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 Recommendation for Credit Cards V1, TQ to contributors ! (From MOD)

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fly126
post Mar 25 2013, 12:48 AM

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QUOTE(hdzws @ Mar 25 2013, 12:17 AM)
Hello, would appreciate some help to decide on my first credit card. Details as follow:

Annual Income: RM55k

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: Ideally, but not necessary

3. Card required for: Mostly petrol, shopping, food, drinks

4. Existing credit cards if any: Nil

5. Looking at CC from: Looking at Citibank/Maybank/CIMB/ any bank at all if better

6. Others: -

Thanks!
*
Mostly, I will Recommend Maybank 2Cards & OCBC Titianum Card the Best & Most Popular Cards so Far now... thumbup.gif

i) Maybank 2Cards: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2641365
ii) OCBC Titianum Card: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2703542

& You also check on Citibank Clear Card's Benefits on my Post #2149 pg 108, Post #2165
fly126
post Mar 28 2013, 08:49 PM

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QUOTE(huiyooh @ Mar 28 2013, 04:03 PM)
hi all sifus, wanting to apply my first credit card, any advise?

1. Annual Income: RM33600 per year

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: Better if available

3. Card required for: petrol/online shopping/store purchase

4. Existing credit cards if any: Nope

5. Looking at CC from: citibank/maybank

6. Others: looking for a credit card with many in-store purchase discount on clothing and dining, movie promotion
*
Please Refer to Post #2173 for Your CC Recommedation... thumbup.gif
fly126
post Apr 26 2013, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(kronologi88 @ Apr 26 2013, 01:40 PM)
1. Annual Income: RM24K

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: Preferred

3. Card required for: Petrol ,groceries and IT gadget

4. Existing credit cards if any: Nil

5. Looking at CC from: No preferences

6. Others: Nil
*
My BEST Recommendation for You - UOB One Card Best Card for Fresh Graduate... brows.gif
Pls Check Up My #2149 Post at page 108.... for More Benefits on UOB one Card... nod.gif

fly126
post Apr 29 2013, 01:16 AM

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QUOTE(littledaus @ Apr 29 2013, 12:03 AM)
1. Annual Income: 30000

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: Must

3. Card required for: Petrol, tolls mostly. accepted at most stores overseas. will travel more due to work in the future. others are a bonus

4. Existing credit cards if any: none

5. Looking at CC from: anything

6. Others: none
*
Pls Refer to the Post #2149-51 at page 108 for Your Credit Card Recommendation... nod.gif
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1973206/+2140

Hope that the Info which provide can help You find the Credit Card that Rewarding You Most... tongue.gif

This post has been edited by fly126: Apr 29 2013, 04:14 PM
fly126
post Apr 29 2013, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(GuezzWho @ Apr 29 2013, 06:07 AM)
1. Annual Income: 50k +

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: Must / Available with reasonable conditions

3. Card required for: Utility bill (roughly 3k per month)

4. Existing credit cards if any: OCBC ti, Maybank Amex 2

5. Looking at CC from: anything - focus on cash back on utility

6. Others: none
*
Pls refer to the Post#2084 pg105 for the Best Deal... smile.gif
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1973206/+2080
fly126
post May 1 2013, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(GuezzWho @ Apr 30 2013, 06:25 AM)
Thanks.

But HL online portal cannot pay bills, which make things difficult. Plus, the WISE card need to pay annual fee RM 200+. Correct me if I'm wrong.
*
WISE... sweat.gif
Gold Card's AF- $160
Platinum's AF - $300

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2760395
fly126
post May 10 2013, 01:05 AM

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QUOTE(ulost16 @ May 9 2013, 07:27 PM)
1. Annual Income: RM80,000

2. Free Annual Fee: A must

3. Required for: Shopping/Dining/Groceries/Travel

4. Existing credit cards if any: no

5. Looking at CC from: any bank

6. Others: prefer islamic card...

7. I am foreigner

MOD Warning : No solicitation allowed.
*
My BEST Recommendation:

