QUOTE(Jas2davir @ Apr 8 2009, 11:45 AM)
laksa88 did u even read what he wrote or just quote him and put an ^
^Ret pally OP, discussion here
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 Apr 8 2009, 01:35 PM
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Senior Member
637 posts Joined: Jan 2006 From: Petaling Jaya  
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Apr 8 2009, 01:42 PM
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Junior Member
49 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(ray123 @ Apr 8 2009, 12:45 PM) It's like a 3-minute Mage but in melee range. And you know how vulnerable a Mage is if you catch him in melee. Not for the Ret, he still has the bubble. Even DKs have to stack their diseases first, Rogues have to build their combo points first (and again and again). Obviously when rets get into range they will kill you, thats what their class is. Melee. The same can be said of how vulnerable ret is if you hold/kite him at range. Ret has bubble to escape.. ok.. Mage has blink and other ways to escape just as well. The whole pvp thing is just rock-scissors-paper. Some classes inevitably will be at the losing end to pallies and some will be at the winning end. If you want to pwn pallies, pick rock(metaphorically). But then again, people are gonna complain how OP paper pwns rock. Yes, I'm a bitter Shaman.  |
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Apr 8 2009, 02:54 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(hikashi @ Apr 7 2009, 09:24 PM) oh lol. ^Added on April 8, 2009, 2:56 pm » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « good write but... WHY SO SERIOUS? btw you know about the other lolpatch thread? Added on April 8, 2009, 2:59 pm QUOTE(ray123 @ Apr 8 2009, 12:59 PM) http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/1613736629...-this-game.html i think you just win internets+50 with this post lol.6 things ruining this game with blue responses. I hardly see Ret using the bubble to run away... I hardly see Rets running away in the first place :S If anything, they use the bubble to ignore all CC effects to close in! Added on April 8, 2009, 3:01 pm QUOTE(sets84 @ Apr 8 2009, 01:17 PM) its useless talking to people who tries to justify the op-ness of the class they are using... to be fair, not all players(or DKs) are like that.its like talking to DK players, well they are all pretty much the same. even for rogues, we had our glory days (HARP LOL) of being OPd (every class did honestly) Added on April 8, 2009, 3:03 pm QUOTE(splitzz @ Apr 8 2009, 01:42 PM) Obviously when rets get into range they will kill you, thats what their class is. Melee. The same can be said of how vulnerable ret is if you hold/kite him at range. Ret has bubble to escape.. ok.. Mage has blink and other ways to escape just as well. The whole pvp thing is just rock-scissors-paper. Some classes inevitably will be at the losing end to pallies and some will be at the winning end. If you want to pwn pallies, pick rock(metaphorically). But then again, people are gonna complain how OP paper pwns rock. sure, if its all rock and scissors its fine. but when things like rock beating paper, that isnt fine anymore, and thats what balance is about.do refer to sk-100 if you wanna get an idea of what pvp/arena balance is. This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 8 2009, 03:03 PM |
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Apr 8 2009, 03:14 PM
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2,509 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(splitzz @ Apr 8 2009, 01:42 PM) Obviously when rets get into range they will kill you, thats what their class is. Melee. The same can be said of how vulnerable ret is if you hold/kite him at range. Ret has bubble to escape.. ok.. Mage has blink and other ways to escape just as well. The whole pvp thing is just rock-scissors-paper. Some classes inevitably will be at the losing end to pallies and some will be at the winning end. If you want to pwn pallies, pick rock(metaphorically). But then again, people are gonna complain how OP paper pwns rock. The thing is they can kill you fast, and do it while having the protective net of their divine shield. There is no other class that is invulnerable WHILE they are attacking. A Mage sitting in Iceblock while his Mirror Images are attacking you is a lousy comparison. The major problem (at least for me) is that Ret Paladins aren't using the bubble as an escape, they are using it as an attackingoption, which is a complete reversal from it's original purpose (to heal). 50% less damage might seem big but the original hits have huge numbers in the first place. |
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Apr 8 2009, 03:14 PM
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383 posts Joined: Jul 2005
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the difference is that good players will admit that the class they are playing is OP (Hafu comes to mind, god... even a girl has more sense in playing compared to guys these days)
I used to play a lock, and god I love being OP during those times... every minute of it, but you have to admit the fact that the class is broken. |
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Apr 8 2009, 03:16 PM
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3 posts Joined: Nov 2006
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I think it's not fair to say one class is OP just because they "supposedly" rule in PVP
How about PVE? Lots of people like me only do PVE and it sucks to see nerfs because Blizz is trying to balance things in PVP. In PVE in fact, Zarhym has actualy said that Ret Pally dps is lacking, that's why we're getting Exorcism usable on all mobs, and a guaranteed crit on undead mobs. |
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Apr 8 2009, 03:39 PM
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Senior Member
637 posts Joined: Jan 2006 From: Petaling Jaya
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PVE eh?
