Pai,

Emotion will always cloud your mind and obstruct you from seeing the obvious, disabling you from reading the simple.

Hope u understand SW is selling a condo + lifestyle, seems like u rarely go out with the younger generation and lost touch with the trends.

Since u r in the stage of "cold war" syndrome, can accomodate 1 opinion only...

No point to retype everything here for all the answered questions, but i just leave it to the genuine interested party to judge the following:

1. Would a goodwill of a developer has any bearing in term of properties' potential and likelihood of complete VP in time? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4nuIyPHnFM

2. Are there plenty or lacking of businessman in Puchong?

3. Is paper gain = materialized profit?

4. Is SW different from Zest, Zen... in term of concept and lifestyle? Is yes, would there be a market differentiation?

5. Selling fast = Good? have you seen any exception?

6. Can all businessman afford a Bungalow or Semi D?

7. Is personal preference one of the contributing factor in one's decision?

8. Is "expensive" an illusion subject to affordability, with a little bit of personal preference?

9. Is "high End" subject to relativity?

10. Comparing Rolex and B&R, Rolex is definitely more practical, why some younger generation opts for B&R given the same price tag?

11. Can the above questions be answered by mere common sense?

12. Would those in ZEST, Zen...face the traffic jam? Zen may need to use the same highway to reach home...

AND this one for Pai,

13. Have you rented ANY property out before? Have you rented your property to expats? U said u are in this busibess looooooooooong enough.. Really, how do i verify it is your imagination, self inflation, or the least possible fact? r u showing us some proof or..... OMG, i have reasonable doubt bc you have the tendency to be self inflated, like putting AirAsia Boss up there...

Given you "outstanding" record in Zest, i'm not sure whether u can read or not...Did you enjoy the youtube link, in which you rubbished all the claims?
And i'm sure you bought Zen, judging from your proposition of facilities, ALL expat will rush to Zen, so 1 unit, i floor or 1 block you bought?

Oops, top up Qs:-

14. Is Chuah Xui Cheng always right? Bonus question, answer is NO, a BIG NO

15. Is Pai always right? If Yes, 15.1 was he right in rubbishing all the claims against Zest's dev, 15.2 and asking everyone to wait for minimum a year for Zest, and he bought one in 6 months?

This post has been edited by chuah xui cheng: Sep 19 2009, 11:31 PM

Hi Kekanda Xui Cheng,

I miss u so much .. and the fun as well
one big guy down in realestate and here comes another chief .. haha ..
salute ..
like cannot tahan, i like u three ..

WALAUEH, AIYOYO, we reunited...finally...

U want to try the Q & A?

I feel like falling in love again, adinda

Har cool .. was looking back at the previous post which i find it interesting .. ur personal view that sw is no longer overpriced but expensive is a valuable insight .. can u see the distinction between these two words ... first ppl tend to think that it is overpriced which means that the product doesnt worth tht much and find it hard to justify the price .. now with the lrt confirmed, ppl think that the price is more justified but still expensive (a downgrade from overprice) ... i m glad to hear this ... i believe sw is moving in the right direction ..

ok not too much into pricing .. cos like xuicheng said, it's all in realestate forum .. at this moment i dun expect any new discussion to justify the price ... second block launching price will be interesting to see then ..

but let's go back to chief .. i want to point out at zest developer ..
personally i m amazed with zest selling point .. i think everything works in favor for this development .. but developer is a big concern ..
1) heron resident has been complaining so hard on this developer and to my shock with Mr Cannot Tahan recent video
2) i was told one en bloc was alr sold to korean .. in the end didnt materialise ...
3) lrt station jst opposite road .. but looking from the lrt map, it has at least 1km to reach the station .. but it is still not that bad anyway ...
the point is .. how can u trust this kind of developer .. even if the show unit is nicely done, it is unlikely ur unit will be of same standard .. heron experience is so sad to learn .. u can onli wish tht 80% is delivered then it is ok .. however, i see the risk in this development is much higher than sw ... so instead of judging if sw is worth tht price, it would even be better to keep a close eye on ur developer .. good luck to u ..

---

Added on September 20, 2009, 1:06 amalr well said by Xui Cheng .. would rather hope for a better question ..

---

Added on September 20, 2009, 1:09 amhehe ... me too ..

This post has been edited by zavier98: Sep 20 2009, 01:09 AM

All your answers above not only avoiding my previous question, but failed to back up your previous claim below :

1. SW will be the land mark of puchong.
2. If Puchong slump, SW also slump.
3. If PFCC, IOI Belev, SW commercial blocks all work out, SW will be the 1st one to be benefited.

