I thought I should start a thread about my favourite and most popular piece of clothing, selvedge (or selvage) jeans.

What is selvage denim? "Selvage produced currently means that it is produced on a vinatge loom and will show more character. These looms are very rare."

What it looks like, picture of FullCount denim (of Japan) selvedge shot courtesy of www.blueingreensoho.com



Notable brands include Levis LVC, Samurai (Japanese), Full Count (Japanese), Sugarcane (Japanese), Pure Blue Japan (Japanese), Skull, Imperial, The Flat Head, some runs of Evisu (Evisu No. 0, Evisu No. 1, Evisu No. 2, Evisu Deluxe, Evisu Brown Box), Dior Homme (MIJ - Made in Japan, MII - Made in Italy).

Overpriced denim include 7 for all Mankind, True Religion, most of Evisu

I own a pair of Levi 501XX 1947 and soon to be blessed with a pair of contest Full Count 0105C, pictures can be found here: http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showp...24&postcount=22

Selvedge denim care:

Soaking before wearing.

Buying raw denim requires a pre-soak in warm water 40 - 50 deg celcius to remove starch and all to get rid of all the shrinkage before wear. It should be noted that some jeans shrink below the tagged size (i.e. Levi 501XX '47 shrinks from a tagged size of W32 to W30, which then stretches back uncomfortably to a W31.5). Most Japanese denim shrink well into the tagged size (i.e. Fullcount 0105 tagged size of W31 measures 33inches, which then shrinks to W31). Sanforized denim will not shrink upon soaking, and semi-sanforized will only shrink a little.

It should be noted that the length and thighs would also shrink on soaking.

You should soak for 1 to 2 hours. There are some who leave it a whole night to soak. You can choose to soak inside out or outside out, it doesn't really matter in my opinion. Some soak with vinegar and salt to get rid of as much starch as they can, I just soak with plain water.

Hang and leave to dry, remember to massage and get rid of as much water as you can before hanging because indigo dye may run if your denim carries a lot of water while it hangs. You don't want that to happen.

Washing.

Most denim enthusiasts would tell you that if you want maximum contrasts on your denim, do not wash them until they really need to be washed (6 to 9 months before first wash). This makes it quite difficult for Malaysians, I know. It is best that if you cannot wait 6 months for your first wash that you send it to the drycleaners.

However, there are enthusiasts on the SuperFuture denim forum that have shown amazing fades with monthly washes! So you can do that too if it makes you happy.

Wash gently, use cold 30 deg C (or 40 deg C maximum) with soft detergent. Set the washing machine to no spin and gentle cycle as you don't want the washer to destroy your denim and the dye. It is recommended to turn your denim inside out when washing. Fold it well and line it along the sides of your washing machine.

Alternatively, for a softer wash, you may handwash your denim. Add detergent to water and swirl it until it starts to develop foam, but not too foamy! Too much detergent would damage the denim (bleaching due to phosphates). Remember that it is important to rinse the jeans thoroughly before drying and wearing as residual soap would increase wear and tear.

As with soaking, massage as much water out as you can before hanging to dry. Some enthusiasts recommend against hanging it in the hot sun (Malaysian sun is very hot!) which would cause the indigo dye to boil and affect your colour. This is hardly a concern as you wear your denim in the sun everyday anyway. I would hang it in the shade, though.


This post has been edited by mofonyx: Dec 14 2008, 11:36 AM

I have some collection. later upload my indigo blue 501 Big E reproduction (2000 last issue) with vintage cotton twill (and of course the famous red selvage), with all the features - single stictch in seam, hidden rivets for the backpockets, full copper rivets (new ones use stainless steel back) and a stamped pocket, the top buttonfly shows only one underlined singe digit (one digit denots single stitch in seam)

This post has been edited by lucifah: Dec 14 2008, 09:44 AM

Awesome, would like to see some denim porn.

I'm still breaking in and fading my Levis. I seldom wear them now because my thighs got bigger than the jeans, which makes it quite uncomfortable. I'm trying to get as much wear as I can before my Full Count arrive!

the jeans above is by topman, im not exactly sure if these are selvedge jeans but i really like the detailing of the white and black.. and yes i totally agree that jeans are meant to be washed infrequently.. i've purchased my Levi's 501s about 6 months back and i've still not washed it, i'll see how long i can last

That pair sure doesn't look like an authentic selvedge pair to me.

reporting in!

how about posting where to get these premium selvedge jeans in malaysia?

currently the only nice jeans i own is a pair of levis fenom..

any idea where to get dior homme MIJ, and the real good evisu? i heard the ones in bread n butter are the euro version and i don rely like the designs

Malaysia would be a bit difficult to find.