1) OCBC Titianum Card is FREE for Life with NO Annual Fee
This Card Earn Cash Rebate (Max up to $50 a Month):
* 5% on Petrol, Dining, Billing & Groceries Spend
* 1% on Retail Spending
+ the $50 GST was automatically Offset with at least $10,000 charged to the Card p.a
for Details : http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2703542

OR

2) Maybank 2Cards , the Best Card in Town So Far...
It's FREE for Life with 3 Years Expiration Period Treat Points
*The benefits of two cards, Maybankard 2 American Express® Card and Maybankard 2 MasterCard or Visa Card, in 1 sign up, 1 service tax, & 1 statement.
*You can Enjoy a low Finance Charge of 8.88% p.a. on your outstanding retail balance.
*5x TreatsPoints for every Ringgit spent on Maybankard 2 American Express Card and 1x TreatsPoint on Maybankard 2 Card in Malaysia or anywhere else in the world.
* 5% Weekend cash back when spend on Maybankard 2 American Express Card capped at RM50 per customer (including Supp Cardmember) per month

& Pls refer to the Post#2084 pg105 for the Best (cash-back) Deal...
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1973206/+2080

http://www.maybank2u.com.my/mbb_info/m2u/p...sonal/CRD-Cards

This post has been edited by fly126: Sep 16 2013, 04:25 PM
fly126
post May 10 2013, 01:31 AM

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QUOTE(sepet @ May 9 2013, 04:23 PM)
1. Annual Income: RM24,000

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: A Must

3. Card required for: Shopping/Dining/Groceries/Travels

4. Existing credit cards if any: no

5. Looking at CC from: any bank except Maybank bcoz maybank already reject my application

6. Others: prefer islamic card...
*
The Best Card for NEWbie - i) UOB One Card a Pure Cash Back Card ... tongue.gif
You can Earn Cash Rebate ON:
* 5% for Petrol (Limit to Total Purchase of $300 every Month Entitled for Cash Rebates, Max. Cash Back capped at $15 per month on Classic Card)
(As for One Platinum- $500 per Month with Cash Back $25)
* 5% for Cinema at GSC only
* 2% for Groceries (Limit to Total Purchase of $1500 Per Month Entitled for Cash Rebates it capped at $30 per month.)
* 2% at Pharmacies
* 2% for Telecommunication Bills (Limit to Total Bill of $300 Per Month Entitled for Cash Rebates)
& 0.3% for all Other Purchases (including Online Purchase)...
*Enchanted with SMART$ Cash Rebate Privileges

OTHERS,


Although ii) HLB's Mach Card got More Cash-Back Categories (Get choose 1 for Free...12 All's from Movies to Dining... But, NO on Petrol):
For Details: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2421215
But, Need to pay RM5 every 3 months to enjoy additional categories of CashBack of the Card !

If You like Coffee or suka go on Movie (Weekday), You also can Consider iii) Citibank Clear Card...
Benefits from Citibank Clear Card (with NO Expire Reward Point):
*Friday Buy 1 Free 1 Movie Ticket (Normal class) at GSC, TGV and Cathay Cineplexes
*1-for-1 drinks at Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf
*Privileges at Zouk Club KL
*CITIBANK CLEAR CARD 3X REWARDS All Year Long Shop/Outlet in Malaysia:
1. Zouk Club Kuala Lumpur
2. Zouk café & Bar
3. G2000
4. Zara
5. Charles & Keith
6. Borders Bookstore
7. Alexis Bistro & Wine Bar
8. Sakae Sushi
9. Pedro
Please Refer to: http://www.citibank.com.my/clear/?eOfferCode=MYCCLNCLC more on Citibank Clear card

P.s: Use Your's Credit Card Frequently, Bank will Delighted to Waive Off the Annual Fee for You... smile.gif

This post has been edited by fly126: Sep 22 2013, 01:13 AM
fly126
post May 10 2013, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(Mr.Audi @ May 8 2013, 10:07 PM)
1. Annual Income:Rm100k+/-

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: Better if available

3. Card required:To get rebate,Bank record purpose,Convinience

4. Existing credit cards if any:No,But Public bank account member

5. Looking at CC from:Pbb 12% or  8% promo/Ocbc titanium
What card is good to have? Maybe which one has best redemption.
Oh ya,I guess my spending on CC should be 3k-15k per month normally.
*
PLS, Refer to My Post #2209 pg111 for Your Credit Card Recommendation... biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by fly126: Jun 4 2013, 01:14 PM
fly126
post May 13 2013, 11:32 AM

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[/B]
QUOTE(HJebat @ May 13 2013, 07:11 AM)
1. Annual Income: RM30K to RM60K...spouse also in the same bracket

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: A must.

