In Malaysia way, the Laws can be interpreted differently for differently people so beware of what you speak or do cos it may land you into serious trouble.

Like a case with JPA, a guy got a summon for overtaking in a double lines road and knowing that he didn't, he went to the court. After 1 year with 7 postponements, he finally won the case.........and later,in less than 3 months, he received another letter from JPA that his driving license has been suspended for a year because of accumulating 3 summons over the last year, he should has paid the summon of Rm300 and may even get 50% discount if he appeal for it......oh my God, how does he knows that he has the 3 summons and most people will just pay up without checking if there is any truth in the summon to avoid going to court.

Many others must have received tens of summons and still free to drive and this poor guy has only 3 summons and if it was his at all!!!!! So, friends of forum, be careful when dealing with the authorities, they can bite you and when they bite you, they bite deep lah.

Words of advice from a friend.

Aiyoo cergau & West Wing... somehow those words make me sad T.T

But..... the truth be told by both of you. We have our weaknesses in the system. Do or die... since I (hopefully) have many years ahead of me... i'll do what i can... no matter how insignificant the effect maybe towards the industry. Hopefully it'll cause a small ripple... political leverage? dont have that. Economical influence? yeah right, i wish! All i can do is play the part as a consumer & voter... and of course as a citizen of Malaysia who loves the industry... mainly because i chose this industry not only out of passion & possible $$$ gains, but it suits my love for wildlife as well. Who said business & pleasure can't be mixed? >.<

Please let the new guideline be accommodating...

anyways since the new GAHP will be out soon, lets mass email Dr. Fadzilah nak? Requesting to be the first batch to attend the first GAHP course. >.<
i think her email is = fadzilah@dvs.gov.my

http://www.dvs.gov.my/web/guest/komoditi

(this part since we are 'consumers' or 'clients', tak salahkan nak email request to attend kursus?) >.<

Now that Sarawak planned to build so many dams there for clean water, for hydroelectric power,etc.
Is this good to the Bird Houses owners in other parts?

We lost the car industry to Thailand even though we had a good headstart.
Now the swiftlet industry is facing the same future.

What on earth does it takes to make this government more pro-business? There seems to be more kosong talks and their action is to frustrate, not facilitate.

The malay proverb, 'Bagai enau dalam belukar, melepaskan pucuk masing-masing" fits this government to the dot.

This post has been edited by coolandy: Jan 1 2010, 11:56 AM

We loss everything to others because some of our leaders need to see if there is something for them before they approved and by then or if there is nothing good enough, no deal even if it's good for our economy.


It was a waste and shameful experience that we lose to the Thai on most of the Japanese cars industries relocation to Asean and Malaysia was their no.1 choice due to the fact that we are the safest area in the region but if too much of restrictions, I also will go to the mountain even there are tigers.....as tigers are safer than greedy human beings.

Same fates will happen to the swiftlets industry if the present situation continue..............once we are the no.2 , now we are no.3 after Thailand and sooner or later, we shall be no.4 or n.6 after the Vietnam, Laos or Cambodia............... Who dare to reinvest where there is black cloud above and soon if the authorities enforce the present Laws and By Laws on to the BHs, the town's properties values start dropping like birds shits although you never find the swiftlets types, that's the wonder of swiftlet; they like the human use their home's toilet to shit.

At least by the look of our present PM, is not the same as the formal world famous PM (for most of the wrong reasons) .......we hope to see a silver lining surrounding the black cloud.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Jan 2 2010, 01:14 PM

The Thai politicians are busy fighting amongst themselves and both sides need funding from Thai businessmen.
That's why they are more pro- business.
Actually, most of their families are businessmen themselves too.

This post has been edited by Tweeter: Jan 2 2010, 01:27 PM

Let's talk birds!!!!

Time are good for the BH owners as the prices are excellent and is going to be better for the next week or two but be careful as CNY is near, the price may drop as the production for cleaning the nests will stop for CNY.

Price now is seller's price as the market is in need of nests and best price can be offer for those 3 fingers, white and of little feathers but then most of you have sold all your nests to buyers a months or two ago........on seller demand.

