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 V3. Swiftlet Keeping Discussion, Home of Fuciphagus Domesticus

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mfyapp
post Nov 3 2010, 02:00 AM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Nov 2 2010, 11:28 PM)
Thank you for the answer.
The ultimate prevention at source is to install KILN DRIED planks. Just slightly more expensive but worth every dollar of it. If you haven't install the planks yet, you can still send the planks to KD plant (if available in your area) to dry planks in kiln chamber within a day or two.
 
Unless using a dehumidifier in the BH, no way we can prevent the hi rH during monsoon season. But If we can kill the fungus spores and dry up the planks by using heat gun, then the molds recurrence can be minimized. At least during the monsoon season.

Some heat guns can go as high as 1000C !!
*
Maybe can install ion filter but I think will not be cost effective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_purifier
Tweeter
post Nov 3 2010, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Nov 2 2010, 10:28 PM)
The ultimate prevention at source is to install KILN DRIED planks. Just slightly more expensive but worth every dollar of it. If you haven't install the planks yet, you can still send the planks to KD plant (if available in your area) to dry planks in kiln chamber within a day or two.
  
Unless using a dehumidifier in the BH, no way we can prevent the hi rH during monsoon season. But If we can kill the fungus spores and dry up the planks by using heat gun, then the molds recurrence can be minimized. At least during the monsoon season.

Some heat guns can go as high as 1000C !!
*
Thanks AEIOU228.

Yes, the KD plank can definitly prevent black mold, as black mold infested inside the wood plank that has moisture more than 20%.
However although we use the KD plank, if the humidity and temperature inside our BH is at optimal condition, which are Temp 20-30 degree celcius and humidity at 80-90%RH, we still have mold on the surface of our plank, but this time it is a white mold.

I am still searching for a good preventive, maintenance and curing systems to deal with these white molds.
Any advise?

This post has been edited by Tweeter: Nov 3 2010, 01:15 PM
West Wing
post Nov 3 2010, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(coolandy @ Nov 3 2010, 12:57 AM)
From James Blog.

http://swiftletfarmer.blogspot.com/

Is Smell Important? Obviously Yes!

This Article may open up those Jokers’ Brain dead minds (so called SIFUS) who tried to spoil the Love Potion image in the market. This was done particularly to hijack out of jealousy and envy.

If my memory served me well, it was about 2 or 3 years back When Love Potion formulation was discovered by me. Some of them asked me for the formula of Love Potion but I refused to give it them. Here sparked the anger.

One particular Joker from K.T now supplying some self made hygrostat,( perhaps already out of business now) condemned Love Potion argued that smell doesn’t play important role in birds’ behavior. Many newbie called him SIfu I guess that was self claimed. He owned a failed farm but trying to teach others how to build successful farm and advise others what to use and what not to be used in farm.

Imagine if you are unlucky to have associated with such person then that is the end of your farm. There is so much yet to be known by many but we have been practicing it. Since Swiftlets like and enjoying playing in rain I bet they produce lots of oil in their feathers for water proofing compared with other birds and this oil significantly plays a part in social behavior.

Therefore when Love potion is applied in farm Swiftlets would swap in to the source of aroma. The below article may open up your mind regarding scent in birds.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Please judge for yourself this so-called sifu James comments in his blog about someone he doesn't even know about. Why he has to stoop so low, only he knows? It was a healthy debate in Dr Chris's forum.

James, cheer up and keep selling Love Portion and make your $$. No need to harbour so much anger and stop making false accusations. Why hit someone below the belt after so many years?

Dr Chris knows if that person you refer to has a very successful BH that would be the envy of many! The hygrostat is also selling well. Also he never claim to be sifu and nobody calls him sifu.

I really do not understand why you have to write such a post in your blog. Had a drink too many? Anyway have a good day.

Does your blog allow people to post comments like Harry's blog?
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Hi Coolandy,

I am with you in the matter as like you, I feel offended too. Here, we @ forum discuss and comments on feedback by fellow friends of swifltets venturing into the industry and if any product is not up to expectation, we have the right to give comments or advice on this forum. Likewise, if he feels discriminated or if the person we are referring to is infact "J,K or L" but nobody did mentioned his name in this forum. If the person is him, then let him speak and explain here at the forum and we can decide on our own on who right or wrong.

