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 Supplementation discussion and review thread V2, Give your opinion!

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alien9
post Jun 17 2012, 09:40 PM

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QUOTE(DT1 @ Jun 17 2012, 09:25 PM)
Come to think of it, which one would be more cost effective for consuming post workout,

amino acids + high gi carbs

or

protein blend + high gi carbs

I personally start consuming a protein blend mixed with milk before, and into my workout to give it the extra digestion time needed.

Now after some reading seems as though this might not be as effective as amino acids in stopping catabolism.

So having that in mind, would it more cost saving if amino acids are used instead, considering their efficacy.
*
I would say BCAA because if you look at leangains, you are going to be working out in fasted state (16 hours calorie fasting) and obviously, during that period, our muscle will start to breakdown and even into training, it will breakdown more as the is no protein source available in the body. So, it is highly recommended to consume maximum of 10g BCAA 5 to 15 minutes prior to workout in order to reduce muscle breakdown effect (catabolic effect).
DT1
post Jun 17 2012, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(alien9 @ Jun 17 2012, 09:40 PM)
I would say BCAA because if you look at leangains, you are going to be working out in fasted state (16 hours calorie fasting) and obviously, during that period, our muscle will start to breakdown and even into training, it will breakdown more as the is no protein source available in the body. So, it is highly recommended to consume maximum of 10g BCAA 5 to 15 minutes prior to workout in order to reduce muscle breakdown effect (catabolic effect).
*
I usually workout in the morning, but I consume a 700 kcal breakfast about 1.5 hours before.
The protein sources during breakfast are 1 cup of milk, 3 eggs, and 14g of protein blend.

Right before the workout, I take half a serving of another 14g protein blend mixed with 1 cup of milk.
The other half is slowly consumed during the workout itself.

(Followed by a solid meal one hour later)

Not sure if the entire combo is enough to stop catabolism.

This post has been edited by DT1: Jun 17 2012, 10:26 PM
Dagger69
post Jun 17 2012, 11:55 PM

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QUOTE(annoymous1234 @ Jun 17 2012, 09:18 PM)
yes i do workout. and i'll try to do as hard as possible.
btw i think i got some confuse, its whey not wheat  sweat.gif
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lol it would be epic if you really buy wheat. Anyway On whey..its a protein shake. No it will not make you gain weight.
annoymous1234
post Jun 17 2012, 11:58 PM

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QUOTE(Dagger69 @ Jun 17 2012, 11:55 PM)
lol it would be epic if you really buy wheat. Anyway On whey..its a protein shake. No it will not make you gain weight.
*
but it will help me gain muscle at least, right?
SUSDJJD
post Jun 18 2012, 12:10 AM

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QUOTE(DT1 @ Jun 17 2012, 09:07 PM)
Don't they work differently?
*
They do work differently.

But with a lot of bb supps you need to cut through the hype. For me personally, I saw little difference with creatine but leucine really gave me a huge boost in recovery and post workout appetite.


Added on June 18, 2012, 12:13 am
QUOTE(DT1 @ Jun 17 2012, 10:05 PM)
I usually workout in the morning, but I consume a 700 kcal breakfast about 1.5 hours before.
The protein sources during breakfast are 1 cup of milk, 3 eggs, and 14g of protein blend.

Right before the workout, I take half a serving of another 14g protein blend mixed with 1 cup of milk.
The other half is slowly consumed during the workout itself.

(Followed by a solid meal one hour later)

Not sure if the entire combo is enough to stop catabolism.
*
Should be enough.

Fears of catabolism are overblown. IMHO.

I trained for 3 years first thing in the am. With a breakfast of a PB sandwich and a pwo protein shake + carbs fuelling me until early lunch at 11 and never had issues with catabolism.

This post has been edited by DJJD: Jun 18 2012, 12:13 AM
alien9
post Jun 18 2012, 12:41 AM

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QUOTE(annoymous1234 @ Jun 17 2012, 11:58 PM)
but it will help me gain muscle at least, right?
*
If you consume enough protein daily and have calorie surplus, the answer will be yes.


