Care to explain how that works?

Well, the thing with Monash Sunway is you're essentially receiving a Malaysian qualification (lecturers and staff are Malaysians, classmates are Malaysians and patients are Malaysians). I don't see how studying at Monash Sunway makes it any more Australian than the other private medical schools.

And I honestly don't even know where Monash Sunway stands when it comes to internship allocation. I'm sure you have heard of the medical student tsunami in Australia - there may not even be enough internships for domestic students in Victoria.

You may want to check out the internship guide from the Postgraduate Medical Council of Victoria.

http://computermatching.pmcv.com.au/public...ntroduction.pdf

ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA FOR PARTICIPATING IN INTERN MATCH
 Australian Trained (Permanent Resident) Graduate of a Victorian Medical Faculty
 Temporary Resident Medical Graduate of a Victorian Medical Faculty (i.e. international full-fee
student)
 Australian Trained (Permanent Resident) Graduate of an Interstate Medical Faculty
 Temporary Resident Medical Graduate of an Interstate Medical Faculty (i.e. international full-fee
student)
 New Zealand Medical School Graduate (Australian Permanent Resident or New Zealand citizen)
 Australian Medical Council Graduate (Permanent Resident) who requires a 12 months supervised
placement

Now seriously, which category does Monash Sunway fall into? You can't possibly be an international full-fee student because you commenced your studies as a Malaysian student at a Malaysian campus

Interesting note:
IMPORTANT INFORMATION for all full-fee international students who are graduates of Australian
Medical Schools:
Full-fee international medical graduates from Australian medical schools, who are not required to complete an
internship in their country of origin (visa regulations apply), can apply for internship in Victoria.
If you have been sponsored during your medical degree, and you are seeking internship, you must provide evidence
that you have gained approval from your funding or sponsorship agency to undertake internship in Victoria.

It says you need approval from your funding or scholarship agency, makes you wonder...

You do realize that you can't practise as a physician in Australia without first completing an internship and then obtaining full registration with the respective medical boards.

Well, if you're focusing solely on AMC accreditation, just about anyone can work in Australia as long as you pass your AMC exam... surely students from other private medical schools (which by the way promote themselves as world class) can pass that too since they're pretty much subjected to the same training conditions as Monash Sunway graduates.

Whatever happens after graduation is none of the university's business and so accreditation does not necessarily translate into employment opportunities.

What makes a university education count is not the content of the course, but rather the people you meet and interact along the way. Can you imagine what studying at an institution, where most if not all of the students just can't wait to leave the country, would be like ?! Monash Sunway may have the Monash name attached to it, but are you getting an experience that is different from what you would get in any other private medical school? Because ultimately Monash Sunway is a PRIVATE initiative, whereas Monash Clayton is a PUBLIC institution. You wouldn't find any Australian medical student (or for that matter UK or USA) eagerly trying to leave their country after graduation - how can a country ever improve with such a mentality as ours ???

This post has been edited by Huskies: Mar 29 2011, 11:59 AM

They wouldn't, which is exactly why Malaysian graduates should stay to improve the system (sadly not the case). As much as they hate to admit it, most private students would agree that the country is a lost cause. What's the point of having so many colleges (infrastructure-wise) when there are simply not enough brains to staff them properly?

Well it all depends on which university you're going to - the five-year medical degrees tend to combine anatomy, physiology, pathology, pharmacology etc. "basic sciences" all in the first 2 years, whereas some six-year courses teach anatomy, physiology, biochemistry in the first 2 years and pathology, pharmacology and microbiology for year 3.

Don't worry, you won't have to know any of the medical stuff before you actually start your course, but if you are keen on brushing up your biology knowledge, I would recommend getting Saladin's Anatomy and Physiology. It provides fairly basic stuff covering all areas including anatomy, histology, physiology and some biochemistry.

You'll probably know which book suits you best when you actually use them, so I'd suggest browsing the various titles in the university library in your first few weeks of study. Also, your seniors will most probably guide you in finding the relevant texts for your course.

I think it all boils down to where you wish to practise in after graduation:

- PMC, if you're fine with working in Malaysia, since your clinical training phase will be conducted in Penang.

- JCU, if you fancy your chances of getting an internship in Australia (btw Queensland is one of the hardest places to get an internship due to the rapid expansion of medical places at the University of Queensland).

P.S. And what do you mean by "passable result"? Correct me if I am wrong, but I doubt there is any medical school in Australia willing to accept an IB score that is less than 36.

