experiment, the first ever in world football, is overseas ownership of clubs: FSG are busy people, a long way away, inconvenienced in daily business by time differences.
Third, Liverpool also have a stadium to sort out. The stated need that rich men must stand behind the cost of building a new stadium on Stanley Park was the sole reason Liverpool were sold in the first place, the former chairman David Moores making £90m for his shares. Yet FSG, having done a gorgeous job with Fenway Park, arrived saying they would look at redeveloping Anfield. So far they have spent 19 months scratching their heads over the same planning problems Moores's former chief executive, Rick Parry, found insurmountable.
Fourth is money. FSG were attracted by Premier League football's lucrative worldwide following, basing their calculations on Champions League qualification. The fans retain patience for FSG because they paid off the Hicks and Gillett debt and above that have lent Liverpool £30m interest free, freeing up money they then overspent. It appears, though, they do not intend to put more in, because Liverpool's accounts state they organised a £120m facility to borrow money from banks.
With expensive signings of historic proportions, Dalglish now fired, much blood spilt on the carpets and no news yet on the stadium, the American owners' next moves have to be very much more sure-footed.
At this moment in time, we have no Manager, no Director of Communications, no Director of Football, no Commercial Director and no ownership presence this side of the Atlantic, a situation compounded by the continued failure to appoint a Chief Executive.
Understand that Steve Clarke is leaving as well.......
Pep. if he comes, give him 5 years. No less. Because it won't be about getting to CL again. Its about rebuilding the whole philosophy. Can the owners, media wait that long? don't think so...
AVB? good tactician maybe. Smart plans maybe. But complete failure in working with big names. What makes us think our players will be humble enough to listen to him?
Martinez and Brendan? Do they really have something better to offer as compared to KEnny? Do convince me.
Fat hopes....these Yankees are Nescafe FAST foodies people. They gave Kenny 3 years.........so what?
They Biz monkeys, not Liverpool FC.
I BET they are probably looking at ways..............
Yup, that's the thing now. Please no Martinez or Rodgers for me. If we're going to give them money, we would be better off continuing the building process under Kenny.
And which successful soundminded manager would risk coming to a club like FSG FC presently?
Yup, that's the problem, especially since they know any kind of failure, would result in sacking. And I don't think any players would really want to come to a club that switches managers every season because even their future at the club would always be uncertain, every season.
Aye
The players as well........
The existing players will be sniped aka Skrytel, Suarez, Agger, Reina, Lucas.......at least one or two will wanna leave especially SUAREZ
May 15 2012, 10:16 AM
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