Added on June 18, 2012, 12:42 am
QUOTE(DJJD @ Jun 18 2012, 12:10 AM)
They do work differently.

But with a lot of bb supps you need to cut through the hype. For me personally, I saw little difference with creatine but leucine really gave me a huge boost in recovery and post workout appetite.


Added on June 18, 2012, 12:13 am

Should be enough.

Fears of catabolism are overblown. IMHO.

I trained for 3 years first thing in the am. With a breakfast of a PB sandwich and a pwo protein shake + carbs fuelling me until early lunch at 11 and never had issues with catabolism.
*
What do you mean by issues with catabolism? Mind sharing with me?

This post has been edited by alien9: Jun 18 2012, 12:42 AM
DT1
post Jun 18 2012, 01:33 AM

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QUOTE(alien9 @ Jun 18 2012, 12:41 AM)
If you consume enough protein daily and have calorie surplus, the answer will be yes.


Added on June 18, 2012, 12:42 am
What do you mean by issues with catabolism? Mind sharing with me?
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It should mean that his was still seeing good growth.
DT1
post Jun 18 2012, 02:08 AM

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Got a PM from choon hon, I thought I should post it out here since it would benefit anyone who wanted to ask the same questions.

QUOTE
Hey, from what you said i need whey protein for pre and post workout? Any recommendations on which brand that is good?

One question though, im 170 cm but im only 60kg, dont i need to gain weight as well?

Sorry if i'm asking silly questions as i'm still a beginner .


Below was my reply, do correct me if there are inaccurate points, or where it needs reinforcement.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


DT1
post Jun 18 2012, 02:15 AM

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QUOTE(DJJD @ Jun 18 2012, 12:10 AM)
They do work differently.

But with a lot of bb supps you need to cut through the hype. For me personally, I saw little difference with creatine but leucine really gave me a huge boost in recovery and post workout appetite.
With creatine I suppose you mean you found little difference in size and strength/intensity?

The effect with leucine in terms of recovery I would understand as it's an amino acid.

QUOTE(DJJD @ Jun 18 2012, 12:10 AM)
Should be enough.

Fears of catabolism are overblown. IMHO.

I trained for 3 years first thing in the am. With a breakfast of a PB sandwich and a pwo protein shake + carbs fuelling me until early lunch at 11 and never had issues with catabolism.
*
Okay. Shouldn't be a problem for me then since you were seeing good gains with that!
alien9
post Jun 18 2012, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(DT1 @ Jun 17 2012, 10:05 PM)
I usually workout in the morning, but I consume a 700 kcal breakfast about 1.5 hours before.
The protein sources during breakfast are 1 cup of milk, 3 eggs, and 14g of protein blend.

Right before the workout, I take half a serving of another 14g protein blend mixed with 1 cup of milk.
The other half is slowly consumed during the workout itself.

(Followed by a solid meal one hour later)

Not sure if the entire combo is enough to stop catabolism.
*
That would be more than what leangains recommended and IMO that should be enough. The reason why the need to consume BCAA instead of protein blend, eggs, any protein source before lifting is that the need to workout in fasting condition.
SUSDJJD
post Jun 18 2012, 09:18 AM

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QUOTE(DT1 @ Jun 18 2012, 02:15 AM)
With creatine I suppose you mean you found little difference in size and strength/intensity?

The effect with leucine in terms of recovery I would understand as it's an amino acid.
*
Yeah.

With creatine:
Little change in terms of growth rate (eating more or less the same pre/post creatine).
No change in terms of strength (gains still slowed as expected since was nearing a "peak" over the 6-mth period I was taking creatine).

Maybe a little change in recovery? But definitely too little to be directly quantifiable to the creatine. So its hard to say.

Disclaimer: I try to eat plenty of red meat though - Pork (Cheap and good)/ Beef / Lamb whenever avail. so maybe that attributes to the lack of effect on me.

For our muslim forumers, creatine may be more useful especially if surviving on diet of chicken+fish since beef costs a lot. I couldn't say personally.

Also, I took egonutritions creatine - the cheapest brand. Maybe the import brands would be better due to being purer/other ingredients added? Can't say.