3. Card required for: Cash Back & petrol.

4. Existing credit cards if any: Nil.

5. Looking at CC from: Only 6 banks available in my town (Public, CIMB, Maybank, HL, RHB & BSN).

6. Others: GST waiver.
*
Maybank was the Best...Famous with their 2Cards https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2641365
Same as well with CIMB http://www.cimbbank.com.my/creditcard/inde...cc_lu&ct=driver
It's [B]FREE
For Life with NO Rules & Conditions apply... thumbup.gif

More on Petrol Pumping with Your Credit Card: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1798403

As for GST, the Bank Never Waive it for You but You can OFFSET it by Using Reward Point (10,000 pts = $50GST)
OR with Total Spending Min $10,000 a Year, then You can Request GST Waiver from Some of the Banks

But, Mostly We will paid Our Own GST sweat.gif

The Rest (RHB, PB, HLB & BSN).... I think will need Min. 12x Swipes a Year on Annual Fee Waiver hmm.gif

This post has been edited by fly126: May 13 2013, 11:43 AM
fly126
post May 13 2013, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(HJebat @ May 13 2013, 11:56 AM)
Meaning that I should get either MBB 2 or CIMB? Or I need both MBB 2 & CIMB for the best combo?
*
Either One that Suite You... nod.gif
What I mean Both Cards were Free for Life you Choose Either One

Definitely, Maybank 2Cards are Best Cards in Town... rclxms.gif

Maybank 2Cards
It's FREE for Life with Timeless Treat Point with No Expire...
*The benefits of two cards, Maybankard 2 American Express® Card and Maybankard 2 MasterCard or Visa Card, in 1 sign up, 1 service tax, & 1 statement.
*You can Enjoy a low Finance Charge of 8.88% p.a. on your outstanding retail balance.
*5x TreatsPoints for every Ringgit spent on Maybankard 2 American Express Card and 1x TreatsPoint on Maybankard 2 Card in Malaysia or anywhere else in the world.
* 5% Weekend cash back when spend on Maybankard 2 American Express Card capped at RM50 per customer (including Supp Cardmember) per month

IF compare WITH,

CIMB Petronas Gold MasterCard
■No Annual Fee
■Earn up to 8% cash back at PETRONAS Stations
■0.5% unlimited cash back on other retail transactions
■Complimentary ZING card

U can See Which Card were the BEST Now... wink.gif

This post has been edited by fly126: May 13 2013, 01:03 PM
fly126
post May 13 2013, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(HJebat @ May 13 2013, 01:13 PM)
Thanks for the lengthy explanations rclxms.gif
Can advice me on the credit limit of MBB 2 & CIMB?
*
2x of Your Salary maybe with Startup Credit Limit $4,000-$5000 depends on Bank... rolleyes.gif
Get MBB 2Cards or Both...???


QUOTE(sepet @ May 13 2013, 01:21 PM)
thanks for ur advice, i will apply today  smile.gif
*
Apply for UOB One Card..???

