if it hardly sells (thanks to cheaper oils), do you think workshops would happily stock them unless they are serious/enthusiastic in what they do?
that said, my regular OCI/random fixing workshop stocks torco, which i intro'd my mom on our sentra (co-owned lulz) and she never looked back to mainstreams

http://twitpic.com/8j3rf0
- not my fastest speed (well the car peaks at ~165km/h)
- thats on 3rd gear obviously, i red line my 1st and 2nd gear all the time easily

my iswara is on liqui moly SS + ceratec
rev not as fast/hard as torco, it is however damn smooth and much lower NVH

i can guarantee you mainstream oils:
- cant withstand my hard revving all day erry day
- 3-4k km the engine starts to feel heavy as shit
- reaching max speed takes AGES
- forget revving redlines, more often than not due to the sluggish engine, havent red line ady gear shift
- shitty NVH/engine tappet/pinging (which means interrupting my ICE and that makes me very very unhappy )

if i were to drive more expensive rides (in my own personal definition, over 100k cars), id opt for good full syn.
as both my rides arent over 100k, good semi syn is the way to go

ps:
whoever driving bmw/type r vtec/turbo and they opt for xw50 (lol 50) mineral oil... this is all i have for them:

Cool, you drive like a racer, just like my two oldest bros... (Also revving to really high RPMs.) I will try once I use the full-synthetic.

BTW, those BMW/Type-R/Turbo type engines runs really hot... As such, those type of engines typically require higher-viscosity engine-oils like xW- 50; because anything lower would not be sufficient enough in protecting the engine. (Also mentioned in the article posted earlier.)

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 29 2012, 04:19 AM

Actually, castrol magnatec semi syn 10/40 costs around 118 to 120, my workshop sells lm ss mos2 10/40 for 120 as well. In fact , there are a few workshopsa round kota damansara that sells lm oils and addictives, especially those bmw experts....

IMO, people are getting unnecessarily worried about engine oil. Talking from experience, as long as you use oil with the:
1. Right Viscosity
2. Right API/ACEA/JASO rating.
3. Change at the 5K or 10K according to manufacturer recommendation (the exception would be those super long BMW OCI).
4. Not a race track driver

There is not going to be any engine oil related engine problem. My friend and I had used RM10/liter good mineral oil for up to 1/2 million kilometer with no problem. So RM30/liter to us is super expensive already.

I agree regarding the unnecessary worriness about engine oil on normal plain engine cars. My father's Proton Wira has been using 15w40 to 20w50 grade mineral oil for the past more than 10 years without ever had any issue with lubrication.

Engine oil should be a bit of concern for modern complicated engines though, like engines with variable cam and valve timings, turbocharger, supercharger and such. Using certain unsuitable engine oil does affect operation like VTEC for example. I can guarantee that a lot of Honda VTEC user agree with me. Wrong oil, VTEC wont engage.

yeah i fully agree too. however if one can afford to spend a bit more, and does care for their engine, why not have better lubricants right?

in my own personal case, i just completely rebuild my engine which costed me well over 2k (i've made a thread over here too as sort of a journal/opinion & advice seeking) and im not one to sit on 1st/middle lane cruising under 100. given the opportunity, i would pedal to the metal, and on this rather, "primitive" 4g15p engine, it can be considerably detrimental to it which is why i seek better protection/lubrication so that the engine could cope to my "needs" without it dying/having issues unnecessarily

of course, its all within reasonable spending. no point going full syn on a 3.3 litre oil sump car with a damn tiny oil filter (4g15p oil filter these days are around the size of a person's hand, compared to other vehicles its seemingly small ) that cannot sustain up till 10k km OCI with the carbon build up and what not.

not to mention, even if it could, who's to say my old underpowered car can make full use of what the FS oil can provide me? IINM under 100 horses and a max speed of ~160 km/h, thats hardly close to what most modern cars can do these days despite being hybrid/aimed for FC/effeciency rather than performance

I don't know about VTEC etc but I do know on diesel engines with intercooling and turbocharging, never experienced any problem with good Mineral Oil. Of course, our experience only goes up to 1/2 million kilometer so can't say what will happen beyond that mileage. And diesel engine are known to be tougher on engine oils than petrol engine. That is why I said many people are unnecessarily worried about nothing over engine oils.

Since we do not have extreme cold like Alaska nor the extreme heat like the Sahara desert or drive a Ferrari, I bet the majority of people do not need FS oil. It's simply a waste of money IMHO. And oil salesman tried to justify the higher cost by telling lies about being able to extend OCI with FS.

As for the VTEC issue. I suspect it is due to using oil of the wrong viscosity/rating rather than FS or Mineral.


