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 ㊕ ㊕(≧◡≦) ♠ ♠ ♠Proton Prevé V3♠ ♠ ♠(≧◡≦) ㊕ ㊕, ► Official Discussions for Proton Prevé

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dares
post Apr 7 2012, 09:41 PM

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Wah go out a few hours already 7 pages, summore all talking money. Feel so left out unsure.gif

QUOTE(ahsam1212 @ Apr 7 2012, 09:25 PM)
Overtaking without pedal to metal is just a joke. When u don't pedal to metal, ECU doesn't know your urgency to increase speed. How to overtake? It will be very dangerous. Overtaking at 4k rpm ? Pls tell me is a joke. What i mean here is that all this ECU car need to know your intention (input) to react to it (output). If only half throttle, speed will climb slowly. Full throttle will obviously be more effective than half throttle in this case. Common sense, no matter it's cvt, dsg, torque converter gbox, or a manual.
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Whats wrong with overtaking at 4k RPM? You mean it is too high or too low?
MrssV
post Apr 7 2012, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(dares @ Apr 7 2012, 09:41 PM)
Wah go out a few hours already 7 pages, summore all talking money. Feel so left out  unsure.gif
Whats wrong with overtaking at 4k RPM? You mean it is too high or too low?
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You don't say... I left for a day plus... had to go thru 30++ pages on the v2 and 7 pages on v3.

Anyone want to take a guess at what sort special edition that DSZ talking about? an R3 perhaps?
megat89
post Apr 7 2012, 09:46 PM

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QUOTE(ahsam1212 @ Apr 7 2012, 09:25 PM)
Overtaking without pedal to metal is just a joke. When u don't pedal to metal, ECU doesn't know your urgency to increase speed. How to overtake? It will be very dangerous. Overtaking at 4k rpm ? Pls tell me is a joke. What i mean here is that all this ECU car need to know your intention (input) to react to it (output). If only half throttle, speed will climb slowly. Full throttle will obviously be more effective than half throttle in this case. Common sense, no matter it's cvt, dsg, torque converter gbox, or a manual.
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agree with u..since the opening of the throttle body will be maxed out, means maximum air comes in, hence faster increase in rpm..
MrssV
post Apr 7 2012, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(megat89 @ Apr 7 2012, 09:46 PM)
agree with u..since the opening of the throttle body will be maxed out, means maximum air comes in, hence faster increase in rpm..
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Maybe what mat trying to say is, you don't need much effort to achieve 140-160kmh. Not that you don't have to floor the pedal to overtake.
Volfeed
post Apr 7 2012, 09:55 PM

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QUOTE(mat79 @ Apr 7 2012, 07:10 PM)
off topic, also sharing thought. After reading all the reviews on preve by media, i think that i notice, all saying the iafm+ cvt variant really loud in term of engine sound.

If u follow closely, they mentioned it loud when pedal to metal@at 5k rpm. Not only the engine sound but cvt whining also contribute to that.

The question is, do u need to pedal to metal to overtake driving cvt or even driving uphill or driving up to speed 140-160kmh?

The answer that i gain from my source, is no. Malaysian still new with cvt gbox even its already been around long time ago.

Driving a cvt is not the same as driving twin clutch, conv at n manual where to extract all the power and torque by pedal to metal.

By pedal to metal cvt, the full cvt mode change to 'slow sat mode' where u can see the rev counter climbing slowly to redline(not too slow, it like u r driving only 1 speed gbox, u can see the rev climbing), while in full cvt, the rev can jump to any rpm, depend on input from throttle.

When it reach highest rev, it will static, n of course, u will hear the sound really loud, like driving manual, first gear, rev to redline n never change to next gear.

Pedal to metal only apply in cvt if u need to reach its top most speed(km/h) which is rarely unless u want to test up what is the top speed of ur car or just suka suka.

For example, those who are driving iafm+ cvt, only need to rev around 2k rpm and below for town driving, n 2.5k-3k rpm highway driving, depend on speed u want to reach. If only u want to overtake@needed all the torque available, just pedal up to 4k rpm where the max torque available in engine. Max 85% of throttle input is needed coz beyond 85%,its enter the slow sat mode.

So, in daily or normal driving, balik kampung driving, conquer hilly route, climbing high places n etc,no need to rev beyond 4k rpm. Need better power, just slotted to L mode, it rev 20% higher than normal D mode, n throttle will be crispier n engine braking will be apparent.

Then, if u drive cvt like what it supposed to, then, the engine sound wont be bugging u too much.