This post has been edited by Huskies: Jul 12 2011, 09:35 PM

If migration is not your priority, then I'd recommend you go with PMC (definitely better than most of the private medical colleges in Malaysia).

I don't see the AUD exchange rate dropping any time soon, so unless you have an extra three or four hundred thousand ringgit to spare, steer clear of Australia

Oh and JCU is also NOT recognised by the Singapore Medical Council...

This post has been edited by Huskies: Jul 12 2011, 10:33 PM

Help yourself with this list:

http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/MungoBlobs/23/4...28final3%29.pdf

Only degrees from UM & UKM (from Malaysia) are recognised in Singapore.

Australia is getting ridiculously expensive - I wouldn't be surprised if Malaysian candidates will soon be priced out of studying here.

Monash University - and I really have to hand it to them - they sure know how to do business:

2010 MBBS tuition fee for international students: AUD 52,000

2011 MBBS tuition fee for international students: AUD 56,800

2012 MBBS tuition fee for international students: AUD 59,810

So, we have an increase of nearly 8,000 dollars in 2 years and yet demand still far out-strips supply - though I'm pretty sure the Malaysian numbers at Monash have dwindled over the last couple of years (JPA no longer sends medical students to Aus; not sure whether JPA PMS-route is still alive)

5 years in Australia would add up to roughly AUD 400,000 (including living expenses), at today's exchange rate adds up to over 1.2 million ringgit. So, to prospective applicants (who can afford the fees anyway), there's very little to sweat about provided you perform reasonably well in your pre-U/ISAT/interview. The money will kill off most of the competition for you - how many parents do you think have 1.2 million ringgit sitting around?

Like I said, demand outstrips supply, hence the luxury that Australian medical schools can afford in selecting their students...though I must agree that most applicants are self-selective as well.

This might not concern you just yet, but Australia currently has a policy of placing ALL local (read Australian citizen/PR) graduates first before international medical students can be considered for internship positions. Do you know how wretched it feels like when a local student who had to repeat an entire year is guaranteed employment while you're left hanging despite paying the exorbitant fees and having better grades than other local students. Now, before anyone starts bashing me for forgetting my place as an international student, I'd like to highlight the fact that this scenario was never explicitly discussed with previous generations of international medical students as the medical student tsunami only took off in the last 2 or 3 years. I'd assume that international students would know better about this situation, but looking at a few forum threads on pagingdr, I still see deluded replies such as "will change/apply for PR while in medical school"...I kid you not. In my uni at least, they have started calling final year students pre-interns; how ridiculous would it be for pre-interns to not continue on as interns the following year. Anyway, it's up to you to decide what you want to do, it's your money after all, but had I known this a couple of years back, I would have seriously considered studying elsewhere.

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Added on August 28, 2011, 7:33 pmGet an ipad if you can afford it...it saves you the trouble of printing out your notes/journal articles - there are a few really useful pdf readers on the App store. Plus you can also find a number of good anatomy apps for the ipad - Elsevier is working on a full Netter's atlas of anatomy for the ipad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9yQWKxv-OA

The ability to zoom in and out of articles seamlessly makes reading journal articles so much easier, unless you enjoy squinting at the tiny letters

This post has been edited by Huskies: Aug 28 2011, 07:33 PM

Anyway, since you people are so keen on Singapore, I thought I'd share some information regarding post-graduate options in Singapore. I recently attended a recruitment event organised by the MOHHoldings Singapore (I think they ran it in every capital city in Australia; and they'll be doing the same thing in the UK next month).

Health care in Singapore has undergone a major restructuring programme - basically public health care is now split among 5 health clusters, namely the National Healthcare Group (NHG), the National University Health System (NUHS), Singhealth and 2 other hospitals (Khoo Teck Puat and Jurong) - residency training will only be provided in the former three but more on that later.

The traditional system in Singapore goes something like this:

For specialists: medical graduate - house officer - medical officer - medical officer (basic specialist trainee) - registrar (advanced specialist trainee) - associate consultant- consultant - senior consultant (the whole process takes up more or less 8 to 10 years depending on the specialty choice)

And then of course you have the family physician/GP track which is considerably shorter in addition to a clinical research track.

Such a long training period would invariably mean a shorter career for full-fledged physicians, hence Singapore's decision to introduce the residency programme which is modeled after its namesake in the US. The new system will be implemented under the guidance from the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) - now before you start salivating about the prospects of working in America after your stint in Singapore, the residency programme will NOT qualify you as a physician in America nor does the Singapore government want you to leave its system - "we don't need a brain drain in Singapore" as the recruiter puts it nicely. You will only be able to work in Singapore, and that is despite taking the same board exams that US residents take - a board-certificed physician who cannot work in the US.

