Have a coffee talk with the President Dato this morning on the 1GP and was told that he has spoken to the MB and that the state of Trg should have a standardise regulation for the BH for the whole state. He assured me that it OK to build higher BH @ agriland but maybe for Trg and his words only.....and if the GP is not for the whole country, then why having the National GP if it's not enforce and that any state can has its own regulations. It's back to square one.


What is the most important of all is that we need to keep peace and harmony ot otherwise no matter what are agreed or allowed, if the raayat disapprove of it, we are as good as dead and gone!!!! So, be considerate and kind to your neighbours and that remember that the area doesn't belong to you alone. Never build one near residential area and if you are already there, ensure that your tweeters aren't diverted toward the residence area and that the night sound are cut off during the night. I still remember that one senior officer once told me that even if the GP allows you but if more than 3 people complain over your BH, the authorities will need to take action on your BH........ If you want to have 24 hrs and loud V, then build one in the middle of your plantation so that you will disturb no one but the owls and snakes and they will surely hear the calls of the chicks and venture into your BH for a meal or two.

Don't wait for the authority to issue you with a order then you panic and seek the help of the local association chief and maybe then, it is too late cos your BH may by then already gone.

What's about other places and I think that it's best to forward here if there is problem, then at least the government esp. PM's men do know and may able to solve our problems as PM is 100% behind the industry and 1Malaysia concept. PM wants us to know that he cares and we do want him to know and help if he cares.

All,

I have created a Forum maybe a year ago. Now more and more people participate in the forum and the topic that discuss also quite informative. You can create sub-topic as you wise. Nobody stop you. But if you want to create a main topic, just email me. cheinwoei.gee@gmail.com

Just register as a member and you can be one of them. Please use Google Chrome or FireFox to log in. Internal Explorer has problem to excess.

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I have seen electrical fences installed at those oil palm plantations encroaching into the wilderness.
Also there are quite a few smallholders who install those off the shelf electrical fences to keep away pests like wildboars.
You can g**le for them in BM, they are mostly written up in their blogs.
I dun think they are 'live' but stepped down to low amps but high voltage.

1GP contents.
1)Building height.
We'll leave that aside until more clarity available on the basis of such requirement.

2)GAHP requirements. (Section 4.4)
It's already a requirement to attend GAHP for swiftlets by DVS ...why is it necessary to transcribe the GAHP contents onto the 1GP.
It's superfluous and leaves room for selective interpretation.
It's like the ISA, when it was debated in Parliament assurances were given that it was meant for terrorist, see what's happening today.
I feel we shd not have contents whose enforcement depend on the goodwill and interpretation of the authorities.
That aside, it's repetitive and cluttering the 1GP.
What if the PBTs now want to transcribe all their local acts into the 1GP!!!
Eg
Kepakaran dan Tanggungjawab Pengusaha
It;s the owner's responsibility to ensure that workers/operators are sufficiently skilled including identifying possible symptoms of sick birds.
Does attending GAHP make them so, if not then why make us sit through the GAHP where feedback is almost unanimous that's it's useless and merely something to tolerate.
The permutations of a skilled worker is endless and CAN become a reason for turning down a licence.
I say no to such 'open-ended' conditions.... else define it...what constitute a skilled worker.
If they want to make the 1GP meaningful then define/remove these 'open ended' conditions and make it clear and simpler for us to adhere to.

Electrification, as long as it not directly connected to the TNB grid, there is no law against electrification.

I use a neon transformer, 15,000volts across 2 wires and 7500 volts to earth. It zaps owls, cicaks and other unwanted guests.

Humans might find the voltage somewhat uncomfortable but it does not kill directly, the fall might !

Smarter unwanted human guests have learnt to short circuit the system, hence the 2 live wires to earth system. In any case as soon as the system is shorted the alarm will be triggered.




Cergau, you should be in Politics or at the very least a Senior officer in the Civil Service.

Open ended, ambiguous, undefined, non specific with lots of room for selective interpretation is oil for the govt. machinery. Grease it and it moves !

Such regulations works both ways. So it can be mutually beneficial.

But seriously, it is all mainly due to the lack of expertise of the officers who recommended and penned the regulations plus the influence of business contacts, YBs, Tan Sris, Dato dato dll. who try to direct things for their personal agendas.

Are we expected to adhere to all or be seen to be seemingly adhering !

Without doubt, the local councils will try to introduce and maintain their own regulations for the industry. Because the local councils are political, they are open to all sorts of unprofessional influence, then making the regulations biased is obviously up to everyone. Is this not a form of democracy ?