Claiming something that isnt true/cant be proven, is wishful thinking and blatantly misleading (Am being polite trying not to label you a liar that is working very hard to push only one particular project, its almost like you are working for SP).

---

Added on September 20, 2009, 2:33 amHi Zavier, glad to see there's at least 2 rational SW owner

Look, I never said SW is a bad product. Expensive yes (at least for me), but not a bad product. I think its expensive as Zen, Atmosfera, Zest etc all are sold for at least 30% cheaper VS SW. But with the LRT forthcoming, I see value in SW. Given sufficient time.........SW will appreciate n make decent gains for its buyers. But VS others, appreciation might be on slower pace as I believe that SP has priced SW residential units too high to fund their expensive :

1. Zero Interest undercon program
2. Marketing expenses
3. Retail units

Im not alone with these thoughts, u can see various forumers with decent credibility share the same sentiment. We r not talking about ppl who just registered lately, and only made comments on SW thread(no effence to u or Xui Cheng). These r genuine investors and have made decent $$$$ in years of property investment. Looking at sales levels achieved by Zest, Zen and Atmosfera compared to SW, one has to wonder. Its already difficult to sell SW now(at least from the sales performance), imagine u asking ppl to buy your unit at 20%-30% premium later.........


And yes, saw your comments on Zest dev and I think those are fair thoughts especially on what happened to Heron, korean enbloc etc. My thoughts are :

1. Heron is 1st project for TT, definitely there's some learnings TT needs to accept. But SW is SPS's 1st highrise project in KV, there's no guarantee that SW wont turn up to be as bad or worst than Heron, right? SHC builds excellent landed props, but lousy high rise, for example. SW holds no guarantees as well.

2. Korean en-bloc - I've warned that potential buyers need to take news like this like pinch of salt. The same for LRT station proposal. If it happens its a bonus. Now at least the LRT and ramp seems will happen as promised, and at RM200psf Zest now looks like a steal

3. SPS promises and sells lifestyle to buyers like your good self. But did they put in in a contract? And pls look at the surrounding new shop lots and retail units surrounding SW site. Most of it is empty. There's no guarantee that SW wont end up the same. SPS has zero track record as far as building lifestyle mall is concerned but trying to sell "lifestyle" units at a premium, above 50% VS other new developments.


Bottomline, all developers r there to make $$$ first. One needs to decide whether what the developer sells you is worth paying for(minus ALL the promises of lifestyle, LRT, Korean enbloc etc), else you'll pay thru your rear-bottom instead.




This post has been edited by Pai: Sep 20 2009, 02:33 AM

Confirm that Pai will only see what he wants to see, hear only what he wants to hears.

Given him all the self explanatory Q also he is going no way. In fact if he attempt the 15Qs, he will be so closed to the core, but he failed. Pai, you have to start from the basic to be good.

Simply cut and Paste some articles from those real estate book wont take u far...

Start from the basic Pai, be humble enough to learn, atleast finish the 15 Qs and we can start to have intellectual discussion.

Whether i'm misleading???Let's time to prove.

Atleast we have proven Pai was misleading and continue to mislead...

Baseless claim?

1. In mArch 09, Pai asked everyone not to buy Zest, asking them to "trust" him that zest cannot sell at least 1 year. This is confirmed misleading.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/952900

2. Then he suddenly buy one in Sep, 1 of the very last unit,letting all his "followers" behind....

3. When those Heron's owners were crying all the defects, he claimed that these people were funny, he claimed thatit was a 100++ aprtment and what can they expect?
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1129024/+420

4. OMG, Pai claimed Puchong no bissnessman????? Amazingly misleading

Sure Pai, what can the Heron's owner expect? Because that is not your house.

Pai is also proven to be a spoon fed and lact of common sense, for example, do i need to elaborate on "If Puchong Slump, SW will also Slump"?

You are a good joker.

------------------------------------------------

Adinda Zavier,
I am sorry for putting up all the entry level questions. I thought it is for the benefit of Pai, so that he could understand bit by bit. Pai failed me...

I do hope for a better one.

I give up already, if you read how Pai commented on the complain of Heron's owners, u will know why i said he is seriously lacking of common sense, as all the cracks and popping floor appears to be funny for Him.

And he asked Heronian what can they expect with a100++ aprtment? Surely a men with common sense will not accept popping floor even in a DBKL flat...

