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Household [Home Appliances] Air-con

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leeyung
post Feb 7 2012, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Feb 7 2012, 04:31 PM)
Please do the math how you get RM100++ vs RM30++, you need to have proof of claim before putting the number. Even Panasonic say is 30%, but you get 70%.

Even at 30%, that is optimum level, it may not even hit that rate fro difference usage environment. I am a regular A/C user before and my bill does not even go RM 100++ for one A/C. And now with Inverter, the difference is only like rm 10+- per month.
http://panasonic.asia/ecoideas/ecoproducts...onditioner.html

    Reduces energy consumption by up to 30%*1.

    *1 Comparison of 1.5HP Inverter model with ECONAVI Dual Sensor ON and OFF (Cooling).

    <ECONAVI Dual Sensor ON Outside temperature: 35°C/24°C>
    Remote setting temperature: 25°C with Fan Speed (High)
    Vertical Airflow direction: Auto, Horizontal Airflow Direction: ECONAVI Mode
    Setting temperature goes up 1°C controlled by ECONAVI activity level
    <ECONAVI Dual Sensor OFF Outside temperature: 35°C/24°C>
    Remote setting temperature: 25°C with Fan Speed (High)
    Vertical Airflow direction: Auto, Horizontal Airflow Direction: Front
    Total power consumption amount are measured for 1 hour in stable condition
    At Panasonic Amenity Room (size:16.2m2)
    This is the maximum energy saving value, and the effect differs according to conditions in installation and usag


Added on February 7, 2012, 4:34 pmAnd the most if possible is 50% from Panasonic Malaysia, which need to set temperature to 25c, for lower temperature users saving will be much lesser.
Intelligent Inverter technology provides a high-precision method of maintaining the room set temperature by varying the rotation speed of the compressor; thus giving you energy savings of up to 50%.
*Comparison of 1.5HP Inverter model and 1.5HP Non-Inverter model

Outside temperature: 35ºC/24ºC
Remote setting temperature: 25ºC with Fan speed (High)
Vertical Airflow direction: Auto
Horizontal Airflow direction: Front

Total power consumption amount are measured for 8 hours from starting.
At Panasonic Amenity Room (size:16.6m²)
This is the maximum energy saving value, and the effect differs according to conditions in installation and usage.
*
+1 for the figures
ozak
post Feb 7 2012, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 7 2012, 04:26 PM)
Cause the non-inverter for salesman can earn better commission.

Once you installed and the rest you will facing the trouble on monthly bill for 1hp at Rm100++ or higher usage.

The inverter only take your bill around Rm30++ for fews monthly later your installed fee and extra cost for inverter to be reback already.
*
Mostly people even don't no 1hp aircon for what room size. So you don't expect people to know how to calculate the saving cost. Once they use it and see the bill, they will understand. That is experience user. smile.gif
cherroy
post Feb 7 2012, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 7 2012, 04:26 PM)
Cause the non-inverter for salesman can earn better commission.

Once you installed and the rest you will facing the trouble on monthly bill for 1hp at Rm100++ or higher usage.

The inverter only take your bill around Rm30++ for fews monthly later your installed fee and extra cost for inverter to be reback already.
*
woohoo, using inverter can result bill from RM100 to Rm30, this is first time I heard.

Even inverter air-cond manufacturers don't dare to claim it...



dishwasher
post Feb 7 2012, 05:06 PM

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I share a house with a few people, and lately I've been thinking of getting an aircond. My problem is that we share the electric bill. How much extra should I offer to pay if that's the case? General usage is maybe 6-8 hours a night, probably getting a 1.5hp inverter type.
weikee
post Feb 7 2012, 05:09 PM

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Some forumer say only RM 30 mah. Use that number loh.
dishwasher
post Feb 7 2012, 05:15 PM

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Like that I cry lor.
SUSkimsim
post Feb 7 2012, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 7 2012, 05:01 PM)
woohoo, using inverter can result bill from RM100 to Rm30, this is first time I heard.

Even inverter air-cond manufacturers don't dare to claim it...
*
Yes my house using all the inverter + untility at only <Rm200 per mths.

Cause from mon - fri is no ppl around.

But at night is switch on 2 Rooms x 1hp for inverter,
(total usage for 10 hrs x 30 day)

My living hall for 2.5hp inverter also is switch on from night time 3hrs x 5 days + sat & sun for operates from 9am - 12am.