So back to "Kepakaran dan Tanggungjawab Pengusaha" imagine I employ an 'idiot' to harvest nests, in my honest opinion this 'idiot' is fully capable and considerably experienced to the the job, so I fulfill the requirements admirably. OTOH I, might be considered and idiot in comparison to Steven Hawking.

So, you ask why make such regulations, well simply because they have to be seen to be seemingly intelligently doing their jobs or else our tax money is not seemingly well spent and if my uncle makes magnetic identification tags but business is slow, I might want to get the law to force everyone to ensure that their birds wear id tags. As long as you have proof of purchase of the tags, it will not matter if the birds are wearing them, we'll assume that they are!

Waste not your time seeking UTOPIA for it does not exist physically.

Thanks to all sifus,
What is current market price for raw cup nest & corner nest? Anyone have unprocessed broken pieces bird nest (big and small also can)?

Hello Dr Tuck Fook,

I am a university student from Australia working collaboratively with USM students. We are looking at the how swiftlet farming makes up part of Georgetown's living heritage.

We were wondering if you would be willing to answer some questions regarding swiftlet farming. We would also like to see the swiftlet farming industry and how it works. If you have any resources that could see this possible, it would be greatly appreciated. Time and locations will not be a problem for us.

Thanks

Tim

It should state that it is the responsibility of the owner to ensure that the workers follow certain procedures and conditions like no harm must come to the chicks or the eggs and to ensure that harvesting is done properly and right time. To me, Tagging of swiftlet is really the joke of the century.


I often told my friends in the field that I will try to make the swifltlets BH as natural as possible so as to prevent any stress to the birds. Like happy workers, the birds will start producing nests once they settle down. To me, agriculture BHs need not the same as the town's as they are away from human being and as such, the requirement should be more toward that of the swiftlet's requirements and conditions......prefect sanctuary.

If we are to consider cleaning our agriculture BH every month, then it will be a waste of time, money and effort not to mention disturbing the birds thus creating lesser production and increment of nests. The birds like the way it is but because we are in town where there are also human being, we need to compromise on win win term although, it's best to leave the bird at peace to to do their things ...

I really have alot of idea on how to solve town BH problems if the authorities wish to listen and some money needed to be spend and this don't go well with some BH owners. They may curse me for bringing it up but then to me, I feel that we just can't sweep the problem pertaining to the town's BHs under the carpet and it's best to solve it so that all will live in harmony and peace shall prevail.

There are nothing that cannot be solve in the matter if all are willing to give and take and compromised if needed. Lastly, I wish to state here is that I would prefer if the govt only ensure some regulations and requirements for the town's BH but leave more space for the agriculture ones to grow or otherwise with too many restrictions, requirements and conditions, I can't see a bright future for the industry even thought there are really so many interested Malaysian willing to venture into this industry and as we talk, properties like land is rocketing up and up and developers and contractors are cashing in the industry. If the Govt do properly nurture the industry, it may be bring so many downstream buz that we can imagine.

I would like to bring in some points from Dato' Tok address at K Trg on GP1 on 26-28 September2010.

1.The government wishes to see the industry grow and expand to the area surrounding the town, kampung, ladang and even padi field. With this industry, it will bring up many poor kampung folks from poverty. Alot of kampung's land is being wasted and should be converted to BH to bring income to the owner.
2.Tujuan Lesen is to regulate the industry but not to seek HASIL TAMBAHAN.
3. 1GP is to give opportunity to the raayat to get new source of income and to regulate the industry in a healthy environment.
4. Departments are to assist and provide advice and solution to the industry on how to maximize output and to strengthen the industry which is the aim of the present government in mind.

---

Added on September 29, 2010, 10:11 amR U a Buyer and if you are, then what's the offer for the broken nests and maybe, I can get you what you want and of course, only if the price is good.

Current price????? Now, Indo buyers are trying to push the price down and unless China buyers and Vietnam buyers are here then we are in serious trouble as they maybe ganging up for a kill.....meaning forcing the price to go down and each time by Rm200 per KG......if you remember the last time when the price drop to Rm1*** per KG............I was lucky then as I stay put and stock up and I made profit. Hope this time, I will be lucky again.

The Indo agents are giving alot of excuses for it and many owners have taken the bites and sell low. If there are ready sellers for the low price, the price will definitely keep dropping and dropping....and I am holding as far as I can but I don't know how long I can hold.