http://wowwebstats.com/b45l2343yuc65 (from MMO Champion's speed run news) Check out the RET paladin's damage done AND healing done  |
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Apr 8 2009, 03:52 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(sets84 @ Apr 8 2009, 03:14 PM) the difference is that good players will admit that the class they are playing is OP (Hafu comes to mind, god... even a girl has more sense in playing compared to guys these days) haha well said.I used to play a lock, and god I love being OP during those times... every minute of it, but you have to admit the fact that the class is broken. and onto locks, they are still op'ed  they had REALLY piss poor representation at the beginning due to how burst/resil comparison were, but now? people cryin bout feardeaths (shitty arena maps like sewers/orgrimmar [LOLDISABLED]) are quickly increasing and another factor is due to shadowcleave comps. (DK pala lock) Added on April 8, 2009, 3:54 pm QUOTE(Aggroboy @ Apr 8 2009, 03:39 PM) PVE eh? I SEE WHAT YOU DID THARhttp://wowwebstats.com/b45l2343yuc65 (from MMO Champion's speed run news) Check out the RET paladin's damage done AND healing done This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 8 2009, 03:54 PM |
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Apr 8 2009, 03:57 PM
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Senior Member
2,509 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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The easy test:
You know your class is OP when you don't bat an eye at a lvl80 opponent landing near you while you're just a few levels under him. You know the opponent's class is OP if you avoid him even though you're higher level. |
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Apr 8 2009, 04:12 PM
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3 posts Joined: Nov 2006
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QUOTE(Aggroboy @ Apr 8 2009, 03:39 PM) PVE eh? The effective healing is high because there's many melee dps in the raid.http://wowwebstats.com/b45l2343yuc65 (from MMO Champion's speed run news) Check out the RET paladin's damage done AND healing done And the damage is high because it's Naxx and 90% of the mobs there are undead. I guarantee you will not see the same dps against, say, Archavon. Plus the stats are artificially exaggerated from thaddius and Gluth fights. Let's take a look vs Patchwerk which is the standard all-out dps fight most people use to see effective raid damage. Gee he's all the way at number 16. There are NINE dps classes above him, and he's almost tied with the tenth class, the druid. QED |
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Apr 8 2009, 04:20 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(ray123 @ Apr 8 2009, 03:57 PM) The easy test: i find that invalid as the current gap of non 80 vs 80s compared to say pre bc/TBC is a lil too wide due to how high itemlevel has evolved through the 10 levels and the level 80 raid/pvp epics.You know your class is OP when you don't bat an eye at a lvl80 opponent landing near you while you're just a few levels under him. You know the opponent's class is OP if you avoid him even though you're higher level. simply put, even if ur class is shit, but if ur beating on a non80, chances are even if hes a dk or something, you'd still kill him. hard or not would be another story. if this were say, EARLY wotlk when DK was so hella broken, then perhaps yes. however this applies only to DKs Added on April 8, 2009, 4:23 pm QUOTE(wingedman @ Apr 8 2009, 04:12 PM) The effective healing is high because there's many melee dps in the raid. i believe he was making a point that ret's pve dps isnt as horrible as how many would exaggerate.And the damage is high because it's Naxx and 90% of the mobs there are undead. I guarantee you will not see the same dps against, say, Archavon. Plus the stats are artificially exaggerated from thaddius and Gluth fights. Let's take a look vs Patchwerk which is the standard all-out dps fight most people use to see effective raid damage. Gee he's all the way at number 16. There are NINE dps classes above him, and he's almost tied with the tenth class, the druid. QED If anything, rogues pve dps qq'ing would be a lot more considering how long they throned the dps meters. due to how the rediculous hit rating requirement (thats never revised on WOTLK) and how other classes are scaling a lot better with their basic stats (AP/SP) while rogues sacrifice a lot for hit rating. This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 8 2009, 04:23 PM |
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Apr 8 2009, 04:24 PM
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Junior Member
383 posts Joined: Jul 2005
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QUOTE(wingedman @ Apr 8 2009, 04:12 PM) The effective healing is high because there's many melee dps in the raid. simple classification of a hybrid class wanting to out dps pure dps classes... you also mentioned that you can heal amirite? I rest my case.And the damage is high because it's Naxx and 90% of the mobs there are undead. I guarantee you will not see the same dps against, say, Archavon. Plus the stats are artificially exaggerated from thaddius and Gluth fights. Let's take a look vs Patchwerk which is the standard all-out dps fight most people use to see effective raid damage. Gee he's all the way at number 16. There are NINE dps classes above him, and he's almost tied with the tenth class, the druid. QED |
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Apr 8 2009, 04:24 PM
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2,509 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Apr 8 2009, 04:20 PM) i find that invalid as the current gap of non 80 vs 80s compared to say pre bc/TBC is a lil too wide due to how high itemlevel has evolved through the 10 levels and the level 80 raid/pvp epics. Mmm amend that to fresh 80s then. If you're a fresh 80, do you still avoid certain classes even though they are a little lower level? And if you're a lowbie but you can see the 80 near you have comparable hp, would you fancy your chances in attacking him?simply put, even if ur class is shit, but if ur beating on a non80, chances are even if hes a dk or something, you'd still kill him. hard or not would be another story. if this were say, EARLY wotlk when DK was so hella broken, then perhaps yes. however this applies only to DKs Ah well. |