Even if u want to gauge the century sprint timing, no need pedal to metal. Just rev up to 4k rpm only coz all torque is there. If u want to get faster timing, slot to L, then rev 4k rpm. While the others keep pedal to metal to reach century sprint n stress the engine to get there(means other 1.6 na with conv auto@manual), u just relaxing cruising at 4k without any jerk due to gear shifting.

Erm, it seems they really used 90kmh control env data for fc in cvt iafm+1.6,rather than target fc @90kmh as in flx 1.3. Coz the real data for flx 1.3 iafm+ cvt is 5.65 L/100km@90kmh, but they publish 6 L/100km based on target fc@90kmh. While mixed fc around 7.68L+-/100km

So, i think combine fc for iafm+1.6 cvt is around 8L+-/100km.

For cfe cvt, no need to comment coz all torque available at 2k rpm, n at 1.5k rpm, already has better torque than iafm+. Just my advice for cfe cvt owners,, try to control ur right foot, dont drive reaching 2k rpm in town driving if u want to extract to most fc for cfe.
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You're spot on. This is how I drive my Honda City IDSI and Exora Bold CFE. In normal condition, just need to maintain about 2100 RPM for EB, and 2600 RPM for IDSI to smoothly accelerate. To overtake, use the S or L mode. The surge is there. Especially for EB, the engine will scream when I floored the pedal, but the speed gain is so smal, comparatively. Malaysians are probably could not get used to drive with CVT. That's why Honda dropped it altogether and replaced with conventional AT for the new Honda City, I believe.
razkal
post Apr 7 2012, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(MrssV @ Apr 7 2012, 02:50 PM)
Maybe what mat trying to say is, you don't need much effort to achieve 140-160kmh. Not that you don't have to floor the pedal to overtake.
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I think what Mat is trying to say is every combination of engine and transmission have its own optimum point where you can extract the power hp and torque to make the car move. Therefore it is useless to floor the pedal as the engine has already reached its limit. You will not gain any extra power by doing that. Just extract all the power from its optimum point.

This post has been edited by razkal: Apr 7 2012, 10:10 PM
MrssV
post Apr 7 2012, 10:05 PM

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Added on April 7, 2012, 10:05 pm
QUOTE(razkal @ Apr 7 2012, 10:01 PM)
I think what Mat is trying to say is every engine and transmission have its own optimum point where you can extract the power hp and torque to make the car move. Therefore it is useless to floor the pedal as the engine has already reached its limit. You will not  gain any extra power by doing that. Just extract all the power from its optimum point.
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My bad. After reading his post once again, maybe you're indeed spot on. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by MrssV: Apr 7 2012, 10:05 PM
dares
post Apr 7 2012, 10:16 PM

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If for a conventional AT or MT or DCT drivetrain, yes flooring the pedal may work because the speed climbs with your RPM, and the faster your RPM climbs, tha faster your speed increases.

For a CVT, the RPM is almost independent of the speed (I say almost, because there are still fixed RPMs for cruising speeds), therefore let's say you mash the throttle and the RPM climb like mad, you will still see that your speed is just slowly catching up. In a CVT drivetrain, you want to keep your RPM at the peak of the torque curve, only then your speed will climb the fastest.

This is the advantage of a CVT system, you don't need to climb the entire RPM range (in other words, the entire torque curve) to gain speed, you just need to keep it at the RPM where the torque is maximum, in the Campro IAFM+, that's 4k RPM.
ahsam1212
post Apr 7 2012, 10:21 PM

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OK...I think when preve is out, owner can try a drag race 0-120 km/hr by using diff method to find out the answer. Whether pedal to medal or half throttle or whatever throttle position that says 4k rpm.
dares
post Apr 7 2012, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(ahsam1212 @ Apr 7 2012, 10:21 PM)
OK...I think when preve is out, owner can try a drag race 0-120 km/hr by using diff method to find out the answer. Whether pedal to medal or half throttle or whatever throttle position that says 4k rpm.
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No need to wait for Preve, if you just wanna test the 1.6 IAFM+ CVT variant (since we are talking about max torque @ 4k RPM), the Saga FLX SE shares the same powertrain and characteristics, minus the weight.

The CFE CVT variant reaches max torque at 2k RPM.
ahsam1212
post Apr 7 2012, 10:28 PM

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OK. Saga 1.6 cvt owner, go test it to prove which is a better method, 0 - 120km/hr. Pedal to metal or stick to your max torque at 4k rpm.

This post has been edited by ahsam1212: Apr 7 2012, 10:29 PM
razkal
post Apr 7 2012, 10:46 PM

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QUOTE(ahsam1212 @ Apr 7 2012, 03:21 PM)
OK...I think when preve is out, owner can try a drag race 0-120 km/hr by using diff method to find out the answer. Whether pedal to medal or half throttle or whatever throttle position that says 4k rpm.
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I dont understand why do you want to race using this car. It's not meant for racing. It's transmission and gearbox was designed for normal consumer use in Malaysian road although it was also tested oversea.

