may i noe y u want invest in PCIF initially? not other fund? objective?

I notice almost all china funds not only PM, but also other fund house not doing very well based on past records.

Hence, if ppl already bought this fund and dont want to lose money, I think only way is keep on DDI and buy more when if drops alot. Well.. to me, China funds will take longer to break even..

Lunchtime, while i'm in agreement with U that not all funds are ichiban / best thing since sliced bread, as an investor, i'd also look at different time lines, not just current to have better comparisons.
Example:
If i chose to check on PCIF:
1. From inception till now or end 2008 - performance sucks
2. from 23/01/2009 till now - low returns but not negative.

Thus, for an example depending on the entry/exit approach of an investor, if value averaging was done, although kinda miserable (PCIF), one may eek out some returns. Heheh - unsure ar, as i've no data on PCIF's divends and stuff. The only data i have are the NAVs attached.

Mind U, even the supposedly super duper PSmallCap, when viewed in end period of end 2008/early 2009 sucks to high heaven too and personally, my other Pru SmallCap fund sucked too during those end periods.

Just sharing a thought on different "end period" time lines effects on a fund or any funds, not the only truth yar

---

Added on January 6, 2012, 4:03 pmWell, IMHO, if 3 years+ tak jadi AND the current period is not a down-er (eg. end 2008/early 2009 kinda thing), i'd give it up and look to move into another equity fund. Hehhe - i'd just fix the mistake and admit my stupidity in picking that dang thing.
Pls note yar, this is just my own methods - may be illogical to others.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jan 6 2012, 04:16 PM


Attached File(s)
 PCIF.zip ( 17.35k ) Number of downloads: 46

I apologize if my earlier statement has triggered a fiery response. And yes not all funds have good performances.
DDI averages down your investments in order to achieve profit when the fund price goes above your average buy price, which is where your entry/exit point plays a role to determine profit or loss. I believe wongmunkeong’s explanation is already clear as above. As for China investments, will the trend continue? And is the risk worth the reward?

Mr Wong,

Thanks for your explaination.

i understand the time line factor, what i m try to understand is
1) DDI in place since early 2008
2) market bottom end 2008
3) market high late 2010

a) as such DDI would have effectively average the buying price, however, it is not the case as PCIF shows a negative 23%. should i continue to dump money into unprofitable funds? so DDI for how long?

b) by comparison, Maybank, CIMB, PBB shares which followed the dip and rebound has recovered its losses incurred during post 2008? why haven't the funds recovered as well? How can the stock market which is preceived to be riskier recovered while so called safer instruments failed?

now Mr Wong, i know you have an explaination, however i prefer agents who are promoting and sell these funds or working with unit trust companies to answer. Mr Wong, you may PM me instead if you wish.

and to agents here, don't ride on Mr Wong's previous postings.

Asking the agents the question might not really help, you should instead write directly to the Public Mutual branches.

<customer@publicmutual.com.my>; <mutualgold@publicmutual.com.my>;

I had been in your case before, and that what I did is, I stopped ALL the DDI, switched my China funds to a local fund, and choosen distribution as payout. This is because DDI will incur service charges, and PM service charges are freaking high. DCA is a concept but because of the high service charges, you still lose out.

Another way out I would choose is, I will exit Public Mutual investment, if I see their funds keeps deteriorating in the next couple of months.

No point to write to PM and blame them. Invest at your own risk is what u had signed b4 ur initial investment.
No fund manager can guarantee positive return.

This post has been edited by lunchtime: Jan 6 2012, 11:11 PM

I think they put disclaimer everywhere from the prospectus to website.

lunchtime:
Can u tell, why u comparing Maybank, CIMB, PBB shares with PCIF fund?

Number crunching time:

PCIF's 3 years Jessen-Alpha ratio is negative.

PCIF's 3 years Modigliani^2 ratio is also negative.

Don't DDI, you should punish the fund manager by stopping your DDI (meaning they can't get their 1.5% annual MER from you if you do not buy into their funds) while putting it into funds that perform. If the funds do not perform above the benchmark, they will not get my 1.5% MER. If they perform exceeding benchmark, then I will gladly pay them the 1.5% MER.

Financial ratio such as those I mentioned above help me to make informed decisions.

Fund managers need to be punished if they do not perform. Remember folks, we are the boss, not the fund manager. Get educated on these ratios. Get the EMO out of your decision making processes.

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Jan 8 2012, 05:16 PM

@xuzen, should I be grateful to switch out from PCSF early?

Yes, you should.

PCSF also have negative ratio.

Xuzen

kparam77,

my reasons for comparing funds & stocks, market has dipped and rebounded. You stated DDI to average down the cost but even with the market rebounding, the fund is negative while stocks are positive.

what is the reason?

Can someone guide me how do i sell/withdraw money from my public mutual funds? Need cash urgently and there's some in my public small cap. I do not have any documents with me right now. Can i go straight to a public mutual branch to sell or make a withdrawal?What documents or papers do i need? Or i just bring my I/C can already?

This post has been edited by Akane Soma: Jan 8 2012, 11:52 PM

Get the repurchase form. You can do that online if you have access to Public Mutual Online.

Otherwise, you can go to PM branch.

Bear in mind that the repurchase takes up to 2 working days to be completed.



This post has been edited by David83: Jan 8 2012, 11:56 PM

You don't actually need a whole bunch of ratios to know the China funds are under-performing.

In the medium to longer term, the performance of an "index" is dependent on fundamentals. China can no longer depend on export-led growth. They need to generate internal-consumption growth.

Ratios, or any form of technical analysis, may be useful for the shorter term, but by the time they tell you something in the long term, it's already too late.

And Fund managers may not make the most appropriate decisions given the market conditions, so that complicate things further.

And Fund managers come and go, a good manager may be replaced by a bad one tomorrow. Or vice-versa.

Ratios may be useful for some. The rest is up to you.

PS: And after looking at ratios which look bad, you may decide to sell at the bottom of the market. While the market goes up and up after you have sold.

This post has been edited by howszat: Jan 9 2012, 12:11 AM

been DDI to PFA30F since august 2010 and now shows a negative 15%

should i stop DDI in this fund ??

another evidence that DDI is not always the smartest way of investment

I agree with u......... but dont compare local stock/fudns with PCIF.

local funds recovered follow with local stocks.

for PCIF, only more or less 10% allocated in local market, the rest invest in China, hong kong, taiwan etc.

pls read the financial report on PCIF.... http://www.publicmutual.com.my/LinkClick.a..._o%3d&tabid=260