Pro electric fences are Direct current driven and use the earth/ground as a conductor. Normally about 7500 to 15000 volts DC. The electricity is pulsed, at about 1 pulse a second. These are safety features so that an animal can theoretically escape when trapped by the conductor. By using the ground as a conductor, it ensures that the current flowing is very small as well as saving the necessity of another conductor. US, UK, Aust. legal requirements.

A neon transformer is usually Alternating current and the transformer is centre tapped, meaning when the transformer is operating, one conductor is +7500 v and the other is - 7500v so the voltage between both conductors is 15000v. The centre tap remains at 0v and is grounded so the voltage between any conductor and the ground is 7500v.
This is practically on all the time so any animal caught in any of the conductors will get electricity all the time.

When using a neon trans. shorting one wire to ground will leave the other wire still live, as can happen when grass, wet wood etc touches one wire.

All electric fences can be shorted. Shorting will not destroy an electric fence charger or neon trans as very little current flows so produces minimal heat, not enough for a transformer meltdown.

Multiple conductor fences will not short conductor to conductor but will short to ground, whereas the neon trans. will short conductor to conductor.

You'll need a very clean non conducting rope to not get a shock as water/sweat etc can turn the rope conducting. There are easier ways to enter a BH.

Many BHs in Penang use a 'Bed of nails' under the in/out hole so any unsuspecting wannabe burglar jumping in will get a painful reception. Some are using fish hooks instead of nails for nastier effect. Note that glass will show clearly when a light is shone over it whereas rusty nails and hooks may not.

tuck fook, thks for the elaboration
I suppose with an inverter the neon-type will work off a battery pack?
Am assuming the pro-type (DC) will work off the battery pack.
..maybe deep cycle ones?

Yes, all mine work of normal car lead acid batteries driving a cheap ups, so far no problems. The deep cycle batteries should give me better battery time as the voltage in normal starter batteries drop off very suddenly( ups will switch off) and quickly giving me about half the rated capacity(on higher amps draw) but then again we do not expect the main power to be off for so very long!

One 40Ah starter lead acid gives me about 2.5 hrs running a single 3 channel amp. with about 300 tweeters on internal sound.

One 70Ah starter lead acid gives me 1 hr. running a 16 channel DVR with external HDD. No monitor running.

One 7Ah deep cycle gives me more than 6 hrs running 2 cameras or 45mins. with the night vision leds(40) on.

One 70 Ah starter lead acid gives me more than 10 hrs with a neon trans.

one 7Ah deep cycle gives me more 3 days with an alarm system

So anyone planning to raid my place, I've got you on candid camera being lit up with 15000volts and if that's not enough, it'll be on youtube and facebook.

BTW you can also buy battery operated fence chargers, just leave them on charger all the time.

That brings us to CCTVs and alarms
Does your night vision enabled CCTV run full time or upon sensor being triggered?
And it's IP connected too? Wired or wireless?
I am hoping to put together a 'ultimate' remote enabled system based on easily available technology.
When I last investigated a year ago, there were Chinese made camera systems that sends off shots upon triggering (PIR sensors).
Option of sending the shots to a predetermined web site or hand phone or both.
Even an option of handphone triggering a recorded voice message in situ in reaction.
Comes in a package of camera/s, sensors and a control unit.
You need to only plug in a GSM SIM card. (I was warned of the then incompatibility of Chinese GSM SIM and our local ones)
Just wasnt sure if they are being used locally and it's reliability.

Waaa...it's getting very high tech for an old man like me but it's very good for the industry. Never know that we have all kind of experts around to help us with the burglars. Don't worry, I am catching up and you all just go on and all must thank TF and Sifus around here that care and help. God bless you all with lots of nests....swiftlets's one i mean and not the swallow type.

Carry on and I am learning good. Thanks

ps. just maybe, other Sifu with knowledge on BH construction or recommending Bird sounds and other relevent suggestions like better way for harvesting, all for the better of all in the industry. We all share, don't we?

Agree that we have many in-house experts.

Thanks an lot WW, Tuckfook, Cergau etc.

Can we use live 240VAC with let' say 500mA MCB if available?



This post has been edited by coolandy: Oct 3 2010, 04:59 PM

There are systems(INOX) made in Malaysia under license from Canadian companies which I think is more reliable than most Chinese systems. Some Chinese systems are also copies of such foreign companies, especially the DVR cards for PCs.

Pricing of systems for such made in Malaysia items are quite competitive with Chinese products and what is more important is the after sales support and warranties. Of course Chinese made systems are not usually guaranteed . Cheap but you take the risk. Some good reliable Chinese brands(Lilin) available too but not cheap.

Cameras run all the time as that avoids the start up lag and sometimes problems with camera to DVR connections.

Recording when the alarm is triggered, in my opinion is pointless as it saves nothing. The HDD is always running and the cameras are always running only the recording to HDD is triggered. As for HDD space, 1 TB is so cheap nowadays, it will allow more than 20 days continuous recording on 8 cameras at highest resolution (720 x 540 ??) 6 frames per sec. So I use continuous recording with the HDD written over when full, erasing from the earliest.