Thanks

This post has been edited by chuah xui cheng: Sep 20 2009, 11:09 AM

Hrm to be fair - I think one makes decision based on the market situation, and the future.

Back in March, the economy was looking gloomy indeed. LRT plans were also fishy, it would seem the federal government was all out against any non-BN state projects.
So indeed, Pai's analysis is correct during that time.

3 months later, we made some sort of a V-shaped recovery, along with all the stimulus and ever low interest rates. LRT plans suddenly goes ahead.
These were all quite unexpected, and it had nothing to do with the developer, but rather purely a change in consumer behaviour, confidence and risk taking.
This was surely bound to happen, but maybe no one expected it to be so quickly.

So, the data now is quite different compared to the past. It will also, requires change the valuation and decisions one make.

Kekanda Xui Cheng,
With one more down, where would be ur next target haha ..
like Pai said, there are many taikors in other forums who shared the same view as him .. who's next ?

Pai,
i hope in future, other ppl dun say the same thing to u
"what can zestian expect with a 200k apartment ...

haha .. taikor taikor ... i see they dun learn anymore when they are high lvl .. they onli give advise now ..

Since I have no vested interest in any of the above, thought I will just pitch in something

I think to compare SW vs Zest, both being first phases high rise condo, Puchong area with access to LRT, and relatively close proximity (except maybe SW has better access to larger roads and commercial centers) - it seems to coming down to a fight between developers - and if it's worth your money paying for that.

My opinion is, SP Setia and Zest are targeting different markets, with the former focusing not just on providing a shelther, but also lifestyle and living.
If I'm choosing for own stay, definately SW over Zest.

But for investment, since it's about profit/loss and ROI - SW's higher price makes it less attractive. Also, there're landed props within the range available in Puchong as well.
Zest is about 30% cheaper psqf basis, but you probably get what you're paying for.

So which one? Different people, different answers...

Agree, absolutely.

I pointed out the fact to prove that Pai isn't always right as he think he is. The fact speak on its own.

In fact, i was amazed when i first read the "advice" back then while I was still going into the market, capitalizing on the situation.

Surely, he is working in the opposite direction of the great investor, WB.

Thanks

---

Added on September 20, 2009, 5:40 pmDear Pai,

I have told u that let's discuss the generality first b4 we go 1 step further on SW specifically. How do we go a step further when you cant even answer the general questions about Puchong?

And it shows that u cant read, If you are a little bit more prudent and diligent, you will notice i was "promoting" (in your words) IOI also (in bandar puteri puchong), so?

And would u offer explanation for your comments on Heron, or you refrain yourself from doing so bc you have vested interest in Zest?

Pai, it is your complacent and reluctance, together with your cold war syndrome that stop you from growing.

And Lets see if you can actually answer the 15 basic questions, or you'll continue doing what u do best, which is laughing off the Heronian's complain AND giving wrong advice as you gave in Zest

Thanks and wish you good career progress, provided you can start to read and learn.

This post has been edited by chuah xui cheng: Sep 20 2009, 06:31 PM

hi all,
ive read through the forum and still confused...great feedbacks though. Ive missed out the earlier phase of SW and now thinking of the next phase...to be around Rm300k for the 854 sft. Do you think its still feasible to buy?

You go to a good hotel eat 1 Char Keow Theo is RM20++. If u see a flies in your food, the hotel manager will quickly replace 1, give u desert, ALL FREE.

If you sue the hotel, they have money to pay...

You go to MAMAK, same food, RM3nett, see a flies, the fella ask u "apa masalah"?

You want to sue him? u dont even know who to sue...

You can call this superstition, I am superstitious, HAHAHA

All your answers above not only avoiding my previous question, but failed to back up your previous claim below :

1. SW will be the land mark of puchong.
2. If Puchong slump, SW also slump.
3. If PFCC, IOI Belev, SW commercial blocks all work out, SW will be the 1st one to be benefited.

Claiming something that isnt true/cant be proven, is wishful thinking and blatantly misleading (Am being polite trying not to label you a liar that is working very hard to push only one particular project, its almost like you are working for SP).

Now Pai is vey busy, can only cut and Paste. HAHAHA, busy with Heron & Zest

Well done Pai for amusing us. Sincere thanks

---

Added on September 20, 2009, 8:25 pmAdinda Zavier,

Game Over, Pai is done

see you again.

