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 The Official Subwoofer Thread v3, Everything you need to know about bass!

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TShtkaki
post Jul 19 2010, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(ycs @ Jul 19 2010, 09:44 AM)
is the show this week? got some details to share?

btw, is the new SVS amp there as well?
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Yes, it is. More info : http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1383495

The prototype power amp will be there as the new mass production lot is underway and might not be able to make it to the show.

There will be new SB subs on demo; entry level SB10-NSD which is attractively priced, SB12-NSD and the higher end SB13-Plus. On demo, would be the S-02 loudspeakers range.

Mr Ron Stimpson will be at the show. We shall hold a product launch briefing at 2pm on Saturday there.
ycs
post Jul 19 2010, 10:01 AM

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thanks. maybe go on friday when not so crowded.
jchong
post Jul 19 2010, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Jul 19 2010, 09:18 AM)
According to my Denon's Audassey, no. But according to Anfieldude's SPL meter, yes.
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Glad to see u enjoying the new toy. So you mean you left the Audyssey setting as is after the calibration (which should theoretically be at 75 dB), but anfield's SPL meter showed it to be 79-80 dB?
jchong
post Jul 19 2010, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Jul 18 2010, 10:27 PM)
Finally hooked up a PC13-Ultra to partner the resident PB13-Ultra yesterday. Result is not as what I hope for. There is a certain cancellation happening as well as sounds muddy rclxub.gif .

Did the calibration via AS-EQ1 this morning. 1 input and 2 sub outputs. As usual, EQ1 will get the desired dB from one of the front channels. Then, set the sub A's gain level to match it and continue by Sub B. After that, it's measuring process. The initial subwoofers matching is important.

Sweep tone to the front first, followed by Sub A and then Sub B. After that both sub together. Then, continued to do the rest of position. This time the sweep tone for the sub only 1 time (since it is being 'integrated' at position 1) for the rest of the positions. AS-EQ1 can do up to 32 positions.

Once it was done, I have to do channel level check again to get 75dB across all channels. it's time for some movies' test scenes. Tested Ip Man 2, TS, DTG and DF & Friends. In ULF heavy scene such as DTG's restaurant fight, TS' 7 Eleven, Kung Fu Panda, TDK as well as DH4.0 .

shocking.gif In TS' 7 Eleven, the robot stomping the ground has so much weight and floor rumbling. The door was being pushed open. It happens again for Ip Man2, DTG and Kung Fu Panda.

My customers were  shocking.gif with its sheer power. The atmosphere..... ambiance would be the ideal word, certainly up a notch. The bass is so crazy tight and powerful even at -12dB to -15dB. At my LP, I can feel that my shirt moved thumbup.gif
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Glad to see things working much better after the AS-EQ1. Yeah, having it would make integrating 2 subs much easier. If not integrated well, having 2 subs can adversely affect bass quality.

Now I'm getting tempted by the AS-EQ1 again smile.gif Maybe gotta borrow it again to see how it can integrate my 2 subs.
chewkl
post Jul 19 2010, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Jul 19 2010, 12:40 PM)
Glad to see u enjoying the new toy. So you mean you left the Audyssey setting as is after the calibration (which should theoretically be at 75 dB), but anfield's SPL meter showed it to be 79-80 dB?
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Exactly. I also needed to add about 1.5 to 2dB for both my surrounds after Audassey calibration looking at the SPL meter.
anfieldude
post Jul 19 2010, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Jul 19 2010, 12:47 PM)
Exactly. I also needed to add about 1.5 to 2dB for both my surrounds after Audassey calibration looking at the SPL meter.
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Actually the rest were somewhere 78dB and the sub was almost hitting 82dB. The surrounds were only at 76dB. Surround resolution is better with MultiEQ XT compared to MultiEQ.
jchong
post Jul 19 2010, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Jul 19 2010, 01:50 PM)
Actually the rest were somewhere 78dB and the sub was almost hitting 82dB. The surrounds were only at 76dB. Surround resolution is better with MultiEQ XT compared to MultiEQ.
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Quite a bit of variance there between the LCR, sub and surrounds. I remember using your CM140 to check my levels after running Audyssey. LCR and surrounds were within +/- 1 dB of 75 dB, while my sub reading was fluctuation between 76-78 dB.
anfieldude
post Jul 19 2010, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Jul 19 2010, 02:09 PM)
Quite a bit of variance there between the LCR, sub and surrounds. I remember using your CM140 to check my levels after running Audyssey. LCR and surrounds were within +/- 1 dB of 75 dB, while my sub reading was fluctuation between 76-78 dB.
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jchong,

His surrounds are mounted at the back wall, and the chair is also against the wall. This is bound to cause some problems with the readings. Coupled with less resolution of the MultiEQ, there can be variances depending on the positioning of the 1st mic position.