As always - with supplements its kind of a mix of arts and science.
alien9
post Jun 18 2012, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(DJJD @ Jun 18 2012, 09:18 AM)
Yeah.

With creatine:
Little change in terms of growth rate (eating more or less the same pre/post creatine).
No change in terms of strength (gains still slowed as expected since was nearing a "peak" over the 6-mth period I was taking creatine).

Maybe a little change in recovery? But definitely too little to be directly quantifiable to the creatine. So its hard to say.

Disclaimer: I try to eat plenty of red meat though - Pork (Cheap and good)/ Beef / Lamb whenever avail. so maybe that attributes to the lack of effect on me.

For our muslim forumers, creatine may be more useful especially if surviving on diet of chicken+fish since beef costs a lot. I couldn't say personally.

Also, I took egonutritions creatine - the cheapest brand. Maybe the import brands would be better due to being purer/other ingredients added? Can't say.
As always - with supplements its kind of a mix of arts and science.
*
You only tried one brand of creatine so far? Why don't you try others? Maybe ego creatine didn't work for you, maybe others will. I know that ego is creatine mono and creatine mono is creatine mono whatever the brand is but either they are using high quality of creatine (Creapure) or not will make the difference.
swks26
post Jun 18 2012, 10:47 AM

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Maybe try a different type of creatine?
Like Controlled Labs Green Magnitude, or the new MuscleTech Creacore.
But of course, it's more pricey $$.
SUSDJJD
post Jun 18 2012, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(swks26 @ Jun 18 2012, 10:47 AM)
Maybe try a different type of creatine?
Like Controlled Labs Green Magnitude, or the new MuscleTech Creacore.
But of course, it's more pricey $$.
*
I'd have to say I am little sceptical of it working for me after trying so far.

Of course I can afford Green Mag (and yes I've heard good reviews) but I think I don't really need it so far till the gains slow down.

My money better spent on the Animal Line - I like Animal Nitro, Flex and thinking to try UN EAA Nitro as well. smile.gif
alien9
post Jun 18 2012, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(DJJD @ Jun 18 2012, 01:23 PM)
I'd have to say I am little sceptical of it working for me after trying so far.

Of course I can afford Green Mag (and yes I've heard good reviews) but I think I don't really need it so far till the gains slow down.

My money better spent on the Animal Line - I like Animal Nitro, Flex and thinking to try UN EAA Nitro as well. smile.gif
*
What's the different between Animal Nitro and UN EAA? Both of them are Essential Amino Acids right? If you do like Animal products, why don't you tried Animal Creatine? And btw, where do you get your stock?
DT1
post Jun 18 2012, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(alien9 @ Jun 18 2012, 09:11 AM)
That would be more than what leangains recommended and IMO that should be enough. The reason why the need to consume BCAA instead of protein blend, eggs, any protein source before lifting is that the need to workout in fasting condition.
*
Thanks for the confirmation. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(DJJD @ Jun 18 2012, 09:18 AM)
Yeah.

With creatine:
Little change in terms of growth rate (eating more or less the same pre/post creatine).
No change in terms of strength (gains still slowed as expected since was nearing a "peak" over the 6-mth period I was taking creatine).

Maybe a little change in recovery? But definitely too little to be directly quantifiable to the creatine. So its hard to say.

Disclaimer: I try to eat plenty of red meat though - Pork (Cheap and good)/ Beef / Lamb whenever avail. so maybe that attributes to the lack of effect on me.

For our muslim forumers, creatine may be more useful especially if surviving on diet of chicken+fish since beef costs a lot. I couldn't say personally.

Also, I took egonutritions creatine - the cheapest brand. Maybe the import brands would be better due to being purer/other ingredients added? Can't say.
As always - with supplements its kind of a mix of arts and science.
*
Looks like you're already getting enough creatine through your high consumption of red meats. That could explain why you didn't notice any difference. And yeap, supplementation needs to be assessed based on individual needs, otherwise it'd just be a waste of money.