The biggest advantage of this residency system is the ability to enter the programme straight out of medical school - straight into R1. Now, say if your first attempt at matching is unsuccessful, you can still be a house officer (PGY1) and then apply the following year as a PGY2 - of course your chances will naturally increase as you get better at what you're doing and you know more people in the system.

There's a lot more detail behind the whole application process - apparently they have to accommodate graduates from three different time frames (Yong Loo Lin, UK and Aus)

Oh and not forgetting remuneration ; while not as good as Australia, it is still much better than what you get in Malaysia. (Btw, the pay is dependent on your seniority, it doesn't mean that a PGY1 resident will earn more than a PGY1 houseman, so you won't actually see much earning potential until at least you're through with your residency)

House officers get a base salary of 3.000 SGD per month, locals get CPF while foreigners (mostly Malaysians anyway) get an additional 850 SGD housing allowance. House officers are expected to work 60-65 hours per week (surgical residents 80 hours +) and you'll probably get six or seven night calls per month (110 SGD per call). And of course you have bonuses, either group or personal and not forgetting ...................lunch money !!!!!!! (8 SGD weekdays, 12 SGD weekends)

PGY2s get a slight bump in their salary package, basic pay is around 4,000 SGD and you get 220 SGD per call.

Well, that's basically how the new system looks like in Singapore, it's definitely attracting attention among international students in Australia (Singapore may soon end its reliance on Malaysian graduates as it's looking to woo its own students back) Malaysia on the other hand..........

I believe what you're referring to is the pre-employment grant, which is 60% of your final two years in medical school up to a cap of SGD $80,000 in exchange for a 4 year bond - but if you're going to work for the Singapore government anyway, there's no reason not to take it. Of course, your grades DO matter when applying for this grant and not every applicant will be successful.

I'm curious to see whether TalentCorp can ever come up with something like this for Malaysian expatriates overseas.....

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Added on August 29, 2011, 8:19 pmYeah NSW is definitely one of the worst hit by the tsunami, followed by Victoria and Queensland (UQ is probably the biggest culprit here, having a class size that is near 500 with over a hundred international students). SA is probably the safest choice right now, but who knows things might change in 5 or 6 years time as University of South Australia is busy lobbying for its own medical school...

This post has been edited by Huskies: Aug 29 2011, 08:23 PM

"...........the bulk will come from um/ukm/oz/uk..........." Poor Malaysia The reason Malaysian medical graduates assimilate so well into the Singaporean system is partly down to the fact that they're normally good at more than one language - Mandarin Chinese comes into mind, along with the various dialects such as Hokkien, Cantonese and Tamil for the Indian students. Singapore gets the wheat while Malaysia gets the chaff...

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Added on August 29, 2011, 9:11 pmISAT results should have been released for those planning to enter next year, plus I presume interviews (live/telephone) are ongoing for successful candidates; so you should more or less know where you stand right now - an ISAT of 75th percentile or above and an ATAR equivalent of 98 should almost guarantee your progression to medical school, unless of course you perform very poorly in your interview.

Anyway, which schools are you aiming for in Australia? - there are only a few unis left with undergraduate entry: Adelaide, Monash, UNSW, UTAS (recognised in Singapore) James Cook and Western Sydney.

This post has been edited by Huskies: Aug 29 2011, 09:11 PM

"The cost to study medicine in the US is very high. Here, the cost will be reduced quite considerably, and that will mean that you will be within the reach of a lot more students who otherwise will not be able to get entry into an American university," added Dr Mahathir.

Apparently somebody forgot to tell the chancellor that it's going to cost more to study at Perdana than at Johns Hopkins itself....

http://www.mysinchew.com/node/63555

This post has been edited by Huskies: Sep 12 2011, 11:05 PM

I believe things happen the opposite way in Malaysia - launch programme first, accreditation/recognition will soon follow...

Isn't it obvious by this point that IMU is here to make money - why should they care what happens beyond Phase 1 of the PMS - it's not like the student is going to return to Malaysia anyway

Well, there's no harm in putting in your application to UWS, after all you get to name more than one university under UAC...but yeah it's still much safer to stick with the ones currently in the MMC list (or even better the ones recognised in Singapore)

PS: Oops, must have overlooked that mistake; MMC not MMA

This post has been edited by Huskies: Sep 15 2011, 07:46 PM

Speaking of government scholarships, does anyone have any idea about the number of privately-sponsored students at Perdana, if any?