So, if you have nest after the CYN and if the price is too low, hold on to the nests even if required, buy a chiller and store the nests but don't let the buyers get to you like before....even going down to Rm1500/K the last time. Then, that time I was very lucky cos I refused to sell instead I bought alot of nests to try to prevent the fall on my part and I make some good money then. I have all the faith in the swiftlets as they have never let me down.....at least so far so good. IshaAllah, we shall make it thru the CNY and price still good and maybe even better at thru 2010.

HAPPY 2010, everyone and may the power of swiftlets be with you.


Hope that my luck and prediction remain the same but don't blame me if thing isn't what I predicted. I am trying to help only!!!!!!

Dear WW,
Thanks for your concern & advice.
I am a law abiding citizen with only love and concern for the well being of my country and only distaste for ANY government of the day who does a lousy job of governing (at least in my opinion).
Lousy administration is bad. Only thing worst is for someone who instead of facilitating, be actively acting against what's good for the country and with bad intent.

Yes, I believe revenge persecution happens. Do you stand & fight or succumb?
Does anyone here care to speculate on the reason, civil servants came to be civil masters?
To quote...
"All it takes for Evil to prevail in this world is for enough good men to do nothing"
Just my 2 bit.

---

Added on January 2, 2010, 11:43 pmWW,
I recall past mentions here before of wide disparity in prices.
1)Is there a annual cycle with some festivities of the largest consumer country having a direct bearing to the prices?
2)Is there a local cartel manipulating the prices?
3)You also are the local birdnest buffer manager?

The 3rd Qs begs another (merely peeking ahead a little) ie if we need to bring some sophistication to stabilise the price fluctuations
May be a wild idea



This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 2 2010, 11:43 PM

just to reverse or correct your statement a little bit where you wrote the opposite way although your intention is to find a good governance in the day.

I would prefer our present BN govt not to be more on pro-business. look at the past till now and you will know that these napoleans in the offices were doing things which are not in the govt scope or schedule . intead of doing their job serving the public, assisting or even approval , these people are doing other business on the tax payer money and time. they were getting money from the govt salary and pension , incentives from supplies, becoming partners or shareholders to private companies . While there were inside, they hold the list of applicant and was baiting for his next fish who are kind to him and generous to donate their daily operational revenue to them .

actually we lost not only in swiftlet but also export of raw fruits to the overseaas market like mangosteen , durian and rambutan to Thailand.
We are still way back behind as compare to what we have last time. even now , the mangosteen juice is slipping out from this nation. Thailand had even sent out to USA and pass FDA guidance. We still cannot becaouse of so many rules.



This post has been edited by hackwire: Jan 3 2010, 01:11 AM

To Frustrate, Not Facilitate. Nice one coolandy! That describes some parts of the public service to the dot! I agree with both of you, our country is selectively pro-business. We sell off national assets, devise hyped up projects which are dysfunctional, condone corruption by big wigs but prosecute small timers (has any of the higher ups actually been penalized & jailed???), we even allow leaders associated with murder/assassination to rule. And after 50 years... we are still unable to feed our own country! We are not sustainable.

One reason why, we once concentrated too much on industry (which includes rubber, cpo & etc)... left out the foodstuff. GLC's & AP's were formed to import & develop agriculture based products (you name an item, they have an agency for it)... but most of them had AP's... they left out the development part... some even extended the AP's.

So once originally an agricultural country... now we can't feed ourselves. I can specify many things about our agriculture landscape, but i fear i might go into too detail & blame specific individuals (i can't abstain from doing this vehemently... geram) so i'll refrain myself. Just know that there are fools in high ranking positions so stupid i compare them to a kerbau being pulled by the nose (at least kerbau pun kadang-kadang melawan & tanak kena tarik).

Another problem the moa is facing... the younger AO's & VO's and support staff. These young grads... many of them tak turun padang. They were not trained to do extension programs. They do not have the skills, adaptability and most of all the passion to do extension work. I sincerely hope moa can acclimatize/recondition these young officers for the sake of our country.

Another problem which i am sure we all know... is the lack of proper research coupled with clinical trials or in this case field trials/pilot plots. I'll give an example (not intended for anyone specific, but kalau terasa, means you deserve so);

Pelancaran baka baru... hmm... lets say... a chili plant. Lets name it baka 'RM Montel'. Kelebihan baka ini;
1. Berbuah lebih besar dan sentiasa berbuah.
(that is only in controlled conditions... labs, or small trial plots. Never proven in the field)
2. Berjangka hayat lebih 5 tahun.
(But the research took 2 years, how do they know it'll live that long)
3. Tidak memerlukan penyelenggaraan rapi
(consider this, even existing varieties aren't resistant to viral infections brought out by teritips & such... belum lagi pasal media & baja)

To Frustrate, Not Facilitate
ps. coolandy, can i use this? >.<

We were raped and raped and continuously raped like a prostitute.