Note that if someone breaks into your BH they will usually take the DVR with them to avoid being caught by the video recording.

If you have a fast ISP then fulltime IP connection will be good. Almost all new DVR come with IP connectability inbuilt. If you do not have unlimited broadband usage, be prepared for a large bill ! Similarly with systems that send MMS to phones, be prepared for big bills.

You will soon get bored at looking up your IP cams showing the same thing all the time.

GSM dailling alarms are the in thing nowadays. It'll warn you of every situation you need to know about, by sms or phone call and your pre recorded message. Here the Made in China system(SHIKE) are quite good and reliable, only don't buy the ultra cheap models, buy a decent reputable brand which you can gauge from their website.

On site voice recording reaction to alarm triggering is probably a waste of time as the intruder can easily tell the difference especially in a BH which is usually unoccupied.

No compatibility problems with sim cards, besides they should be the same worldwide.

I do not use PIR motion sensors in the alarm system as they are prone to all sorts of false triggering that will keep you awake most nights. I just use magnetic door switches and vibration sensors. All are wireless so easy to set up but have to change batteries every 8 months or so.

---

Added on October 3, 2010, 10:29 pmUsing live 240VAC would be very dangerous and probably against the law.

If a RCCB is used, it'll defeat the purpose and any fuse set to break the current flow also defeats the purpose.

Some people use a 1:1 isolating transformer to avoid tripping the RCCB but the current from such a transformer will also usually kill.

At 240V many insulators will work well whereas at 15000v not many insulators work !

This post has been edited by tuckfook: Oct 3 2010, 10:29 PM

While doing my harvesting last Sunday I came across a strange thing, there were 4 eggs in one of the nest. The last time I harvested was more than a month ago. So it is unlikely to be any of the birds in my bh that have lost their nest. The possibility is that it could be another bh's bird that has lost its nest and laid its eggs in one of the nests in desperation. Then the nest owner also lay another 2 eggs.

I didn't think much about it but later I realised that I should have shifted my CCTV over and see what's going to happen next, would we have 2 adult parents bringing up 4 chicks. So far we usually see 1 or 2 eggs, sometimes 3. This is the first time I come across 4. Anyone has similar experience?


Another thing I found was that one of the featherless chick had climbed out of its nest, up the plank to the edge of the ceiling. It looked hungry. I put it back to the nest. On hindsight I should have placed it in another nest where there are chicks of similar maturity for the reason that the chick may not belong to the nest that I put it in, and/or the parents could be MIA. I wonder if the new parent will accept an extra chick.

This post has been edited by swiftcurrent: Oct 4 2010, 02:56 PM

There is no way for the parent to bring up 4 chicks and even at 3, it is already very difficult. I haven't found one nest having 3 eggs in my BHs and maybe because I never take unused nests and always allow the birds to fledged before taking the nests....unless your is the hot dog type of nest which is made by afew pairs of birds at the same location. Maybe, your's is the starting of a new species of EBN swiftlets and since you are the founder; you got the right to give it a name.........hahahaha.

Although there are really many possibilities, maybe some here have similar happenings and can give an reason for the 4 eggs in the " nest riddle".

Taking about EBN price, here, it was Rm4700, 5 days ago and Rm4600 3 days ago but some information that other places are selling them @ Rm4300, wonder if it is the work of Indo magician @ work. I should have sold mine for Rm4750 when offered last week....sob

Which part of malaysia is best for BH ?

i think north east or west peninsular malaysia is the best. Of course, sarawak is heaven of bird nest farming now.

i think just need to wait till november, the price will bounce back cos getting ready for new year esp. chinese new year. furthermore, no more big harvest at that time.

[quote=West Wing,Oct 4 2010, 03:34 PM]
QUOTE]unless your is the hot dog type of nest which is made by afew pairs of birds at the same location. Maybe, your's is the starting of a new species of EBN swiftlets and since you are the founder; you got the right to give it a name.........hahahaha.[QUOTE]

It certainly wasn't the hotdog nest but 1 nest by itself, I was pretty amused too when I saw 4 eggs, really regretted that I did not think of setting up my cctv to monitor it. Now I can't even remember the nest's location unless I do another round again which means disturbing them which I don't want to. Hope next time I have the chance again. It would have been interesting to find out if it would be the case of 2 sets of parents fighting over the 4 eggs or one set of parent raising 4 chicks. Would be an honour to name it Aerodramus jackiephagus.

4 eggs should not be surprising, it is whether they can all hatch and whether the parent can successfully raise them. Multiple births out of the norm do occur in all living creatures including human, for instance

Nonuplets (9 babies born at the same time)

Birth Date: March 26 1999
Birth Place: Malaysia
Note: non of the new borns survived more than 6 hrs

Decaplets Are 10 Babies Born At The Same Time Are Decaplets

Decaplets is the highest number of multiples to be BORN at one time. Though higher multiples have been CONCEIVED, ten is the most to be born.
Decaplet Cases:
Birth Date: April 22, 1946
Birth Place: Brazil
There were 2 girls and 8 boys. Whether they survived or not was never recorded.