When I do mine, there differences between the LCR/Sr are typically less than +/- 1.5dB.
jchong
post Jul 19 2010, 02:48 PM

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Ah, thanks for the additional info.
chewkl
post Jul 19 2010, 03:11 PM

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Come to think of it, now I feel that my surrounds seem to be overpowering the fronts when I watched DF&F last night. Or maybe I am too used to it with lower surround volume levels as my son would watch it every night without fail. sweat.gif
anfieldude
post Jul 19 2010, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Jul 19 2010, 03:11 PM)
Come to think of it, now I feel that my surrounds seem to be overpowering the fronts when I watched DF&F last night. Or maybe I am too used to it with lower surround volume levels as my son would watch it every night without fail. sweat.gif
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It is better to push the chair slightly front to stay away from the back wall, but in ur case that is not possible.

I will check again when I complete the cal, but it shd not be overpowering. If it is overpowering, would suggest to reduce 1dB for both sides.
chewkl
post Jul 19 2010, 03:30 PM

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Thanks bro...will experiment and see tonight.

My place is really bad for HT setup...sad.gif
TShtkaki
post Jul 19 2010, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Jul 19 2010, 12:44 PM)
Glad to see things working much better after the AS-EQ1. Yeah, having it would make integrating 2 subs much easier. If not integrated well, having 2 subs can adversely affect bass quality.

Now I'm getting tempted by the AS-EQ1 again smile.gif Maybe gotta borrow it again to see how it can integrate my 2 subs.
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Yes, it does improve by a big margin. I did not do any positioning for the PC13-Ultra. Just plonked it on the other side.

I must confess that I am hooked to dual subs. Eerrr.... probably quad subs as next project. That would be in my own home.
lightning69
post Jul 20 2010, 12:21 AM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Jul 18 2010, 10:58 PM)
Those elite audiophile uncles were also 'caught off guard' when I called them to come over and audition. They knew that I will set it up but never expected it to be so good. They are itching all over. It is indeed comforting to know that a single PB13-Ultra fares better than a renowned US subwoofer that has won many awards previously. They all agreed that the PB13-Ultra is indeed very good in performance and surprisingly clean (you would have know in tongue.gif ) Then again, SVS subs had won the Editors' Choice Award for 2008 and 2009. Hopefully, it will be a consecutive win for next year with its brand new SB subs.

The Wilson Audio uncle is definitely getting one thumbup.gif

The PB12-NSD is powerful indeed. If I must quote, there isn't any sub RM4.5K sub in the market that can match its ability to dig to 20Hz. Not even a renowned US 15" ported sub or even the higher range sealed sub that cost abt RM5K can do this feat as both would have roll-off at about 30Hz or so. Do you notice how clean and well controlled the PB12-NSD is?  rolleyes.gif
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I would disagree with you on this after testing out the Paradigm. It should out perform the PB12-NSD and its cost almost the same too. In fact the paradigm can stand on its own against the SVS PC-12Plus.
gigco04
post Jul 20 2010, 04:00 AM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Jul 18 2010, 10:58 PM)
Those elite audiophile uncles were also 'caught off guard' when I called them to come over and audition. They knew that I will set it up but never expected it to be so good. They are itching all over. It is indeed comforting to know that a single PB13-Ultra fares better than a renowned US subwoofer that has won many awards previously. They all agreed that the PB13-Ultra is indeed very good in performance and surprisingly clean (you would have know in tongue.gif ) Then again, SVS subs had won the Editors' Choice Award for 2008 and 2009. Hopefully, it will be a consecutive win for next year with its brand new SB subs.