I knew this project very well since 10 years ago when some idiot came up with the proposal of doing an animated film of Saladin. A saviour and a hero . They even hired the best animator from Disney to be consultant and even train to a couple of students but not all because of kiasu.
Budget was allocated and than pencil drawing also sketch out on the small production scale. I need to time travel this or there will be a muzeum already for recording the story.

Look now, first the plan was a movie. Money was already given than i heard a couple of project team quit and that disney guy never heard of already. Later they came out with the trailer to pool for money and show everywhere in public as well . Now almost 10 year, people already quit watching this stone age stories and pretty outdated with war and 2D animation. Even Princess and the Frog had finished the production and ticket been sold.

and due to the low budget, they now focusing on tv cartoon in series. haha

what next , just a TV commercial for kids " ding dang" " Tok Tok"...

When come to proposal for money, these bastards doesn't have any responsibility at all. the Office don't sack them and make them responsible or anything.

HI,

Do any one know how many and what type of association we have in Malaysia in respect of this industry (swiftlets). If not mistaken they are breeders and also merchant associations.

As to the price of unprocessed nest, is there a price guide issued by association every month, fortnightly, quarterly etc

Thanks & regards

Swiftlailai

DSMB,

Use it for all you want. It did not come from me, it actually came from Badawi if I remember correctly.

But then, cakap tak serupa bikin, so sad.

Swiftlailai,
See my last post. My questions too. I was hoping some of the sifus here can shed some light here.
My source of knowlege is limited somewhat to this forum.
Sifus here pls correct amend as appropriate.
There are 3 distinct core roles in this business
1)Sanctuary providers
2)Middleman purchasers
3)Exporters
There are numerous peripheral support roles eg
birdnest cleaners, equipment providers, birdhouse constructors, consultants etc.
There are capable folks who play multiple roles too.
Thus far I know of Merchant Associations & Birdhouse Owners Associations.

Without official intervention (which I am sure many here will not want to see happening) for a 'birdnest exchange', my sense now, it is pretty much market driven ie by the middleman (which will be very much opaque to the rest.)
WestWing mentioned that he was buying up birdnest when the price was low to try to maintain the then prevailing price. In essence he was actually functioning partly as a buffer stock manager. This can be rewarding when prices are low and you have the financial resources. A full buffer stock manager will also sell cheap when the price is sky high to the benefit of the exporter. Thus a win-win for all roles. I can only see a govt body in such a full buffer stock role though. Also a fear, we have a history of being lousy with the natural rubber buffer stock.

My primary concern is with the sanctuary providers... they can only influence prices somewhat by controlling the availability of the birdnest. But the merchants/exporters will have a larger stock wouldn't they? This will have dire price consequence if stock are released even in a controlled market. But this is favorable to the existing situation, where they need not mantain any stock & merely just pays what they wish to buy at. There simply isnt enough statistic to work anything towards 'fair' pricing. Just maybe the purchasers are thus functioning as the unofficial exchange/cum buffer stock without having to actually stock anything.

Well maybe it;s too early to discuss these?
My other concern is that some countries will seize the opportunity and actually start a 'birdnest-exchange' and then control pricing.
Just thinking aloud.

To answer your question directly.. there are no price guides, just market driven by the latest market gossip and what the middleman/exporter spouts and wishes you to hear (a little like the stock market)

In reallity, we are living in a world of paradise...we got everything and we wasted everything and every opportunities that we have. To say that our past PMs are good, I don't think so or rather that I believe that we have everything in our favour and we got lucky each time and everytimes but how long will our lucky stars shine, I rather not predict it as that's our domed day!!!!!!

We basically have everything and you just name it, we have with except of a smart and sincere leader to put to where we should belong...at par with the world top countries. It's only take a good leader, selfless leader to put us up there but he hasn't been born or maybe we can look up to the present PM for that leadership. Our country is just like a ship that goes round and round and we are lucky that we have good weather all the time but one day, when a storm hits....really hard, we will all sink if we do not have a good captain to steer us to land.