In my opinion, we are all friends of the swiftlets and we wish everyone here success and if any product is really good, we will pass recommendation and if any product which is inferior or bad, we also do comment. No bad intention from me at leas t but if I am also one of the "jealousy and envy" group, then I guess that you must be barking at the wrong tree as I am not a supplier of bird perfume/sound nor am I a Consultant in the field. I never think of myself as a Sifu but here to share our knowledge and experience for all bird lovers in respective of race or color. But the truth remain is that I do process many years experience and knowledge in the field ( although, it's all old ancient or grand father's way ) of managing BH but if it help you, then I have done my contribution to my friends here and to the industry.

As for me, I am here to learn the latest technology and art in the filed....." It's never to old to learn" I do admit and believe that smell and sound do play a very important part in early BH development and gradually, these are no longer essential as the original sound and smell beat all imitation ones. Maybe, someone will come up with a SIRIM proof of quality.

So, be happy and think positive as we are in the same family............and as for anyone, if I ever offended you, may I take this opportunity to extend my apology and hope all will be well after we have our teh tarik talk. But that doesn't mean that I will keep my big mouth shut and that will have to wait until I die.....hahaha
aeiou228
post Nov 3 2010, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(Tweeter @ Nov 3 2010, 01:14 PM)
Thanks AEIOU228.

Yes, the KD plank can definitly prevent black mold, as black mold infested inside the wood plank that has moisture more than 20%.
However although we use the KD plank, if the humidity and temperature inside our BH is at optimal condition, which are Temp 20-30 degree celcius and humidity at 80-90%RH, we still have mold on the surface of our plank, but this time it is a white mold.

I am still searching for a good preventive, maintenance and curing systems to deal with these white molds.
Any advise?
*
Well, I would like to put it this way, with KD planks you effectively lower the risk of getting mold rather than a 2 months air dried planks. My KD Red Meranti planks have no mold problem in a max rH BH and only a few pieces of non KD, not-so-red color planks (add on purchases from other supplier) have white mold.

How Does Heat Affect Fungi?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

htc
post Nov 3 2010, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ Nov 3 2010, 02:27 PM)
So, be happy and think positive as we are in the same family............and as for anyone, if I ever offended you, may I take this opportunity to extend my apology and hope all will be well after we have our teh tarik talk. But that doesn't mean that I will keep my big mouth shut and that will have to wait until I die.....hahaha
*
i also wish i have something to sell...unfortunately, i have not discovered the next big thing!

This post has been edited by htc: Nov 3 2010, 02:48 PM
Tweeter
post Nov 3 2010, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Nov 3 2010, 01:35 PM)
Well, I would like to put it this way, with KD planks you effectively lower the risk of getting mold rather than a 2 months air dried planks. My KD Red Meranti planks have no mold problem in a max rH BH and only a few pieces of non KD, not-so-red color planks (add on purchases from other supplier) have white mold.

How Does Heat Affect Fungi?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Thanks again aeiou228, you got me!
I'll try to see whether I can KD my planks.

Good readings on KD wood and mold growth optimum conditions.
http://www1.uni-hamburg.de/cost/e15/papers...i-paper0103.pdf

http://www.ibpsa.org//proceedings/BS2003/BS03_0895_902.pdf

This post has been edited by Tweeter: Nov 3 2010, 05:15 PM
West Wing
post Nov 3 2010, 06:26 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Nov 3 2010, 02:35 PM)
Well, I would like to put it this way, with KD planks you effectively lower the risk of getting mold rather than a 2 months air dried planks. My KD Red Meranti planks have no mold problem in a max rH BH and only a few pieces of non KD, not-so-red color planks (add on purchases from other supplier) have white mold.


*
Just for my knowledge.

1. KILN DRIED planks. Do plank after kiln chamber drying produce any smell.
During old days, we insisted on sun dryed planks and not KD as we are afraid of the chemical if any in the chamber. Since I am no expert in the kiln chamber process, maybe you can enlighten me and maybe if good, I may also used KD planks.

2. I have seen some white fungus that grow in meranti wood and they look just like BN base layer until I have a closer look at the fungus. It's rubber like type of fungus and I recommended it to be removed with steel brush and water or any better suggestion?

Tweeter
post Nov 3 2010, 07:06 PM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ Nov 3 2010, 05:26 PM)
Just for my knowledge.

1. KILN DRIED planks. Do plank after kiln chamber drying produce any smell.
During old days, we insisted on sun dryed planks and not KD as we are afraid of the chemical if any in the chamber. Since I am no expert in the kiln chamber process, maybe you can enlighten me and maybe if good, I may also used KD planks.

2. I have seen some white fungus that grow in meranti wood and they look just like BN base layer until I have a closer look at the fungus. It's rubber like type of fungus and I recommended it to be removed with steel brush and water or any better suggestion?
*
Hi WW,

I don't think it will smell if do not use any chemicals with it.