Thanks


Added on February 7, 2012, 5:31 pm
QUOTE(dishwasher @ Feb 7 2012, 05:06 PM)
I share a house with a few people, and lately I've been thinking of getting an aircond. My problem is that we share the electric bill. How much extra should I offer to pay if that's the case? General usage is maybe 6-8 hours a night, probably getting a 1.5hp inverter type.
*
Like your case if using an inverter 1.5hp for 8 usage per days.

Just around Rm50 per mths of the room.
Sould like wroth than 1hp for non-inverter.


Added on February 7, 2012, 5:35 pmIf your electric meter is old type is using the rotary analog non-digital meter.

Once you switch on non-inverter and look at the meter speed is runing like aeroplane.

If you change to inverter to be reduce on normal speed.

This is very true to believed.

This post has been edited by kimsim: Feb 7 2012, 05:40 PM
cherroy
post Feb 7 2012, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 7 2012, 05:24 PM)
Yes my house using all the inverter + untility at only <Rm200 per mths.

Cause from mon - fri is no ppl around.

But at night is switch on 2 Rooms x 1hp for inverter,
(total usage for 10 hrs x 30 day)

My living hall for 2.5hp inverter also is switch on from night time 3hrs x 5 days + sat & sun for operates from 9am - 12am.

Thanks

Just around Rm50 per mths of the room.
Sould like wroth than 1hp for non-inverter.
*
By your analogy (RM100 to RM30), before you switched into inverter, your bill must be > RM500. whistling.gif

What so special about RM200?
An office with all non-inverter air-cond on 2 rooms x 1hp power for 9 hours + 1.5hp on room for 6 days a week for 3~4 hours average, also registered less than RM200.
SUSkimsim
post Feb 7 2012, 05:41 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 7 2012, 05:38 PM)
By your analogy (RM100 to RM30), before you switched into inverter, your bill must be > RM500.  whistling.gif

What so special about RM200?
An office with all non-inverter air-cond on 2 rooms x 1hp power for 9 hours + 1.5hp on room for 6 days a week for 3~4 hours average, also registered less than RM200.
*
Office is using Phase 3 current.

The cost should be much higher than your house usage.


Added on February 7, 2012, 5:45 pmYes my previous non-inverter 2hp panasonic just switch on 8hrs x 3 days per week of the months the bill is cost be more than Rm150 & still not include the rest.


Added on February 7, 2012, 5:48 pmDon't one to explain so much here,
Just you find out for your own smile.gif

This post has been edited by kimsim: Feb 7 2012, 05:48 PM
cherroy
post Feb 7 2012, 05:58 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 7 2012, 05:41 PM)
Office is using Phase 3 current.

The cost should be much higher than your house usage.


Added on February 7, 2012, 5:45 pmYes my previous non-inverter 2hp panasonic just switch on 8hrs x 3 days per months the bill is cost be more than Rm150 & still not include the rest.
*
LOL, office is using phase 3 current or not is totally unrelated, air-cond only using 1 phase only, disregard you have 3 phase or not.

Also, 3 phase or 1 phase, you paid the same KWhr.

LOL switch on 8 hour x days per month can cost Rm150? laugh.gif

Count down and up also cannot achieve.

2 HP air-cond how many KW needed.

Even assume the air-cond running non-stop , gave extra to you with (4KW)
4 KW x 8 x 3 = 96KWhr only.
Assume tariff at 0.40 cents

96KWhr x 0.40 cents = Rm38.40 only, this is figure that for compressor running non-stop in the entire operation period, (as non-inverter aid-cond compressor does stop once reaching desired temp)
where is the RM150.

Fyi, 1HP = 0.75KW.


Added on February 7, 2012, 5:59 pm
QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 7 2012, 05:41 PM)

Added on February 7, 2012, 5:48 pmDon't one to explain so much here,
Just you find out for your own smile.gif
*
Surely cannot explain so much, because it defy the physics of electricity. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by cherroy: Feb 7 2012, 05:59 PM
weikee
post Feb 7 2012, 06:06 PM

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Maybe use chiller lah.


Added on February 7, 2012, 6:07 pmFor easy calculation, i always use 1hp = 1kw, 2hp =2kw. This include losses and buffer.

This post has been edited by weikee: Feb 7 2012, 06:07 PM
SUSkimsim
post Feb 7 2012, 06:28 PM

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If your house can achieved on less than Rm200 per months of total bill an using the non-inverter aircon..
All to be switch on 8 hours x 30 days for 1hp x 3 + 2.5hp, just go and try the result is how much per month of fully non-inverter Aircon & set to 23C.


Added on February 7, 2012, 6:38 pmCause for normal inverter 1hp can suit for 3m x 4.5m x 3m high and set to 25c of 1fan or 2fan speed.