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Apr 8 2009, 04:34 PM
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3 posts Joined: Nov 2006
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QUOTE(sets84 @ Apr 8 2009, 04:24 PM) simple classification of a hybrid class wanting to out dps pure dps classes... you also mentioned that you can heal amirite? I rest my case. I don't deny that pure dps classes should be doing more dps than the hybrids. That's how I like to play it too.Even Ghostcrawler has said Rogue, Mage, Warlock and Hunters are the pure dps classes that should be doing significantly more dps than the other classes. And I agree with this. But wth are warriors doing with 1k dps more on the list? The shaman 500dps more? And don't forget this is an undead mob where the Pally supposedly has an edge. Die lah in Ulduar liddat! |
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Apr 8 2009, 04:35 PM
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Junior Member
383 posts Joined: Jul 2005
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warriors are getting TG nerfs
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Apr 8 2009, 04:46 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(ray123 @ Apr 8 2009, 04:24 PM) Mmm amend that to fresh 80s then. If you're a fresh 80, do you still avoid certain classes even though they are a little lower level? And if you're a lowbie but you can see the 80 near you have comparable hp, would you fancy your chances in attacking him? well if its directed to me, ill be honest and say yes. because when i was fresh 80, and dks were totally broken back then, even if the dk is like 77-79 (well under that im sure i wont have a problem) and IS COMPETANT at being a DK, then too bad, i wont win.Ah well. MARK OF BLOOD = HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA (thanks blizz for the nerf) yeap. all i ever did was healing the dk. (hey at least i was a healer for a short while aye?) |
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Apr 8 2009, 06:19 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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the answer to how a ret could not be OP: -
QUOTE(splitzz @ Apr 8 2009, 01:42 PM) Obviously when rets get into range they will kill you, thats what their class is. Melee. The same can be said of how vulnerable ret is if you hold/kite him at range. Ret has bubble to escape.. ok.. Mage has blink and other ways to escape just as well. The whole pvp thing is just rock-scissors-paper. Some classes inevitably will be at the losing end to pallies and some will be at the winning end. If you want to pwn pallies, pick rock(metaphorically). But then again, people are gonna complain how OP paper pwns rock. how can ret be OP if they cant get close to u in the first place...currently, all ret have is 10yards to deal damage (though 30 yards with exorcism in 3.1)... this is among the biggest problem rets are having and if they dun judge, they dun get JoW for mana... besides a ret could never burst down a decent healer (which is why the CS testing few weeks ago)... these are the weakness of a ret and simple counter to it... the problem as all high rated arena palyers as well as blizzard would know is that the ones OP are holy (hybrid to ret for JoW) which is fixed in 3.1... post 3.03, ret has been badly hit which is why GC have claimed that ret's damage are just too low... 3.00-3.03 is where ret are imba and all u see are FoTM rets running around... most ret would be wiling to trade away their bubble for a range closure or more CC... being balanced around bubble is wut killed ret... let alone being OP... This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 8 2009, 06:34 PM |
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Apr 8 2009, 07:03 PM
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Newbie
1 posts Joined: Dec 2005
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QUOTE(Jas2davir @ Apr 8 2009, 11:45 AM) laksa88 did u even read what he wrote or just quote him and put an ^ Yes I did. I put a ^ to show I agree with what he posted. |
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Apr 8 2009, 08:39 PM
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Junior Member
383 posts Joined: Jul 2005
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Apr 8 2009, 06:19 PM) the answer to how a ret could not be OP: - good god... its so not obvious he isn't another ret pally player... amirite? you two probably deserve each other...how can ret be OP if they cant get close to u in the first place... currently, all ret have is 10yards to deal damage (though 30 yards with exorcism in 3.1)... this is among the biggest problem rets are having and if they dun judge, they dun get JoW for mana... besides a ret could never burst down a decent healer (which is why the CS testing few weeks ago)... these are the weakness of a ret and simple counter to it... the problem as all high rated arena palyers as well as blizzard would know is that the ones OP are holy (hybrid to ret for JoW) which is fixed in 3.1... post 3.03, ret has been badly hit which is why GC have claimed that ret's damage are just too low... 3.00-3.03 is where ret are imba and all u see are FoTM rets running around... most ret would be wiling to trade away their bubble for a range closure or more CC... being balanced around bubble is wut killed ret... let alone being OP... try playing a priest and tell me how rets could never burst down a decent healer there's a type of 3v3 team called holyplay in case u didnt know, it consists of ret/disc/shaman... a ret for main dps in a 3v3 team, that's saying alot... you guys seriously need to pull your heads out of your asses and realise that. |
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Apr 8 2009, 11:57 PM
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Newbie
0 posts Joined: Aug 2008
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heh wow it seems like ages since the buffed up ret pallies, best balance seen pvp grand marshals are ret pallies and that was 4 years ago. look on the brightside, you kill some but not all classes, which is fair. u guys should try failhammer lol. destro's classes mostly fails.
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