If you want jeans from Japan, you will need a Japanese proxy, there are services for you to obtain anything from Japan. For example, Zipangu Treasures. Rakuten.co.jp is another alternative to get your denim.

I believe you can get Dior Homme MIJ in any Dior branch. They would measure 19cm (ouch! skinnies) and are vanity sized (i.e. 30in tagged W29).

Good Evisu are usually imported from Japan anyway, so use a proxy or buy it from a retailer. Bread & Butter is shite to be honest. If you're looking for a sweet pair of Evisu Deluxe, drop me a line and I'll buy you a pair in London. I can get your Dior Homme MIJ from Selfridges as well

so its not possible to get dior homme in malaysia?

because im reaaaally not familiar with their measurements.. jus wana try it on to make sure. haha

hrmm, trying on selvedge jeans gives you very little idea on how the final fit is, unless it's sanforized.

This is because most jeans are raw and unsanforized. They will shrink after soaking and form a better snug fit.

There is a whole resource on how jeans fit and how you should buy them. If you're interested in getting a pair, I can give you sizing advice.

im actually not a selvedge jeans guy.. care to explain the difference of selvedge jeans and why they are considered special compared to others.. thanks..

As mentioned in the first thread

"Selvage produced currently means that it is produced on a vintage loom and will show more character. These looms are very rare."

Character could refer to fade, honeycombing (the crisscrossing behind the knees), creasing or just how they wear and shrink.

bumping this up because people keep creating new denim threads.

ohh... self edge denim

i have an a.p.c NS & hipster, imperial duke blue and naked&famous skinny guy silk

gonna cop some flatheads or dior hommes when i have the money

Selvage or self edge is the term for denims that has been produced on a shuttle loom and since the amount of fabric produced from a shuttle loom is significantly narrower than a projectile loom, the cotton consumption is higher and the time required is greater. In selvage jeans, you will see the actual edge of the fabric where the weaving stops and is finished by the loom, as opposed to denim woven on a projectile loom, where the fabric has been cut off at the ends.

actually any raw jeans will have that personal touch (whiskers,fades,honeycombings) once it has been abused,worn and broken in. But not all jeans that are raw are selvedge as selvage is just the term used for the natural edge of a roll of fabric. also, not all selvage jeans are raw as they have been prewashed before hand even tho most selvage denim today are unwashed.

Selvage (selvedge) is not equivalent to Self Edge, which is a shop in USA (also having their online shop by the same name).

I didn't say that all raw jeans are selvage, nor did I say that non-selvage jeans would lack the personal touch of whiskers, fading and honeycombing.

I merely stated that selvage has the benefit of adding more character to your wear. Misquoting me makes me very uncomfortable.

Selvage=selvedge=self edge

FYI, The word "selvage" comes from the phrase "self-edge", the natural edge of a roll of fabric.
And FYI, i knw that theres a store called Self Edge in San Francisco and ive even been there a couple of times to cop my pair of apc and imps as i reside in south cali/SoCal. Ive even met the owner of the shop before, Kiya Babzani.


You were merely talking about selvage denim. and frm your definition of selvage "....and will show more character...." and "Character could refer to fade, honeycombing (the crisscrossing behind the knees), creasing or just how they wear and shrink."

so, from that context u ARE assuming that all selvedge jeans will have that character/personal touch which is not true as ah ah ah pay attention, RAW jeans are the one would develop all those wear and fades since they have not been prewashed. what made me assume that u thought all raws are selvage and all selvage are raws is that i thought u knew how to distinguish between raw and selvage and knew the difference of them two..that is why when u say "selvage...character" i thought u meant all selvage was raw since only raw jeans will have that aforementioned character. turns out to be im wrong, u had no idea that they have two totally different meaning.