This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Feb 29 2012, 10:57 AM

as salam,


AFAIK, the exact quantity and formula and additive are SECRET RECIPE for any oil manufacturer.....

but 10 basic additive as i mention before, are standard nowadays...


no company will reveal what actually they put inside their oil

sarjantulang

---

Added on February 29, 2012, 11:14 amone of my friend using the Duron E 15w-40(mineral).....every 20000km only he will change the oil...now already 3 times using the same oil....


the question is, what kind of BASE OIL produce by the company....is it 75% base oil or 99% pure base oil....



and FYI, you can put any additive you like to your oil as long as you know where to get it.....hehehe

sarjantulang

This post has been edited by sarjantulang: Feb 29 2012, 11:14 AM

Imagine a cook cooking a special dish. While you do know he uses salt, sugar, oil, vinegar, pepper etc as ingredient, he will not tell you how much quantity to use and when you use them. It could be vinegar must come before pepper or pepper before salt. It's his secret. So if you add too much vinegar, the taste will be totally off and ruin the dish the cook had carefully prepared for you.

Likewise, while we do know what additives a oil manufacturer use, we can not go and add more of the stuff ourselves. Doing so may ruin the engine oil. That is why I tell people, don't go add additives by yourself because you are going to ruin it. Too little not good. Too much can be not good also. Oil manufacturer spend billion to concoct a special recipe so don't be a smart *** to spoil what they created.

yes that right sir.....that's why my sifu always said all engine oil are depend on the what type of BASE OIL and what kind of additive are inside...

again, the mentality of many customers around the world are only looking at FS oil, the pricey the better, the only "known" brand are the best....

if you search, there is thousand of engine oil manufacturer....sometimes they just bought a large quantity of base oil from a oil company, then produce, adding additive, re brand and sell to customer....


many of us still dont know what kind of engine oil they're buying...sometimes fake and recycle(at some sparepart), sometime spend to much money for an engine oil that sound good but give poor quality....

in Malaysia, our customer are not protected enough.....in others country like US, EU, "one simply dont make claim of their product until proven"...

sarjantulang

When these people unknowingly bought fake oil and bring it to official service center and insist on using it, and when engine problem starts, they insist car manufacturer must honor their engine warranty.

This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Feb 29 2012, 05:48 PM

Nothing wrong with that. My Mitsubishi dealer filled the car with 40 weight Mobil 1. Can't feel anything wrong with the engine.

I do use Royal Purple for the Nissan though.

40 OK la. 50, and mineral, really sad lol.

There are Synthetic xW50 as well. Would be just as bad dragging performance as Mineral.

If I were to take a long run across the desert, or ram the engine hard then 50 wouldn't be an issue.

For big engined cars with giant oil channels, I don't think 50 mineral is that bad.

Smaller turboed ones would suffer though.

Yes. Using it. Mobil 1 5w50 rally formula. So far so good. Not as problematic as other 20w50. And definitely won't feel the engine's having difficulty lubricating. Last time I use a low viscosity FS oil. When the engine is damn hot, you can feel the car is just running in an aquarium or floating in mid space. Damn scared the oil become too low viscose. No choice have to change to *w50 oils. Now still looking for lub oils with low viscosity, but reliable, high heat tolerance and much affordable.

for those cases you mentioned, 50 weight would serve its purpose.
though, mineral based on long run across the desert? again, not my cup of tea lol.

and yea, im especially "sensitive" to thicker viscosity oil ratings since i am driving an old AT 1.5 iswara lol
anything above xw40 will just make me (and my engine!) emo

Oh no..., then how come the workshops around had so far been charging me RM 70+ for filling-in 1-liter of mineral-grade engine oil into my engine? (15W - 40 Shell mineral oil.)

The cheapest I encountered was a workshop that charged me RM 50 for putting-in 1-liter of (Top One brand 20W - 50) mineral engine-oil... (But opting for the Shell mineral option would also cost me RM 70+ as well...)

How come is it so expensive? (Workmanship & oil-filter price was not included.)


*Which is why when I got the Shell fully-synthetic engine-oil recently (1-liter), from the Tesco hypermarket, for just RM 40+ only..., I though that was really seriously cheap indeed (compared to the price I've been paying for those mineral-grade oils in the past)...


Thankfully I hardly been using the car anyway, and that I only started driving 1.5 years ago (before I realized this now)... Or else, I would have been "cheated" even-more by the workshops (in paying for their overprice mineral engine-oils)...

This post has been edited by kEITh_22b: Feb 29 2012, 09:50 PM

one liter, or four liters?

It is unlikely that my 4-cylinders would take-in 4-liters of oil; I remember seeing that the price was for 1 liter in the receipt...