You're Most Welcome... tongue.gif

This post has been edited by fly126: May 13 2013, 01:39 PM
fly126
post May 14 2013, 10:24 PM

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QUOTE(sepet @ May 14 2013, 05:03 PM)
thanks fly... smile.gif

so which one is better? cash back or reward point? sory im newbie about creadit card.. 1st time apply & use
*
It's Depends...but most of ppl prefer Cash-Rebate, more Practical (You called Me $$$ Face brows.gif)
When use Cash Back Card,Your Spending turn to Cash Rebate credit back to Your Account every month sure Happy isn't it... laugh.gif

As for the Reward Point CC just Collecting Points to Redeem Gift, Vouchers... but NOT All Your Spending will Rewarded You Point (e.g Some of the CC No Reward Points will give on Petrol Purchase)... nod.gif
Furthermore, U Need Banyak Reward Point for tukar Barang atau Voucher like e.g $50 KFC Voucher = 11,600 pts as (RM 1 for 1 Reward point)= $11,600 = $50 KFC Vouchers... shocking.gif
And 1 more, Some of the Credit Card Reward Points gone Expired maybe Valid up to 3 Years only

Why Not now, You just get 1 Cash-Back CC see how the Out Come 1st...
When having Your Salary Increasement later baru apply Another Credit Card as Backup, No Point to apply banyak CC nanti kena Hutang Banyak untuk Kahwin... wink.gif


fly126
post May 17 2013, 10:53 PM

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Edited... sweat.gif

This post has been edited by fly126: May 17 2013, 11:14 PM
fly126
post May 17 2013, 11:12 PM

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QUOTE(Alvin89 @ May 17 2013, 10:46 PM)
Annual income : 80k

annual fees : not an issue

card required for : premium lounge access

current c.card : HSBC, citibank

looking for a Amex with lounge access but can't seems to find any..
*
QUOTE(fly126 @ May 17 2013, 10:53 PM)
The Amex Platinum Card
http://www.maybank2u.com.my/mbb_info/m2u/p...sonal/CRD-Cards
•Present your Card for complimentary access to the Plaza Premium Lounge at KLIA, LCCT and Senai Johor Airport.
*
Alliance Bank Cash Back Platinum Card just 60K min. Annual Income Requiment...
U can Enjoy Unlimited Complimentary Access to KLIA Plaze Premium Lounge with This Card
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1973206/+2200 MyPost#2214
fly126
post May 20 2013, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(KageBunshi @ May 18 2013, 09:39 PM)
1. Annual Income: 70k

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: A Must/ able to waive

3. Card required for: access to KLIA Lounge as im traveling alot

4. Existing credit cards if any: maybank platinum 2cards, OCBC Ti

5. Looking at CC from: Citibank Platinum card and alliance plat card.

6. Others: since im using maybank and ocbc for all my transaction. Im just looking for a card the grant access to lounge.
*
My Recommendation...
i) Alliance Bank Cash Back Platinum Benefits as Bellow :
•0% Finance Charge for first 3 months
•Up to 2.0% cash back* on retail spend
•2x Timeless Bonus Points on overseas spend
•Annual fee waiver for every year with easy spend conditions, i.e. spend a minimum of RM5,000 or swipe 12 times within
a 12-month period
•Exclusive privileges and discounts at participating merchants
•Instalment Payment Plan at 0% p.a. interest rate at participating merchants
•Unlimited Complimentary Access to KLIA Plaze Premium Lounge
•Customer Service Hotline Assistance
•No lost card liability upon reporting
•Worldwide recognition and acceptance
More on Platinum Card: http://www.alliancebank.com.my/Personal-Ba...tinum-Card.aspx

ii) Citibank Platinum Card Benefits:
*5x Reward Points
Yeah, You can Earn 5x Citi Rewards Point at Selected Dept. Store & Supermarket or Hypermarkets with Citi's Platinum Card
But, the 5x Rewards Points is Capped at $3000/month, after which, It will be back to 1x Rewards Points... sweat.gif
*Complimentary Plaza Premium Lounge
Present your Citibank Platinum card for complimentary access to the Plaza Premium Lounge in KLIA, Langkawi International Airport and Sultan Ismail International Airport (Johor)
*Complimentary Travel Insurance
*Platinum Rewards and Redemption with Redeem Anything Anywhere Feature
*Platinum Purchase/Refund with Extended Warranty Protection Plan
Pls, Refer to : http://www.citibank.com.my/english/credit-...rCode=MYCCLNPLC more on Citibank Platinum Card

iii) Hong Leong Visa Signature Card
*1% Cash Rebate
*DOUBLE Bonus Plus Points
Earn Fast Track and unlimited Bonus Plus Points with 2 Bonus Plus Points for every RM1 spent abroad, 1.5 Bonus Plus Points for every RM1 spent locally
* Frequent Flyer Rewards
* Unlimited Access to Plaza Premium Lounge
*COMPLIMENTARY Personal Protection Plan & COMPLIMENTARY Travel Accident Insurance
*Annual Fee($600) Waiver- AF will be waived with a minimum cumulative spend of RM30,000 per annum for subsequent year(s)
Details on HLB Visa Signature: http://www.hlb.com.my/pfs/cc/cc_visa-signa..._visa-signature