The characteristic of the car driving, accelaration, suspension etc had been designed so it will offer comfortable driving experience. Not like race car settings or sportsmode whatever.

That's why no point revving the engine so high pedal to metal to get the power, just extract the power from its optimal point, unless this car is satria neo S2000.

This post has been edited by razkal: Apr 7 2012, 10:49 PM
dares
post Apr 7 2012, 10:48 PM

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QUOTE(ahsam1212 @ Apr 7 2012, 10:28 PM)
OK. Saga 1.6 cvt owner, go test it to prove which is a better method, 0 - 120km/hr. Pedal to metal or stick to your max torque at 4k rpm.
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And what do I get in return? you stamp of approval? no thanks.

I am happy driving 90km/h @ 2k RPM and I have no incentive to risk life and limb to prove you wrong. If you like, just visit your nearest Proton showroom and ask for a test drive.

Furthermore, a 0-120kmh sprint is not the definitive indication of how well a car accelerate from a rolling start eg. overtaking, something I learned the hard way.
stinger82
post Apr 7 2012, 10:53 PM

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boy racer why buy preve? turbo+cvt = doh.gif

buy old honda civic, plonk in vtec la. can smoke new type R in sepang.

buy preve trying to pwn family sedan is kiddo.

i always saw ppl in proton 1 family drive at 180km/h. if they go, they make sure they do in 1 family, no one left behind. from satria to exora.


tanpanama
post Apr 7 2012, 10:56 PM

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QUOTE(ahsam1212 @ Apr 7 2012, 10:28 PM)
OK. Saga 1.6 cvt owner, go test it to prove which is a better method, 0 - 120km/hr. Pedal to metal or stick to your max torque at 4k rpm.
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i think it more to psychological rushing.... like some people rushing picit2 butang lif...u tekan byk kali pun kelajuan lif tetap sama...
so same like engine car la...
razkal
post Apr 7 2012, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(stinger82 @ Apr 7 2012, 03:53 PM)
boy racer why buy preve? turbo+cvt = doh.gif

buy old honda civic, plonk in vtec la. can smoke new type R in sepang.

buy preve trying to pwn family sedan is kiddo.

i always saw ppl in proton 1 family drive at 180km/h. if they go, they make sure they do in 1 family, no one left behind. from satria to exora.
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Lol. thats's funny. What you said is true. People buy car like proton, perodua, kancil H& T also not excluded than put turbo modded here and there.

The car chassis,suspension etc is not tuned for racing for god sake. If you really want to race buy la those high performance engine car BMW M5 ke? doh.gif

This post has been edited by razkal: Apr 7 2012, 10:59 PM
dares
post Apr 7 2012, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(tanpanama @ Apr 7 2012, 10:56 PM)
i think it more to psychological rushing.... like some people rushing picit2 butang lif...u tekan byk kali pun kelajuan lif tetap sama...
so same like engine car la...
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thumbup.gif
ahsam1212
post Apr 7 2012, 11:07 PM

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It's not psycho. Test to find out. Nothing is more solid than a proper test result. Can saga owner with cvt test it out? Get a friend to time your 0-120km/hr with both methods mentioned?

stargate8
post Apr 7 2012, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(mat79 @ Apr 7 2012, 07:16 PM)
and for stopping distance, why preve out brake all its benchmark competitors, look at preve disc size front n rear, it 15 inch disc, n check the others in b@c segments. Try to compare the size, evem for focus
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ya, some other car rear disc brake is smaller than 15".
preve both front n rear are 15" which is i like. rclxms.gif


Added on April 7, 2012, 11:16 pm
QUOTE(razkal @ Apr 7 2012, 10:01 PM)
I think what Mat is trying to say is every combination of engine and transmission have its own optimum point where you can extract the power hp and torque to make the car move. Therefore it is useless to floor the pedal as the engine has already reached its limit. You will not  gain any extra power by doing that. Just extract all the power from its optimum point.
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yup agree rclxms.gif

floor the pedal only drink more fuel.
see the chart, just maintain at the optimum RPM
understand the chart then you will understand the engine.

This post has been edited by stargate8: Apr 7 2012, 11:16 PM
arthur88
post Apr 7 2012, 11:27 PM

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normally how long to wait for second batch?

i plan to wait for review from first batch, the specs, the features, the fancy stuff, all very gooding, only one aspect left to be considered, the famous low quality of proton cars....

if the review is good, i straight go book preve 1.6L premium....in second batch...

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