Let me give you some friendly advice: enjoy your freedom while you still can - the best time of your medical career (that is if you manage to survive it) is between receiving your acceptance letter and actually starting medical school.

Trust me, you can stare at an anatomy textbook all day and still not know a thing because you're not learning within the context of medicine (ie of clinical relevance). That's what you attend medical school for

As for you being an eager beaver, you might want to hear this story about med school gunners:

"Before starting my first year, I had heard stories about gunners. I was told that a gunner was someone who hid study materials from his fellow classmates, wouldn’t help his colleagues out with an academic-related problem, or sat in the front row and answered all of the questions in class. After 3.75 years of being around gunners, I can tell you that the initial bit of information that I was provided with was somewhat incomplete. Here’s your complete crash course in gunnerism – be sure to print it out so you can study it on rounds:

Guns-Blazin’- This is your no-frills steel-balled gunner. The ones that practically wear a t-shirt that states “I’m A Gunner, So f*** Off.” You can spot these usually from just the way they look – I don’t know what it is, but I’ll be damned if they don’t have a permanent facial expression that just screams intensity. Coming in on their day off to check up on patients and answering questions about your patients on rounds is typical behaviour. They’ll probably bring in multiple journal articles for added attending flare before, during or after rounds. If you get one of these on your rotation, the best thing to do is just let them do your work. In most cases, you’ll still get a decent grade on the rotation and they’ll be lucky if their grade is any higher than yours (depending on shelf exam weight). They’ll most likely come back to you after the rotation has ended and inquire about your subjective evaluation. Rub it in that you did as well as they did with 40% more sleep.

The Closet Gunner –The closet gunner is the one that tells you he never studies but manages to hold a 4.0 throughout his entire medical school career. Around other classmates they try and play down their intense study regimen, but let an attending pose a “difficult but interesting” question to the group and these guys break. You’ll often be greeted on Monday morning with tales of beer and whores down at the local pub. The truth is that they were really at home with their nose crammed into First-Aid for the USMLE Step 1 memorizing random facts for the entire weekend.

Gunner Wannabe – Perhaps the most misunderstood species in the gunner family, this type walks, talks and acts like a gunner but has a hard time living up to the role. The opposite of the closet gunner, the wannabe gunner wants you to think that he spends enormous amounts of time studying outside of the hospital when usually that time is spent f***ing off. They will occasionally bring in a journal article or two to try and strengthen their argument. The motive behind being a wannabe is purely an attempt to fortify relationships with attendings and residents. However, these people do not put in the actual work to make Guns-Blazin’ status and will eventually migrate down the chain and fall into the final category.

The Stupid Gunner – Criteria for entry here include anybody from the above categories who just can’t cut the gunner lifestyle. These people will typically try and excel at non-academic tasks to make up for their lack of questions answered correctly on rounds. Examples include always being first to volunteer for dressing changes, staple removals or prostate exams. If the resident needs “one student” to help him with a task, more often than not the Stupid Gunner will be the first to volunteer. Note, however, that categorization here can become difficult: Those who live at Guns-Blazin’ status can and often will volunteer for these tasks as well. It is the shelf exam score which differentiates the stupid gunner from the elite Guns-Blazin’ types. The Gunner Wannabes will eventually fall into this category typically after the first two to three rotations."

http://www.medschoolhell.com/2006/03/20/gunners/

If you really have nothing to do and you don't feel like lazing around, I suggest you pick this book up: "The wisdom of the body" by Sherwin Nuland - a really interesting read about how the body functions (anatomy and physiology) without over-complicating things for the uninitiated.

Safest option for international students (intending to start med 2012 and beyond) would be South Australia (U of Adelaide or Flinders) - they're the only state with a surplus of intern positions.

Every international student from WA who applied for an internship was successfully placed for 2012 - apparently most of the local students wanted to head East.

NSW and Queensland are probably the worst hit by the tsunami, Victoria will have to absorb some of the local graduates from Tasmania.

I think the North American international students (esp. Canadian) might find the situation even more distressing as they are not even guaranteed a training position in their home country. They'll have to study and sit for the USMLE (on top of the Australian syllabus) on their own.

And to make things worse - some of them could have taken a loan (and a massive one too!) in order to study here - definitely not a comfortable situation to be in...