The Wilson Audio uncle is definitely getting one thumbup.gif

The PB12-NSD is powerful indeed. If I must quote, there isn't any sub RM4.5K sub in the market that can match its ability to dig to 20Hz. Not even a renowned US 15" ported sub or even the higher range sealed sub that cost abt RM5K can do this feat as both would have roll-off at about 30Hz or so. Do you notice how clean and well controlled the PB12-NSD is?  rolleyes.gif
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Yeahhhhhh... thumbup.gif go PB12-NSD go.. thumbup.gif I'm with u bro.
TShtkaki
post Jul 20 2010, 08:54 AM

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QUOTE(lightning69 @ Jul 20 2010, 12:21 AM)
I would disagree with you on this after testing out the Paradigm.  It should out perform the PB12-NSD and its cost almost the same too.  In fact the paradigm can stand on its own against the SVS PC-12Plus.
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I doubt it would but everyone is entitles to his opinion smile.gif Don't get me wrong. I hold high regards for Paradigm.

I have never run the PC12-Plus at 12 o'clock. It is insanely loud. IIRC, for all the PC12-Plus that I have sold, not even one at 12 o'clock setting after calibration including SPL meter unless the owner prefers to run very hot.

Bro, may i ask you to do a test again? smile.gif Subwoofer testing is not as easy as it seems. While many argue that it is omni-directional, experiments have proven otherwise. It is very important to get the correct placement for comparison. If the avr's internal room correction device, be it YPAO, Audyssey, MCACC, etc has been used for calibrating the the previous system, you need to run again.

Find an optimal position for both subs. Then, check all the settings on the sub including phase. Run the auto room correction software. Then, start the test.

It is time consuming but it is fun to do so except when you have back breaking subs sweat.gif




mpyw
post Jul 20 2010, 09:50 AM

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if your SVS selling at USA's price....no one would complain lar tongue.gif

but in reality, we are here in bolehland...unless you can convince SVS to setup a plant here tongue.gif but folks at East M'sia still need to pay higher price due to shipping lar......hay, why not setup in East M'sia...they have lots of land there......tongue.gif
chewkl
post Jul 20 2010, 10:06 AM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Jul 20 2010, 08:54 AM)
I doubt it would but everyone is entitles to his opinion smile.gif Don't get me wrong. I hold high regards for Paradigm.

I have never run the PC12-Plus at 12 o'clock. It is insanely loud. IIRC, for all the PC12-Plus that I have sold, not even one at 12 o'clock setting after calibration including SPL meter unless the owner prefers to run very hot.

Bro, may i ask you to do a test again? smile.gif Subwoofer testing is not as easy as it seems. While many argue that it is omni-directional, experiments have proven otherwise. It is very important to get the correct placement for comparison. If the avr's internal room correction device, be it YPAO, Audyssey, MCACC, etc has been used for calibrating the the previous system, you need to run again.

Find an optimal position for both subs. Then, check all the settings on the sub including phase. Run the auto room correction software. Then, start the test.

It is time consuming but it is fun to do so except when you have back breaking subs  sweat.gif
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Peasant wanna comment that with previous SW-250, I can clearly tell where the sub is. With the PB12-NSD, the bass just fills the room. thumbup.gif
jchong
post Jul 20 2010, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(mpyw @ Jul 20 2010, 09:50 AM)
if your SVS selling at USA's price....no one would complain lar tongue.gif

but in reality, we are here in bolehland...unless you can convince SVS to setup a plant here tongue.gif but folks at East M'sia still need to pay higher price due to shipping lar......hay, why not setup in East M'sia...they have lots of land there......tongue.gif
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MY not as competitive as China or Indo-China. How to get new factories to set up here? smile.gif
pierreye
post Jul 20 2010, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(mpyw @ Jul 20 2010, 09:50 AM)
if your SVS selling at USA's price....no one would complain lar tongue.gif

but in reality, we are here in bolehland...unless you can convince SVS to setup a plant here tongue.gif but folks at East M'sia still need to pay higher price due to shipping lar......hay, why not setup in East M'sia...they have lots of land there......tongue.gif
*
And a lot of timber and cheaper labor rclxms.gif Can do solid wood subwoofer.

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