QUOTE(alien9 @ Jun 18 2012, 01:28 PM)
What's the different between Animal Nitro and UN EAA? Both of them are Essential Amino Acids right? If you do like Animal products, why don't you tried Animal Creatine? And btw, where do you get your stock?
*
I don't think he needs creatine anyway since he gets alot from his diet.
SUSDJJD
post Jun 18 2012, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(alien9 @ Jun 18 2012, 01:28 PM)
What's the different between Animal Nitro and UN EAA? Both of them are Essential Amino Acids right? If you do like Animal products, why don't you tried Animal Creatine? And btw, where do you get your stock?
*
Same but different. Sceptic in me thinks is part of a marketing ploy to sell one higher end "premium" product and another lower end. Hehe. tongue.gif

Anyways, if you believe the marketing:

Animal Nitro: Crafted pack containing not just EAA but also various other vitamins and minerals (kinda true though) in a perfect ratio to help the body grow. In pill form and no fuss cos you just take 1 packet per day.
UN EAA Stack: Just contains EAA (main ingredient of Nitro) but in budget form for lower cost to put into your shake.

Stock: Ordered 2 tubes of Nitro from EJI last time (give or take RM150 a tube at the time) to last me ard 6-9 mths.

EAA Stack: So far I've seen only sold by EGO but relatively reasonable just around RM110++ a pack.

You seem relatively new though, so I would not advise wasting too much on supplements. Best advice given to me on a workout forum (US-based) when I just started working out is train supp free except whey (and maybe creatine).

Then you would not attribute so much growth to supp and can actually track if you add a supplement (lets say Nitro) in and see if it works for you. If you take Nitro when you just start working out you will see gains that you may wrongly attribute to the supp, thus concluding that you will always need it forever and spend a ton of $$$ unnecessarily.
alien9
post Jun 18 2012, 06:26 PM

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QUOTE(DJJD @ Jun 18 2012, 01:42 PM)
Same but different. Sceptic in me thinks is part of a marketing ploy to sell one higher end "premium" product and another lower end. Hehe.  tongue.gif

Anyways, if you believe the marketing:

Animal Nitro: Crafted pack containing not just EAA but also various other vitamins and minerals (kinda true though) in a perfect ratio to help the body grow. In pill form and no fuss cos you just take 1 packet per day.
UN EAA Stack: Just contains EAA (main ingredient of Nitro) but in budget form for lower cost to put into your shake.

Stock: Ordered 2 tubes of Nitro from EJI last time (give or take RM150 a tube at the time) to last me ard 6-9 mths.

EAA Stack: So far I've seen only sold by EGO but relatively reasonable just around RM110++ a pack.

You seem relatively new though, so I would not advise wasting too much on supplements. Best advice given to me on a workout forum (US-based) when I just started working out is train supp free except whey (and maybe creatine).

Then you would not attribute so much growth to supp and can actually track if you add a supplement (lets say Nitro) in and see if it works for you. If you take Nitro when you just start working out you will see gains that you may wrongly attribute to the supp, thus concluding that you will always need it forever and spend a ton of $$$ unnecessarily.
*
Currently, I'm not using any supplements. Got all my protein intake from whole food. Tried BCAA because of leangains, tried OxyElite Pro to start up my weight loss journey and still managed to loss fat without it. Maybe I'll take creatine to help me in my cutting process.
mazer6446
post Jun 19 2012, 11:44 AM

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can u guys suggest me the best whey out there in the market?
i haveused nitro-tech,dymative,scivation, syhta-6 and newest one, myofusion prebiotic...
i have problem with myofusion, my stomach full of gases, fart a lot! daymmm!
DT1
post Jun 19 2012, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(mazer6446 @ Jun 19 2012, 11:44 AM)
can u guys suggest me the best whey out there in the market?
i haveused nitro-tech,dymative,scivation, syhta-6 and newest one, myofusion prebiotic...
i have problem with myofusion, my stomach full of gases, fart a lot! daymmm!
*
Are you looking based on function or taste? I am not familiar with brands, but coming from a functional ingredients point of view, if you're looking solely for post workout function (i.e. stop catabolism), whey isolate would be the best. If you're looking beyond whey, amino acids would do even better. Beyond that price range, you will be looking at peptides.

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