Best way is to group up and sell directly to China but till now, Veterinary Dept. still do not know what and how to do it so if anyone here do know of the legal way to export, kindly let us know so that we, the BH owners will not be at the mercy of the Indo Buyers. The more buyers, the better for us.....that's what I think it should be unless someone here think otherwise. Do Share, man.



This post has been edited by West Wing: Sep 29 2010, 10:11 AM

i'm a wholeseller, processor and also a farmer. i buy for own processing not for trading raw material. of course, sometimes, i do sell raw material too esp. those from thailand. veitnamese so far interested those very low grade nest i.e. black, heavy feather or 2layer nest. simply due bcos they need it to train their workers and process it into bottle for thier local market
as for exportation to china, you can only export process nest (NOT raw material) due to amonia content in the raw material, it is not passing the test. Secondly, export to china very costly even u have tax free form.

legal exportation to china,
a. doc from malaysia
i. test cert
ii. health cert from veterinian
iii. health cert from perhilitan
iv. export permit
v. tax free form
vi. shipment document

b. doc from china
i. import permit
ii. VAT license

Tuck Fook, my friend,

I got the following information from internet and is what you mean by neon transformer the same as the following as I was really interested in making one for my coming soon agriculture BH fencing.(Neon sign transformer From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Electrocution - The shock from a neon sign transformer could be lethal. The high voltage allows a large current to flow, even with light contact against dry skin. The transformer is current-limited, but typically to a level well above the threshold for ventricular fibrilation. Disconnect power to the transformer before servicing. Use appropriate insulation around connections; typical insulation, including standard electrical tape and most insulated wire, is rated only for much lower voltages.........

This post has been edited by West Wing: Sep 29 2010, 08:48 PM

Yes you are correct.

ventricular fibrilation treshold is not the same for everyone, which is why the TASER (as used by Police) has also killed when it supposedly safe.

If voltage and current levels are kept to a "safe" level then we might as well not use it as it will be ineffective.

In Malaysia, because of the high humidity and the presence of perspiration on the skin, much of the electricity will flow on the outside of the body and not through the chest.

To make the neon transformer safer, sometimes a small wattage light bulb is placed in series with the output so as to limit the current but by then it may not be good enough to fry a cicak.

You can also get a step up transformer as used for fly zappers that are about 4000 volts but again the current could be high enough to kill the right person.

Commercially available electric fences are so weak that they are ineffective, giving as much of a zap as a car ignition spark.

Do not use direct connections to the mains as even though the voltage is low, the current, up to 60amps. normally, will certainly fry somebody.

Whichever method, it is only a deterrent and can be quite easily defeated by the knowledgeable.

What's about Flyback Trans that you may get FOC from old TV set and the Arc of High Voltage will definitely scare away any predators even human, for the fence, I mean and not for the entrance hole cos you will zap the swiftlets as well.

Any danger of it but once hit, always remember cos I got it once thirty years ago and still remember it.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Sep 30 2010, 05:20 PM

Hi,

I am from the east coast. Just have my first harvest from my birdhouse. Just asking, any good good buyer from this region?

thanks.

now price dropping simply due to our currency stronger than before. so no indon come to 'sapu', so the market plenty of stock now. furthermore, now is major harvesting season. after this season, not much harvest due to storm and heavy rain esp. in east coast.

Flyback trans normally have a higher voltage, typically 20Kv to 50Kv and it will definitely arc especially in wet conditions.

These flyback trans are made for the inside of TVs, crt etc and enjoy a protected environment. The neon trans is usually potted in epoxy or tar and impervious to bad weather. So a flyback trans will not last and be subject to arcing all over the place. Once it shorts it is useless.

Cheap if not free for high voltage projects but not durable and reliable for electric fences.

Sir, this year is far different from last year. This year we have rainy season since january. No more hot like last year until certain places suffer from draught. Our area here having trouble to harvest.

Congratulation! We normally keep the first batch of nests to give to relatives to try out and also for our own family to drink to the success of the BH.

For me, I still keep the first few pieces of first batch of nests from my first BH and although it's now yellow, but it bring back sweet memories of the days we used sit on the green or CCTV for hours to count the number of birds entering like 1,2,3,4,5, then -1 as one bird left and now, we can't be bothered at all to even count the nests. It's just like been the first time being a father and you are worried when no bird returns and so happy when you find traces of nests in the BH.

Buyers...still got but then very low price. If you don't have buyer and need now, PM me and I can supply you with some of the buyers' contact.

Hi all. Watch out for thieves. Reminded a friend of mine (who drove around buying nests) about security. No such thing as being too careful. There is such a thing as being paranoid though.