But most kiln will use chemical for drying rubber wood and that will smell.

I was told we can choose to use either steam or heat by gas.

This post has been edited by Tweeter: Nov 4 2010, 02:07 PM
swift4ever
post Nov 3 2010, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(Tweeter @ Nov 3 2010, 07:06 PM)
Hi WW,

I don't think it will smell.
I was told we can choose to use either steam or heat by gas.
*
My advise is, don't try it! Let it dry the natural way with rain and shine in the open sky. When fungus develops, you can use EM or probably vinegar which I haven't tried yet.
mfyapp
post Nov 3 2010, 10:48 PM

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QUOTE(Tweeter @ Nov 3 2010, 07:06 PM)
Hi WW,

I don't think it will smell.
I was told we can choose to use either steam or heat by gas.
*
Maybe cement beam with groove is more resistance to mold. smile.gif
curtlai
post Nov 3 2010, 11:36 PM

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if you guys looking for Meranti Bukit planks. PM me.. as i work for my father in sawmill factory. we do supply swiftlet planks. smile.gif
kuching_farmer
post Nov 4 2010, 01:51 AM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ Nov 3 2010, 06:26 PM)
Just for my knowledge.

1. KILN DRIED planks. Do plank after kiln chamber drying produce any smell.
During old days, we insisted on sun dryed planks and not KD as we are afraid of the chemical if any in the chamber. Since I am no expert in the kiln chamber process, maybe you can enlighten me and maybe if good, I may also used KD planks.

2. I have seen some white fungus that grow in meranti wood and they look just like BN base layer until I have a closer look at the fungus. It's rubber like type of fungus and I recommended it to be removed with steel brush and water or any better suggestion?
*
Try on methanol. clear mouldy plank with clean cloth after that use another clean cloth to soak with methanol to wipe ultil the whole mouldy surface wet.Dont worrie about distubing birds and it will dry in a minute
swiftcurrent
post Nov 4 2010, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(Tweeter @ Nov 2 2010, 06:09 PM)
Hi Jackie Chow,

Since the temp and humidity that suit birds are also optimal conditions for mold too, how can we prevent mold from our plank , specially during this monsoon season?
*
Hi tweeter

planks get moldy only if they are moist over a prolong period due to contact with water or if they are not dried properly after they are sawn from the logs. As mentioned by aeiou, kiln dry is best if you have not installed the planks yet.

If the planks are dry enough the high humidity even at 95% is unlikely to cause molds. So make sure the planks are not moisted from mist humidifier or roof leaks etc.

I have no problem with my air dried red meranti as well. What type of wood are your planks? From the write-up you posted susceptabilty to molds also depends on wood types.

This post has been edited by swiftcurrent: Nov 4 2010, 11:43 AM
Tweeter
post Nov 4 2010, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(swiftcurrent @ Nov 4 2010, 10:28 AM)
Hi tweeter

planks get moldy only if they are moist over a prolong period due to contact with water or if they are not dried properly after they are sawn from the logs. As mentioned by aeiou, kiln dry is best if you have not installed the planks yet.

If the planks are dry enough the high humidity even at 95% is unlikely to cause molds. So make sure the planks are not moisted from mist humidifier or roof leaks etc.

I have no problem with my air dried red meranti as well. What type of wood are your planks? From the write-up you posted susceptabilty to molds also depends on wood types.
*
Hi Jackie

Thanks for your reply.
I plan to use dark red Meranti. Currently my planks are laid on floor for air dried, but with the recent heavy rain and flood around the area.
I am afraid it will be months before the weather is clear and the plank to be dried enough for use.

One of my friend' s BH humidity in the area shoot up to 97%RH!
aeiou228
post Nov 4 2010, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ Nov 3 2010, 06:26 PM)
Just for my knowledge.

1. KILN DRIED planks. Do plank after kiln chamber drying produce any smell.
During old days, we insisted on sun dryed planks and not KD as we are afraid of the chemical if any in the chamber. Since I am no expert in the kiln chamber process, maybe you can enlighten me and maybe if good, I may also used KD planks.

2. I have seen some white fungus that grow in meranti wood and they look just like BN base layer until I have a closer look at the fungus. It's rubber like type of fungus and I recommended it to be removed with steel brush and water or any better suggestion?
*
QUOTE(Tweeter @ Nov 4 2010, 01:28 PM)
Hi Jackie

Thanks for your reply.
I plan to use dark red Meranti. Currently my planks are laid on floor for air dried, but with the recent heavy rain and flood around the area.
I am afraid it will be months before the weather is clear and the plank to be dried enough for use.