All good things that we have will come to an end but so far we being lucky, when we lost this, we have another replacement and another and another but one day, my friend, we would not be so lucky. The Govt should help the buz to prosper but never prevent it to progress for the sake of the rest.....it is like pulling back the horse just because majority of the horses are slow but others do not wait for us......at the end, we Malaysian all suffer.

Just look around us, education, professional, trades or infact everything and we have to thank Mat for it for he is good at this game, presenting himself as the champion of the people, of the religion or everything of the world but what do that get us .........many publicly saying that He is the greatest but secretly, all laughing and calling Him "Ah New, the Representer". It only offend the powerful, the rich and old friends and making many enemies

Just look at the past, when we are in trouble, none of those He has helped or represented came forward even after appeals and only China and maybe some of our true friends came forward to help.

Hopefully, our BN industry will not suffer the same faith as the rest cos with a stroke of the pen, we all land in TBT. Our present PM is opening his ears thru internet and that's a very good sign and hope that he really means well..... for our future and that's of our country.

Any offence to anyone is unintentional and pls. accept my apology.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Jan 3 2010, 08:43 PM

Hehe, thanks coolandy.

I have the same aspiration as West Wing... despite all the shortcomings our country has, let it be corrupt officials, racist policies, unfair trade etc2... i still wish and yearn for the betterment of the industry. In this sense we need to identify who are the opportunists with hidden agendas... and who are being sincere to improve conditions for both the SSP's & market pricing.

As Bro Cergau said, there are the Merchant Associations, Bird House Owner Associations and i have to add that there will be more state Bumi Owner Associations soon. I have given my view about these bumi associations but there is no harm in discussing again. What matters most is the function of these associations, do their voices bring weight or not? Do some people heading these associations have hidden interests? Just some questions we can ponder on. This intertwines with politics. There were rumors of a National Level Bumi BH Owners Association which was suggested at the previous workshop done by Perhilitan at Paya Indah Wetlands... but i don't think it'll kick off anytime soon (bukan apa, rumors said the association will garner funds from the government, how far the rumor is true, i have no idea).

Brother Cergau, i have thought of your queries for a while now. Demand driven market, manipulation by brokers/middlemen... and a few other factors which include government policies (as in licenses/permits & enforcement).

Lets say there is a body controlling BN's price, in this case lets fantasize DVS plays that role. A fixed price according to some sort of periodic calculation based on trading trends every quarter/month (i am assuming something like MPOB's CPO/FFB pricing)? Merchants can't buy below that price, BH owners can't sell above that price... same goes for export & import. Lets say the agency collects the data from registered BH's, meaning BH with permits to harvest... and merchants with permits to sell & export. Now here are some problems;

1. Sales mostly done in cash. Theres also no way a BH owner nor trader will sell/buy by disclosing the actual price to other people outside their circle, whatmore to the authorities.
2. How many traders/exporters/owners actually have these permits? Detailed records of source of BN, how many, weight, frequency of harvest... all will be asked during application with regular audits... do we really disclose our sources? Lagi-lagi bila sumber pulak tiada permit atau lesen. It'll be like stabbing your own brother.
3. I also doubt the rates will be followed. The more basic consumer items can't be controlled, whatmore something like BN.
4. If such a guideline for pricing is done, there will be more rules and regulation... which is definitely what the industry does not need. Biarlah buat deal kat kedai kopi pun, as long as both party agrees. Anyways, this is where the Owner & Merchant association merge and should function. Most Merchant members are Owners as well.
5. Also... it will open an opportunity for certain parties to monopolize the industry... government controlled. Again, to me is a no-no for the industry.

Just my pov.

West Wing,
My sentiments exactly, we had everything at our disposal and to our advantage, we squandered the opportunity.
Our lucky stars?? It doesn't take a lot of imagination to sense it is dimming. The previous PM came into the job & found the kitty almost empty and was told that there was plenty more in the Petronas piggy bank. Now you see the current PM raising all kinds of taxes and removing critical subsidies. What does it tell you? There seem to be alot of 'initiatives' suddenly, one must realise that some are AFTA related. Thus are really not initiatives but are to comply with the agreements. For years analyst have been telling that M'sia is surviving on overdraft. You read between the lines !!!
As to wheter any of the PMs were good in terms bringing in developments (I hesitate to call it progress)?
I have my own pet belief...see where Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos & Vietnam are heading!
Where there's cheap labour that's where labour intensive industries will go. We got those industries then & has not gotten ahead beyond that. My pet belief is we would have got to where we are now even with a blind, mute & deaf person in charge. For the record I do not see him as all bad. He has some redeeming qualities.