This post has been edited by swiftcurrent: Oct 4 2010, 08:49 PM

I have seen 4 eggs all hatched to be full grown adults. Incredible but true. It is not common though.

Wau, no wonder that your EBN is big to hold 4 chicks. Coming to surprises, only this morning a friend ( new Biz) phone me up from KB and ask the following questions.

1. How come his BH in KB has so many birds entering but no nests.

2. Why did the birds lay their eggs on the floor at the BH in KB. ( about 30 eggs were found at the floor in the BH when he visited the BH yesterday.)

I laughed and ask if he is joking or what and he told me that all his friends also laughed at his words? He pleaded with me for answers.

My reply is that .

Your BH must be in a row of shoplots and he replied "yes"
Since he is from JB and his BH is in KB and a care taker was paid to take care of the BH.

From what he told me that he has fake nests in his BH and therefore, there are no possibly that the birds will lay eggs on the floor and swiftlets cannot stand on the floor and not to mention laying egg on the floor. So, the riddle of the eggs on the floor unbroken must have being left there by someone removing the nests and still have the heart to leave you with your offspring if you care to breed....he must be a joker of the greatest kind.

Any bright reason for the "Eggs on the floor" riddle?????

Nest stolen?
Eggs ejected because of fright?

Wonder what'sext from WW? Million $ Qs.

I believe that the eggs on the floor are likely to be due to being ejected by startled bird leaving the nests in fright. I have picked up chicks that just fell from the floor after I enter my bh. It looks like the birds are subjected to sudden noises or something that caused them to jump out of their nest. So the best is to check for source of frequent and sudden noises or sudden intrusion that cause the birds to be startled.

If no source of disturbances then sorry lah, have to check the caretaker

Missed a foot and fall, we all have seen it and are very common in BH.

Bad eggs and occasionally, accidental eggs falling off the nests do occur but never 30 eggs. If the BH is not suitable for the birds in the first place, the birds will not stay in the bh and still lay eggs and where are the nests?

Coming monsoon time, there will certainly be some dead chicks and bad eggs due to cold weather and parent birds unable to return to feed the chicks because of the heavy monsoon rain. I strongly urge all owners not to do what the buyers want to is to harvest the nests and throw away the eggs. According to them, the eggs will not hatch anyway but I disagree with them and only agree that some will be bad eggs and dead chicks but some will survive to see the day.

One buyer is already telling me that next harvest will be near and the nests will be white. As for me, I let God decide if the chicks should live or die and let nature run it course. I won't want to dirty my hand and soul for a million ringgit.

Hi WW & all the sifus here
Yr johore friend should checked whether the planks in his Bh in KB has signs of bird nests being harvested.
If he has not harvested then he know they is someone harvesting on his behalf . Not necessary the caretaker unless he has keys to the inside of the BH .
Thank you Tuck Fook for sharing the security features. For a really successful BH armed guards are necessary . The associations can voiced BH owners predicament n maybe help to facilitate firearms applications in remote farms!

Using a professional armed guard service would be ideal for a cluster of farms. All the alarms linked to the guard service and guards to make periodic rounds. That would be the Police's recommendation also.

Facilitate firearms applications ? That would be next to impossible ! Firearms approvals to individuals is amongst the most difficult to obtain besides would the owner be prepared to shoot an intruder ? Firearms are for self protection only and can only be used if one's life is being threatened.

There are already many firearms issued to many who are incompetent in the handling of such dangerous weapons.

I vote that the eggs were 'Kindly' left behind by someone who took the nests. Doesn't make any sense otherwise.

Many years ago, my dad was admitted to specialist centre and was diagnose with bone cancer and must be operated immediately. I argued that it is only swelling and pain from the a fall a day before. The bone specialist asked me who is the specialist, me or him? So, my father was operated on and sample send to KL for evaluation and meanwhile, given so many antibiotic for the bone cancer but then after a week, the sample returned negative.

I went to see another specialist on how came a specialist make such mistake but got this follow replied, """"We DOCTOR are not GOD and we do make mistake and you should have gone to 3 specialists before deciding for the operation..........Yeh, it was my mistake!!!"

The moral of the story is that when the consultant tell you to renovate when your BH failed, check with 2 more before deciding. Only if the 3 consultants concurred, then you may decide to re-do your BH as it's costly.
Otherewise, when fail again.....the consultant will tell you that they are not GOD and do make mistake....

Sometime, it's only time and you may have to wait a little longer and maybe, what the consultant did may even make it worst...just beware!!! Get at least a few advices before deciding cos out of the pot into the fire maybe and it's smarter to rethink and get more suggestions.

Did I told you of a BH which is in a core area and all his neighbours are having thousand of nest except his and he keep on renovating and renovating and still fail until he got the cancer and cannot go into the BH and after a year, his BH is successful but then he is no longer around to see it as he is RIP. He will be happy to see if he can!!!!!