One of my friend' s BH humidity in the area shoot up to 97%RH!
*
The following are some info sourced from a KD plant owner.

1) KD will lessen the smell of the freshly cut planks.
2) No chemical added. Just steam it then exhaust then steam it then exhaust again and again for 2 to 3 weeks depending on moisture content % required and species.
3) Normally for nesting planks, they will KD it till 20% moisture content and as for export timber, 18%-19%. No such thing as 0%
4) Export timber must KD. Because the overseas buyers insisted it. KD timber last longer due to its low moisture content and most timber pests, larvae, mold spores inside the timber had been eliminated during KD process.
5) Air dry takes min 3 months depending on species.

QUOTE(West Wing @ Nov 3 2010, 06:26 PM)
Just for my knowledge.
2. I have seen some white fungus that grow in meranti wood and they look just like BN base layer until I have a closer look at the fungus. It's rubber like type of fungus and I recommended it to be removed with steel brush and water or any better suggestion?
*
Do you reckon heat gun blowing hot air at 400C setting do the trick ? At least 400C can melt a rubber. tongue.gif



This post has been edited by aeiou228: Nov 4 2010, 05:12 PM
CWG
post Nov 4 2010, 05:22 PM

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how much is the KD process
West Wing
post Nov 7 2010, 07:14 AM

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QUOTE(CWG @ Nov 4 2010, 05:22 PM)
how much is the KD process
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Hi friends, I M still on on Buz in China but I M concerned about the KD as during our time, it's a No No with KD process unless many here have tried LD and success.

Chemical may not be used but the KD has been using chemical for export timeber and alot of Chemical residue are present in the KD and so when you steam the planks, the chemical will go to the plank and then become dry in the process causing the plank to first absorb the chemical then dry. This, I believe KD is fpr to chemically treat the timber in order to preserve them against termites.

Hope I am helping as that my only intention and be only be back after a week.
tuckfook
post Nov 7 2010, 08:23 AM

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There should be no difference between Kiln Drying and Air Drying as far as smell and final product is concerned.

Both process are basically similar with no chemicals being used. Kiln drying is 'forced' whereas air drying is natural.

In either case the wood will in your BH reach an equilibrium with the surround humidity and in the long run be of course reach 80% humidity or as you've set your BH humidity.

Kiln drying MIGHT kill some fungus and bacteria spores but the AIR, birds & cicaks will soon introduce them.

Do not confuse Kiln Drying with Tanalising ! this is a chemical treatment that preserves the wood with chemicals preventing fungus, bacteria and perhaps termites. Tanalised wood has a light greenish colour and becomes greyish over time. Look at the old wooden telephone poles ! Tanalised wood is of course more expensive.

Birds will nest on tanalised wood. Whether the chemical residue in tanalised wood is safe for human or otherwise is not known.

Red meranti is better than white meranti because of the presence of tannin, which is a natural preservative, which is of course 'TAN' or reddish brown in colour.

The "SMELL" in sawn planks comes from the lubricant used in sawing the planks. ALL SAWMILLS USE A LUBRICANT as otherwise the band saws will be worn down very quickly and the price of sawn timber will go up without this lubricant. The lubricant used ranges from used engine oil to cheap grease to used cooking oils. Much of this oil is picked up by the saw dust but I have no idea how much remains on the surface of the planks.

This is an almost impossible factor to control as it depends on the mill worker, whether he applies more or less oil during sawing. The mill will usually say they promise to try minimise the oil usage for you but !!!!!!!!!!!

Washing your nesting planks after installation will probably be your best bet to get rid of this lubricant. High pressure wash if you kiasu or just tap water as most of use have done.

Now rest this subject and move on to other more interesting subjects, which I will intro soon javascript:emoticon(':clap:')


aeiou228
post Nov 7 2010, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(CWG @ Nov 4 2010, 05:22 PM)
how much is the KD process
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The cost is RM100+ per ton (KD cost only) depending on moisture % required and species. I used 3 tons planks for 3 story BH and only cost extra RM350 to RM400 for peace of mind.
A KD chamber can't be used for chemical treatment. Wood treatment requires different chemical treatment plant and the miller will quote higher $$$ if want chemical treatment.
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mfyapp
post Nov 7 2010, 09:51 PM

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Ok guys since we are at the subject of humidity and temperature I want to ask if I used lightweight cement block for the wall do I still need to worry about second layer wall of polyform or some other material? Supplier say this AAC block is a very good thermal insulator. Any comment anyone?

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