Again you are wrong here :

"I merely stated that selvage has the benefit of adding more character to your wear. Misquoting me makes me very uncomfortable."

selvage doesnt have the benefit of adding more character. its just the edge of the fabric. the fact that it hasnt been machine wash (to remove excess dye and starch) in which we call raw/dry is the one that will add character to the fabric of the denim after months and months of wear, not the fact that it is selvage..comprende,senor ?

Although selvage denim is not completely synonymous with unwashed (raw) denim, the presence of selvage typically implies that the denim used is a higher quality produced on a vintage shuttle loom.

NOW, mister, i think you need to keep an open mind as im not trying to bring you down at all. there were mistakes which are misleading and im just pointing it out.

Again,

1.Dry or raw denim, as opposed to washed denim, is a denim fabric that is not washed after being dyed during its production. Over time, denim will generally fade, which is often considered desirable.

2.Selvage denim (also called selvedge denim) is a type of denim which forms a clean natural edge that does not unravel.

Please please please...theres no reason to be uncomfortable at all since there was no misquoting made in the very first place...what made u uncomfortable was ur challenged big fat ego that kicked in ur defensive mode.

to be honest with you, the very first post of this thread u made contained so many errors and misleading statements. im just being nice of not correcting it for the fear of humiliating you.

This post has been edited by THREEPOINTsix: Jan 7 2009, 02:36 PM

wut abt RMC. anyone heard abt this brand before?

Yeah probably. Also, maybe my fking messed up sleeping hours and medicated sleep has got to me. Apologies. I should really not reply to threads anytime past 12am.

You were mentioning that not all selvedge is raw. It was already apparent to me that they do not always overlap. My post was merely stating the benefits of having 'selvedge' and what 'selvedge' would bring to the table. 'Selvedge' gives you more character when worn. In an ideal world, all selvedge denim should be raw, because stone washed is a crime. 'Selvedge' does not merely describe the edge of the fabric, it also signifies that it came from an old (vintage?) loom (usually), and the benefits of being woven in and old (vintage?) loom bears more character - irregular weave, tighter weave, slubby-ness etc.

I was just stating the benefits of having 'selvedge' in terms of denim, which is character (assuming raw, read: ideal world), which was in response to answering jind86's post. I failed to address (admittedly) that some selvedge can be 'not raw' (cooked? ha), but I probably didn't realise this because... who would pay for stonewashed jeans? Then I realised that this is the general public, not enthusiasts like you/me.

Good post, now that I'm awake. You seem to know more than me, but you were picking apart my post anyway.

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Added on January 7, 2009, 8:57 pmAlso, I've never heard that the origins of selvedge came from self-edge. Thanks for enlightening.

All in good nature?

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Added on January 7, 2009, 11:03 pmAlso, by all means point out the errors on the first post. I shall edit them in due time.

It's a forum after all.

This post has been edited by mofonyx: Jan 7 2009, 11:03 PM

fair enough.

so lets say if i want to get a nice natural fade, honeycombing n creasing, its best suggested to go for selvage denim which are raw, right?

and probably the character will be more visible after a year or so?

good discussion there, but all that i've registered in my head is that self edges on jeans signifies that the denim used is a higher quality one, right? because honeycombing n fades can also be 'done' on normal raw jeans

Well, yeah, generally it would give you a higher quality because of the characteristics from the vintage looms as described above. It's more desirable.

Not all selvedge denim has selvedge. A.P.C. has a pair (New Cures?) which tapers a lot at the bottom so the selvedge is cut off. It's a selvedge denim without the selvedge, I guess.

yes as long as it is raw, those fades are possible, after alot of wear/abuse and prolly some soaks.

Timberland Selvedge Jeans are available in Malaysia, I must say from personal inspection that they appear of very good quality and the cut is similar to 501xx 1947 levis.

and it's white selvedge for RM500+!!! Woo hoo cop!

Timberland making selvage jeans?

I'll take a pass

http://www.timberlandonline.co.uk/on/deman...or=000171454532

Quality-wise, Timberland is 100000000x better than Topman. I've seen selvage jeans from both and pfff... Topman's a joke.

Agreed, but if you're spending that kind of money anyway, might as well get something else?

If anyone is interested in premium raw jeans... try Nudie. They makes nice raw selvedge jeans.

Evisu is more baggy to me. Nudie are slim fit.