But u can see how he "justify" and defend Zest's Dev in http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1129024/+520

Thanks

This post has been edited by chuah xui cheng: Sep 20 2009, 08:27 PM

I tot' they already engage a consultant to see how to best tackle the problem with the existing owners DESPITE they r not obligated to do so as they DLP is over?


Well, honestly dont think we'll get HERON's quality as we paid almost double price psf vis a vis. But if Zest does end up like HERON, then its a learning for me.......thats all.

Let me remind everyone here while Zest is TT's 2nd high rise project, SW is the first highrise project for SP in KV. SP has zero track record as far as mix development is concerned. There no guarantee that SW will be problem free and the quality will be better than Heron's or Zest's.

Any savvy investor will have little or zero faith in developer's promises. We buy when we see value, not based on developer's sweet-talk and nice marketing strategy. Again, SPS has zero track record in building and managing a mix development.

Read thru the Zest thread as there have been many occasions myslef and other foumers warned prospects to only buy Zest if they think its a good buy even without LRT, ramp, Korean-enbloc etc. In this thread, only Cannot Tahan has so far been quite honest with his assesment on SW.

IMO, cannot sell dont give me faith at all.....

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Added on September 20, 2009, 9:03 pmAll your answers above not only avoiding my previous question, but failed to back up your previous claim below :

1. SW will be the land mark of puchong.
2. If Puchong slump, SW also slump.
3. If PFCC, IOI Belev, SW commercial blocks all work out, SW will be the 1st one to be benefited.

Claiming something that isnt true/cant be proven, is wishful thinking and blatantly misleading (Am being polite trying not to label you a liar that is working very hard to push only one particular project, its almost like you are working for SP).



This post has been edited by Pai: Sep 20 2009, 09:03 PM

Pai is caught in telling lie again, refer to the below which u can find in http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...520&p=28759963&

----------------------------------------
Pai Said,
[/B]
[[b]QUOTE(Pai @ Sep 20 2009, 09:07 PM)
same, just saw the video yesterday hence I retract my statement on the Heron's issues. Last I commented on Heron i only saw negative comments on the maintenance and tenant issues.

I feel sorry for HERON owners and i hope TT will quickly solve this serious issues for the benefit of everyone.[/B][/B]
-----------------------------------------------
[b]Which I replied

Oh Pai, can u stop lying?

Do u need me to remind what you have said...

YOU SAID:---------------------------------------------

Pai Sep 13 2009, 04:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
From: Hell
I wonder why ppl complaint so much when Heron is property they bought for 100k++ only. Were they expecting Sunrise level of workmanship?
Keep on saying workmanship is bad but never highlight the details.....dem funny

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1129024/+420
---------------------
You were refering to "workmanship"; And now u try to twist and turn, limiting your statement to "maintenance" & "Tenant" issue?

Well, are u a bad liar or suffering from lapse of Memory?

MG, Pai, do u have to defend the Dev all the way just bc u r vested in Zest!!!

PS: Anyway, u r my good boy, always follow what i ask u to do, Keep it up
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think we shall not give a serious look to his posts anymore as his credibility is totally gone, Until he confess and change, then we shall give him a chance.

This post has been edited by chuah xui cheng: Sep 20 2009, 10:56 PM

After glancing through all the comments and subject them to maximum evaluation, I will grab another one, going for the smallest unit.

Decision is reached by taking into consideration of Puchong as a whole, predicted market outlook in 2012, direct & indirect effect from expanding economy in Puchong, Goodwill of Dev, LRT, prices of Landed in BPP, collective effort by IOI, SPS & YTL...

Wish me luck, HAHAHA

This post has been edited by Cannot Tahan: Sep 20 2009, 11:02 PM

hi...everbody, actually those famous developer also got a lot of defect, just like my sister buy a 2 million bangalow with SPS, now the living hall's ceiling got water leak out, after few times of repair thier contractor still cant slove the problem even though their action very prompt.

Currently i stay in bandar puteri but i feel that my floor tile at whole living hall not proper fill with cement. cos everytime i knock the floor tile the sound very empty not solid at all.

i still remember few years ago when IOI launch the project (sorry cant remember the project name), 1st day i visit, there are few protester from bandar puteri klang ask me dont buy IOI's property. cos their property at bandar puteri klang facing big problem. (land settlement, waste water flow back from drain, sewerage pipe crack, after flush the toilet, the water will over flow) and the IOI totally cant slove the problem.

thats y i dont think famous developer their qulity 100% good. this is my personally experience. no offend.

This post has been edited by Alan Soo: Sep 21 2009, 01:21 AM