QUOTE(suadrif @ May 20 2013, 03:15 PM)
1. Annual Income: 40k
2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: optional
3. Card required for: petrol, bills, utilities, mobile, GSC & TGV cinemas
4. Existing credit cards if any: nil
5. Looking at CC from: any except OCBC Titanium. previous application got rejected.
6. Others: prefer cashback credit card. Is Citibank good enuf? or any better card?
*
While OCBC have Reject You, Why Not You still can Consider These Cards:

i) Maybank 2Cards the Best Card in Town
It's FREE for Life with Timeless Treat Point with No Expire...
*The benefits of 2 cards, Maybankard 2 American Express® Card and Maybankard 2 MasterCard or Visa Card, in 1 sign up, 1 service tax, and 1 statement.
*You can Enjoy a low Finance Charge of 8.88% p.a. on your outstanding retail balance.
*5x TreatsPoints for every Ringgit spent on Maybankard 2 American Express Card and 1x TreatsPoint on Maybankard 2 Card in Malaysia or anywhere else in the world.
* 5% Weekend cash back when spend on Maybankard 2 American Express Card capped at RM50 per customer (including Supp Cardmember) per month.

ii) The Best Card for NEWbie- UOB One Platinum Card a Pure Cash Back Card
You can Earn Cash Rebate ON:
* 5% for Petrol (Limited to Total Purchase of $600 every Month Entitled for Cash Rebates, Cash Back capped at $30 per month)
* 5% for Cinema at GSC only
* 2% for Groceries (Limited to Total Purchase of $1500 Per Month Entitled for Cash Rebates it capped at $30 per month.)
* 2% at Pharmacies
* 2% for Telecommunication Bills (Limited to Total Bill of $300 Per Month Entitled for Cash Rebates)
& 0.3% for all Other Purchase

iii) If You like Coffee or suka go on Movie (Weekday), You can also Consider Citibank Clear Card
Benefits of Citibank Clear Card (Timeless without Expire Reward Point Card):
*Friday Buy 1 Free 1 Movie Ticket (Normal class) at GSC, TGV and Cathay Cineplexes
*1-for-1 drinks at Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf
*Privileges at Zouk Club KL
*CITIBANK CLEAR CARD 3X REWARDS All Year Long Shop/Outlet in Malaysia:
1. Zouk Club Kuala Lumpur
2. Zouk café & Bar
3. G2000
4. Zara
5. Charles & Keith
6. Borders Bookstore
7. Alexis Bistro & Wine Bar
8. Sakae Sushi
9. Pedro
Please Refer to: http://www.citibank.com.my/clear/?eOfferCode=MYCCLNCLC more on Citibank Clear card

This post has been edited by fly126: May 21 2013, 04:05 AM
fly126
post May 20 2013, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(suadrif @ May 20 2013, 05:15 PM)
between UOB and Maybank2Card, which one is more recommended?
*
Depends on Your Spending Pattern... blink.gif
Both Can Not be Compare they totally Different Type of Card: 1 was is Pure Cash Back Card, Another 1 More in Reward Points based Card
But, MBB 2Cards You earn 5% Weekeend Cash Back & 5x Reward Points with the Amex & its Free for Life with NO T&C's apply to... brows.gif