They are Swedish product. The only place i know sell this brand is in Singapore China town. There is a shop which sell premium jeans.

Each pair cost about SGD$480. Believe me. It's one hell of a jeans... It just looks great.......

Nudies? The cheaper brand. Crotch bust galore.

Good starter jeans though.

Never have a pair of Nudies before , my starter one is A.P.C

just sharing my 2 rare collection, evisu lot 001 and a another very very early edition, both made in japan

not like the current in the boutique where made in china ..

nice evisu's ivanswk..

denim experts - is it possible to shrink my regular levis 501?

we use to call it "redline" or japanese calls it akamimi ...

i have a pair re-pro - Leather Tag Lot S501XX W36 L36

Any takers ? Condition 8.5/10

Start with RM380

im itchin to get a pair of evisu

tried the ones in bread n butter n didn't like the cutting and the designs are limited.

im lookin for unwashed / one-washed ones

i've seen on the evisu online shop and the price is like half compared to the ones in bread n butter (they mark up too much)

where else can i get reasonably priced evisu

cosign. cheap mondays and apc too are good for starters.
nudie is a joke.
acne is a much better counterpart of nudie. and its much worth the money. both swedish.

This post has been edited by Okini: Apr 6 2009, 04:48 PM

Nudie is a joke? wow, haven't heard THAT before. But I do feel they're a little bit overrated somehow... hmmm yeah, I prefer Acne. Acne is just getting better every season, I'm impressed.

There's a really good denim guide at Oki-ni, I don't know if you guys are aware, but anyway here it goes http://www.oki-ni.com/page/technical

cool, thanks for the link..

this is my third pair of apc. its petit standards btw.
crotch blowout on NS and hipster stretched too much

This post has been edited by Okini: Apr 18 2009, 07:19 AM

question: how do you destroy your own jeans? i don't really like my black levi's right now, cause it's all black without any other tone. but i bought it anyway cause it's so hard to find a black one nowadays. right now i just need to find someone or somewhere where they can do some destroying or damaging to make 'em look better.

use cheese grater..

u need to wear them hard. or sand paper the creases to create fades. also, why not just get some raw/unwashed denim ?

Sorry for digging up such an old thread, but....

I'm looking to get my first pair of raw selvedge jeans. Any recommendations?
I would like the cutting to be a little slim. but not skinny though. And where can i get them in Malaysia?
I see too many washed jeans out there
I don't mind ordering online if the price's reasonable too

thanks in advance.

Any budget in mind? The Evisus in Bread and Butter are seriously sweet if your wallet is loaded.

i don't really know what's the price range for selvdege jeans, i'm kinda hoping it will be around 500 or so, what do you reckon?
There's a sale going on at Evisu's website actually, up to 70%. But i heard from some people that evisus are kinda baggy,
so i'm holding back.

by the way, is bread and butter a shop? where?

i used to like evisu's as well, and yeah most are rather baggy.. but i think the hardcore selvedge jeans guys here would recommend brands like a.p.c, naked & famous..

and yes bread & butter is a store, there's one in garden's and in tangs, pavillion..

http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?...44&sec=lifearts

This post has been edited by jind86: Jul 9 2009, 12:31 PM

shame on me, never heard of a.p.c. before
for some reason i couldn't get into their website, but i found this.
I like what i'm reading
how much would a pair set me back? and where can i get one?

baggy clothes are a big NO to me, so, evisu's kinda out of the picture.

ur best bet would be singapore. there are a lot of raw denim enthusiasts there. go arnd and try asking arnd. cause last i checked, they had brands like imperials, ksubi, acne, pure blue japan, samurais so yah, go singapore. or better still order online. but for a starter i would say go for brands like a.p.c or nudie :-)

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Added on July 9, 2009, 9:06 pmall apcs are USD$155 no lower than that since the company has a pretty strict discount and sales policy. u can get them online at context clothing or denimbar

This post has been edited by Okini: Jul 9 2009, 09:06 PM

i don't really go down to singapore often, so....

$155 sounds like a fair price to me. But what's the difference between a.p.c. rescue and a.p.c. new standard?
someone enlighten me please.

Okini rescued you sooner than I could find this thread.

I'm a big fan of the new Evisu Lazy S No.13 LEFT http://shop.evisu.com/collections/mens/pro...ge_lazy_s_jeans

Which is a vintage more slender Lee-esque fit.