1GP. Simply said... better than the old one, but not up to par of SSP's. Someone mentioned about it being open ended... that is true in a sense, and totally untrue otherwise. WW, you must know details of the Terengganu meet (26-28th). UNFORTUNATELY out of all the 7 PBT's, the most important one didn't participate fully, MPKT. Sitting in a room full of PBT officials was fun. Real fun and an eye opener of sorts.

The existing laws, we've listed them down before... some are enforced, and some are not. One PBT dared not take action against errant BH owners in town since PERHILITAN cautioned them about animal cruelty. But hey... Perhilitan wasn't mentioned at all in the 1GP... /gg
Another PBT luluskan all 18 submissions of BH's to be built. I mean... 18/18... if it were 15/18 ok la.... this is 100% approval rate. SO... to me this all shows us that..... even the PBT have no idea!!! So its subject to 'budi bicara'. The 2006/7 KPKT guideline is no longer valid. TPM already chaired the jawatankuasa KPKT. 3 years grace? To me its just buying time to study the aftermaths of a new 1GP. One thing for sure... even the PBT officials now laugh when someone mentions;' pindahkan operasi rumah burung walit'..... even they know its crazy talk.

1GP is just a guide. The reason it was left open ended was because... in the end, it is still the PBT's with the juice, the undang-undang kecil, acts and enforcement. DVS will just 'advise'. That is why... if a state enactment existed... it will 'facilitate' the industry. Now is the time for associations to educate PBT's (if the state DVS doesn't), educate the politicians (yes, kalau YB kata ok, most of the time PBT will follow suit) and the general population.

The National Policy is to facilitate the birds nest industry... i see they have somehow managed to do so bits and pieces based on the 1GP... no more perhilitan, that was the top most priority... but until they remove it from the APHL... still not safe. The jurisdiction of DVS & PBT is clear, the demarcation i mean. the specifics... blur as usual. The issue now lies with the PBT's (which are, by common stereotyped thinking, kind of biased and corrupt). There are many things in the 1GP that can be discussed... the 50/20 distance, definitions of 'kawasan pusat bandar', kawasan akitiviti ekonomi and etc2. All that doesn't mean shit when you get a stop work order or compound. Lets get creative and find other ways of spreading the SSP spirit.

This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Oct 2 2010, 05:42 PM

I am quite curious, from my reading of the pro electrical fence used for cattle farming, the neutral is 'earthed'.
How does the perpetrator contacts both wires rappelling off your BH walls?
I believe with multiple 'live' it can't be shorted.
Was giving this some thought....the favorite entry... thru the LMB..can this be 'armed' if a non conductor rope is used to scale it?
Was thinking of a rope guillotine

Anyway my point was to leave these 'funny' conditions from where they came from...GAHP for swiftlets.
Attending GAHP alone fulfills the requirement.
Putting these 'funny' conditions as part of 1GP makes us liable to fulfill them.

Nudging them for decent service will be fine for the moment.

Hehe, 'nudging' is appropriate for now. When the time comes, full force might be necessary, especially when some ridiculous requirements still exist in the 1GP. With more and more professionals involved in the industry, more feedback can be given. Voices of SSP's carry more weight. Opportunities for people to gain monetary profits more open. DVS has its own sample unit in PLV Jerangau. Birds already sleeping in, no nests as of yet. I think its about 15x20 or something like that, 2 stories. Costing more or less Rm20,000 or so. The industry is open to all. Lets see what happens this coming few months. I'm sure some major changes will follow soon.

That's when CLEAR guidelines comes into play.
What's the problem with 100% approval rate. What if 100% adheres fully to the guidelines?
Does making 75% avg (or some other %) approval the real measure of serious evaluations?
Making the 25% applicants sweat cos' they can't approve beyond 75%?
I think not. This is pure bureaucratic BS.

No one wants additional NEW laws for SSPs.
Leaving some conditions to the PBTs is not open-ended. The PBTs DO have the relevant laws governing some activities.
That's been specific.
Eg 50/20m is for the PBTs to chose and enforce.
In the case of the GAHP, it is an end in itself and yet it is unspecific...there is no higher authority for these except DVS themselves.
Eg 4.4.1.6 Perihal Haiwan
How on earth does one provide sufficient food when the swiftlets are having difficulties getting enough?
How does one know? Does DVS provides courses for swiftlet-talk?
They are supposed to the the 'experts' providing the guidelines...who else do we ask? PBTs?.