This post has been edited by fly126: May 20 2013, 05:42 PM
fly126
post Jun 3 2013, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(M.A. @ Jun 2 2013, 02:15 PM)
1. Annual Income: According to Borang EA, last year earned 29,919 (basic, allowance and ot)
2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: If waived, better. If not, dont mind.
3. Card required for: Groceries, petrol, movies.
4. Existing credit cards if any: No, first time applying
5. Looking at CC from: Any bank
6. Others: Applying for CC because when I apply for loan they say I'm too "clean". No loans, no cc card. Suggested to apply for a card. Just kinda need advice on which one to apply. The card will be used to buy groceries (pay immediately, just to collect points and rebates maybe). And maybe buy some stuffs using the 0% installment plans. Would really appreciate it if can point to whichever suitable cards.
*
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1973206/+2200 Check on Post #2210
fly126
post Jun 3 2013, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(apisfires @ May 22 2013, 09:22 PM)
1. Annual Income: RM34k

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: A Must

3. Card required for: AirAsia/MAS , easy isntallment plan and online hotel booking

4. Existing credit cards if any: 1st time apply

5. Looking at CC from: Maybank/CIMB

6. Others: Please be specific. I'm Gov servant work in sarawak, need credit card to buy cheaper ticket early to back to hometown because sometimes i cant use cash to buy cheap ticket during promotion period..  sweat.gif
*
Refer to Post #2217...
CIMB Petronas Gold MasterCard
■No Annual Fee
■Earn up to 8% cash back at PETRONAS Stations
■0.5% unlimited cash back on other retail transactions
■Complimentary ZING card

QUOTE(kopi29 @ Jun 1 2013, 11:28 AM)
1. Annual Income: RM40K
2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: No 
3. Card required for: Petrol, Bill, Cash Back/Rebate, Dining, Movies, Overseas Transaction
4. Existing credit cards if any: No, first time applying
5. Looking at CC from: Any bank
6. Others: First time applying credit card. Need CC for business trip overseas (twice a year).
*
Pls Refer to: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1973206/+2200 Post #2209

This post has been edited by fly126: Jun 3 2013, 01:26 PM
fly126
post Jun 4 2013, 03:28 AM

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QUOTE(David900924 @ Jun 4 2013, 12:32 AM)
Can I apply credit card with my salary/pay slip instead of EPF?

because my company epf report lower <24k pa and all contribution is readjust to increase my salary after adjustment.
.
1. Annual Income: Around 30k
2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: Yes 
3. Card required for: Air fare ticket like airasia/mas. Petrol. Shopping
4. Existing credit cards if any: No, first time applying
5. Looking at CC from: Any bank
6. Others: my spending mostly on petrol (Shell), using bonuslink n cash only. whereas for airasia and Mas, i use big shot loyalty card and enrich miles.
*
With min. Income of $24,000 p.a You can have Standard Chartered WorldMiles MasterCard Credit Card which can Earn You Worldmiles Point on Your Spending & Redeem IT for frequent flyer miles like Malaysia Airlines Enrich Miles, Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer Miles and AirAsia BIG Points. But, You have to Pay $15 Monthly Fee for the Card ($15 x 12 months + $50 GST= $230)

For Another Option or Recommendation of Air-Miles Card , pls Refer to the Link below:
https://www.ringgitplus.com/blog/credit-car...travel-for-free
http://www.standardchartered.com.my/person...es/aboutwm.html

Btw, Most the Bank now Refer to EPF's Submission 1st or Some of Bank Just Need You EPF' Printout Only on Credit Card App ... sweat.gif
(Your EPF Employee's Contribution Must have min. $220 = the Income of $2000/- per month OR $24,000 a Year as the Min. Income Requiment)

But,You still can Apply Credit Card With Providing Extra Document to Bank to make It More Secured, try to give them 3 months Bank Statements which can Show ALL of Your Actual Earning (Salary) Credit to (Your Payroll Account) Every Month as Your Supporting Document (beside Payslip & EPF's Printout) to Convince the Bank that, You Betul-betul Earn That Much $$$... rolleyes.gif

But... Long before that, 1 of Forummer here got the card with Gross Monthly Income although His/Her EPF Submission NOT based on $2000 ($220) brows.gif

Hope It Helps smile.gif

This post has been edited by fly126: Jun 4 2013, 04:14 AM

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