About the differences on APC http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=45979





You can easily get someone to hook you up with a nice pair of jeans if they are overseas.

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Added on July 10, 2009, 1:40 pmWord of advice, don't get anything from bread and butter. The prices are inflated and their selection is horrible (no No.1 is a crime!). If you want I can probably pull a favour from a friend to get discounted Evisus from London. No promises though.

Get Okini to hook you up and give him a bit of cash for the favour

This post has been edited by mofonyx: Jul 10 2009, 01:40 PM

fenom.....dope dope.. xD sorry for hijacking this thread...=P

i hope this pic makes sense :-)

ps - petit standards
nc - new cures
ns - new standards

what do you guys thinks of a guy who is wearing a girls jean?is it ok?

if u have the body shape and can pull it off why not ?

hmmm do they ship to malaysia? i cant find malaysia under the country selection.. hmmm..

^ hmm i dunno if they ship to msia or not. thats why i say the best thing to do is go singapore loh. or get someone who lives in singapore to get it for u. sure got apc wan.

IINM Self Edge ships world wide! But they don't have Malaysia listed under the country selection. Doesn't hurt to call Self Edge to ask what's up! I'm sure Kiya's a nice guy, Okini's met the man.

yeah. he is very nice and a rather insightful man indeed. then again i was his customer... all store-owners are good and nice to customers. too bad san francisco is too far away..lol. oh yeah fyi, self edge dont carry a.p.c

thanks for the offer, i'll tell you or something if i need your help.

thanks, clears up everything.

erm, i don't really now what's IINM Self Edge, care to explain?

I would actually prefer to buy it in shops, do they the have the Levis Vintage line in KL?

IINM = If I'm Not Mistaken
Self Edge is the denim store in Cali

This post has been edited by Fusion[eX]: Jul 13 2009, 12:27 AM

smart decision.
yeah, u need to try them on first to see how it fits you.. tbh, some of the cuts are not really flattering if u have big thighs.
im really scrawny and my first pair of apc was an NS and it stretched A LOT (up to 2 inches) and i didnt like the fit. but it all depends on how tight u wan it tho'.

that's what i have in mind too. that's why i'm looking around to see where they sell raw jeans. but i'm a little tight on the budget though

what type of cut suitable for big thigh ?

if u're talking about APCs, then u get the Rescues which is a relaxed straight cut.

you can try and get nudies. i wore shorts most of them time until last year i bought this nudie jeans from singapore...mannn it looks good.

from then on, i cant stop buying them haha....ive got 8 nudies so far hehe

or anything modelled after the Levi '44 and '55 cuts. A lot of Japanese denim use the Levi cuts, because it appeals to the niche market of denim enthusiasts.

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Added on July 22, 2009, 3:40 pmI think it's a waste to get 8 pairs of Nudies. There are much better denim out there.

This post has been edited by mofonyx: Jul 22 2009, 03:40 PM

what do you recommend bro? apart from nudies

holy moley 8 pairs ? are they all raw/unwashed and comes with selvedge line or what ? cause having 8 pairs of raw denim is ridiculous, thats like 8 yrs worth of wear even before u can have like decent fades.

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Added on July 22, 2009, 5:03 pmfor that price+a little bit more u can get like imperial dukes, skulls, enishi, edwins or flat heads for a far more superior denim quality.

This post has been edited by Oki-ni: Jul 23 2009, 01:45 AM

noob ques here....its levis 501 jeans consider as raw jeans?

Levis Vintage Collection 501XX 1947s is raw and selvedge

And would you happen to know how I can get my hands on a pair of Levis Vintage Collection 501XX 1947s?

kotmj, big thighs cannot fit into 501XX 1947. I have a pair.

but you can try your hand at many online stores (even Levi's online)

cultizm.com will get you what you want. Remember it shrinks 2" arond the waist.

I think the only type of jeans I would buy online are those I can try out beforehand in person. This means only Evisu (at Parkson Pavillion or any B&B).

Maybe I can find some reason to go to Singapore someday.

there isn't much of a reason to try beforehand, because they shrink to fit anyway, you're going to size up 2"

u can try muji....