---

Added on January 4, 2010, 12:01 pmDunsun,
I have anticipated the objections, maybe we can leave this for now for discussion in the future.

I fear that the game will change somewhat when the guidelines are published.
This is merely my guess....please don't flame me as I merely am playing the devil's advocate here.
Let's agree that the parties to the GAHP revision will work within the existing law. (as I have not sighted any new related legislation, pray tell if any of you have).
Other than the existing local legislation the other is CITES.
Thus far I recall the CITES recommendations were
1)gather further statistics
2)DNA differentiation
Perhilitan
From previous posts here on the 'requirements' from Perhilitan for whatever licences. They were all skewed towards data gathering. Does anyone here think that they will dispense with it. Me think not. So I predict the full current requirement will be intact.
PBT
PBT requirements.. I predict full disclosure will be the name of the game. I recall some of the past bad press where 1 particular councilman wanted to charge RM1K for the biz licence. So the licencing regime will make you declare full details. (the point here being that some of your above objections will soon be requirements).
The only saving grace will be IF they will be a 1 stop centre whcih I believe was requested for in the w/shop.
All the revision effort will have been spent on territorial marking by the parties.

Again if you are in touch with the nice lady in the Vets, nicely request for a preview feedback session.
Stress that it will not be nice for everyone if a flood of objections appear in the paper post publication.
Imagine if instead of protests, appreciations appear in the papers.
Prior knowlege does not convey material commercial advantage to anyone.
As such there shdnt be any tight control over it's contents.








This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 4 2010, 12:01 PM

No worries Cergau, not flaming or anything, just as u said, anticipating the possibilities since Malaysia is such an unpredictable place to live in. Superficially it may seem like a boost to the industry, but behind our backs it becomes a game of plotting monopoly. It is our function as individuals, association members, consumers, producers, promoters... to be aware of each and every action taken by authorities or even our own associations... rationally valuate the goods & bads and give our views. This is the check and balance system. I do not mind if protests are made if the new guideline is not conducive, we have a right to voice our views.

The suggested/rumored 1stopcenter... is an ideal idea. Less red tape, less hassle... but ONLY when they have the proper jurisdiction. If its function is only to shuffle paper around agencies to gain service charges... then it is useless.

Yes, they do charge RM1k for 'deposit', and annual premise licenses for around RM250-300. Depends on your local council. I have this bugging question... since SSP's come under the Industri Asas Tani, can't there be a negotiation to reduce such rates? SSP's do not do retail, fabrication, assembly, emit industrial waste or such other industrial stuff... its agriculture. We do not throw away the guano (since it is 'valuable', especially for new BH's), so far no risk of zoonotic diseases (at least unproven) and basically a low risk non-hazardous industry. With all the permits/licenses/approval/certificates needed, i sometimes think we are somehow Osama's minions secretly building a WMD instead of being SSP's.

Pure and organic Fertilizer in Bird shit and if we pack it properly, we can dried and even sell in supermarket for organic farming. Maybe, Rm10 per kilo and here, we have buyers for bird shit as fertilizer and sooner or later when people came to know about the advantage of birds guano, we will be better off as we can sell bird shit @ Rm10 per kilo. In a way, we are helping the country to save millions in buying fertilizer from oversea.

Someone must come out with an idea how to dry the guano and pack it well............many successful BHs have hundreds of kilo and simple addition will come close to a few thousands per cleaning..........that's will able to support your cleaners and harvesters.......plus maintenance, too.

Sorry, I am just dreaming only....getting old lah.

i just want to highlight the plight of some of the pubs near jalan sultan ismail like The Beach , Rum Jungle etc that recently been revoked their license to operate after complaints been made.
So these owners will now lose their investment right after so much risk and efforts were put in.
Will the same fate happen to the bird house built privately for business with licensing now. Anything could just snap in a minute once there's a complaint by the public against the business. No wonder that investors scares to do business in malaysia soon as the profits they made earlier also went to rescue their losses at the end of day. I think this nation got no hope now. Perhaps selling durians can catch better price than .