It's incredible the Malaysian market is so primitive when it comes to selvedge jeans.

nvm, we have our good friend singapore whos very well stocked.

hey mofonyx,
how's your fullcount coming along? what are your thoughts on it? i'm planning to get a pair soon

goldlion, it's an awesome pair of jeans. If you don't have big thighs from the gym, I would suggest 1108 which is a better fit and would fade with wear better (the 0105C is a bit straight and anti-fit).

All in all, good classic fades. Not grainy like Warehouse, which is also desirable to some! Check out the Fullcount contest thread in Superfuture. I haven't been wearing mine to bits because I'm constantly bogged down by exams (gym also no time, friends also no time).

I recommend them!

^ive never seen a pair of raw fullcount jeans before and been wonderin how slubby are they ? uve been havin them for quite a while rite ? any soaks ?

mofonyx, cheers for the info. i'm actually kinda sick of slim/skinny jeans at the moment. breaking in raw slim denim in KL is a real b****. now i'm looking for something loose and soft to break in. that's why i wann try FC.

the 0105C sounds pretty much like what i'm looking for atm. is that the model u have?

the sufu FC contest is mainly the 1108 only innit. haven't seen the other models in there

@goldlion: There are 0105Cs but they don't fade as well cos of the looser fit, so they aren't getting as much attention/posts as the 1108C.

If you feel you like the looser fits then sure go ahead! 0105C is a great vintage fit. I reckon it's after the '55 or '44 Levi 501 silhouette.

@oki-ni: I'm not very fond of the term slubby. What does it mean exactly? It is hairy, though, with leg twist. I've soaked it twice. Shrinkage is quite significant but it stretches back to a good comfy fit. I would probably soak again tomorrow or day after!

yea most FC threads in sufu are all on the 1108, nothing much about their other models. right now am looking at either the 0105 or 1101 model.

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This post has been edited by marsalee: Nov 10 2010, 03:58 PM

^nice pair of sammies there bud.. did u take out the backpocket stitching by urself ?;p

Looking for your opinions: I've been wearing a 501 for the past two years and now that I've been sensitized to jeans, I would prefer the jeans without the big tan label at the back. If I were to remove it now, there'll be a patch of original indigo blue in its place. Should I, or should I not?

Sammies still new, I hope you aren't babying them

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Added on August 1, 2009, 11:26 pmkotmj don't alter anything.

oki-ni, the backpocket stitching is 'hidden'. It should show itself soon

This post has been edited by mofonyx: Aug 1 2009, 11:26 PM

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This post has been edited by marsalee: Nov 10 2010, 03:58 PM

oic.. lol... anyway what model (year of make) and where did u get them from ?? cuase the only samurais that ive seen irl is like this


This post has been edited by Oki-ni: Aug 3 2009, 12:01 AM

The anniversary edition and specials have a thick thread sewn UNDER the pocket. So it fades with wear into an arc.

I know, I shat brix too.

jeebus christ!!! u gotta be kddin me... my next pair is definitely gonna be a samurai alrite... thankx for the info man!!!

Hey guys where can I get a pair of seven for all mankind jeans other then their outlet at klcc and bread &
Butter?? Which tangs outlet do they have? Are they cheaper in singapore

7 for all mankind sucks

that is all. wrong thread brah.

Premium jeans, not overpriced shit.

nice pair of sams up there. gonna be awesome after it's nicely broken in.

hi guys..ive got some question since im a beginner for the jeans..please help me with this..

how do wash the jeans,take care of it and how often should we wash it?
what's special if the jeans is selvedge?

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This post has been edited by marsalee: Nov 10 2010, 03:59 PM

Hi guys I currently own a pair of Nudie Straight Sven Selvage, currently Im targeting a pair of Sugar Cane Okinawa but where can I buy s sz29 with Inseam 31 or 32?
34 is too long for me, Im short so the most is 32

okinawas 28 and 29 inseams are 32 and 32.5 respectively. if u dont like the lneght u can always get them hemmed or cuff em'/. also if u like, stack the bottom ?

This post has been edited by Oki-ni: Aug 11 2009, 08:32 PM

the 32.5 can stretch summore right? Yea I do stack but once it stretches then it looks real long especially at the knee..

Hope can find some solution here, by the way is it alright to hem them? would it kill the cutting of the jeans?

sorry for my dumb questions, still a noob jeans consumer