There is not give you warm or uncomfortable.
Even raining day still can used Aircon for whole night and set in 25c only.

Ha ha sound like I wanna promote the inverter Aircon here,

Just sharing my experience of usage per days of inverter advantage smile.gif

user posted image

user posted image




This post has been edited by kimsim: Feb 7 2012, 06:46 PM
weikee
post Feb 7 2012, 07:02 PM

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For rainy day, setting 25c is actually wasting energy. Why because outside temperature can be lower than 25c.

For much saving, get a ceiling ventilation, and switch it on during rainy day. This will suck in fresh and cooling air. Much more saving.


Added on February 7, 2012, 7:04 pmAlso my calculation per your reply earlier.

899 1hp
1268 1hp inverter
2199 2.5hp
2699 2.5hp

QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 7 2012, 06:28 PM)
If your house can achieved on less than Rm200 per months of total bill an using the non-inverter aircon..
All to be switch on 8 hours x 30 days for 1hp x 3 + 2.5hp, just go and try the result is how much per month of fully non-inverter Aircon & set to 23C.
*
So let say using http://www.jintexelectronics.com/ pricing, and say all compressor run all the time for easy calculation.


1HP Panasonic standard non inverter = 788
2.5HP Panasonic non inverter = 2199

1HP Panasonic Inverter = 1268
2.5HP Panasonic Inverter = 2699


For Non Inverter:
3x 1hp, + 1x 2.5hp
Total investment = 4563

Assume 1hp = 1kw, 2.5hp =2.5kw
Monthly running bill = (3kw x 8 x 30) + (2.5 x 8 x 3) = 720 + 60 = 780 Kw / month * 0.40 (using 40 cent per watt) = RM 312

If run for 24 months = 312 x 24 + 4563 = RM 12051.00




For Inverter
3x 1hp, + 1x 2.5hp
Total investment = 6503

Assume 1hp = 1kw, 2.5hp =2.5kw
Monthly running bill = (3kw x 8 x 30) + (2.5 x 8 x 3) = 720 + 60 = 780 Kw / month * 0.40 (using 40 cent per watt) = RM 312
(Say 30% saving based on Panasonic website) = RM 312 - 30% = 218.4

If run for 24 months = 218.4 x 24 + 6503 = RM 11744.6


So the saving for 24 months is 306.4

Here some of the things to consider
- Inverter piping are more expensive to install,
- Don't forget, this is as per claim by manufacture, at maximum saving. Which when you set temperature to 23c the saving may not be that much.


So the real saving is maybe after >30 months






This post has been edited by weikee: Feb 7 2012, 07:04 PM
SUSkimsim
post Feb 7 2012, 07:06 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Feb 7 2012, 07:02 PM)
For rainy day, setting 25c is actually wasting energy. Why because outside temperature can be lower than 25c.

For much saving, get a ceiling ventilation, and switch it on during rainy day. This will suck in fresh and cooling air. Much more saving.
*
Cause when you have using it all the time, if without Aircon I think the drame also badly.
Raining days using Aircon is very shock one smile.gif

Ha ha.
weikee
post Feb 7 2012, 07:15 PM

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I been using a/c for long, and ventilation too. Fresh air is still the best especially after rain.

A/C need humidifier to make the air humid, if not some people find the throat too dry, and my wife is one of them.


SUSkimsim
post Feb 7 2012, 07:42 PM

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Yes using Aircon by daily is suit for personal needed.
Cause some ppls only need stand fan.
Kiding
post Feb 7 2012, 08:44 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Feb 7 2012, 07:02 PM)

Assume 1hp = 1kw, 2.5hp =2.5kw
Monthly running bill = (3kw x 8 x 30) + (2.5 x 8 x 3) = 720 + 60 = 780 Kw / month * 0.40 (using 40 cent per watt) = RM 312

If run for 24 months = 312 x 24 + 4563 = RM 12051.00
For Inverter
3x 1hp, + 1x 2.5hp
Total investment = 6503

Assume 1hp = 1kw, 2.5hp =2.5kw 
Monthly running bill = (3kw x 8 x 30) + (2.5 x 8 x 3) = 720 + 60 = 780 Kw / month * 0.40 (using 40 cent per watt) = RM 312
(Say 30% saving based on Panasonic website) = RM 312 - 30% = 218.4

If run for 24 months = 218.4 x 24 + 6503 = RM 11744.6
So the saving for 24 months is 306.4

Here some of the things to consider
- Inverter piping are more expensive to install,
- Don't forget, this is as per claim by manufacture, at maximum saving. Which when you set temperature to 23c the saving may not be that much.


So the real saving is maybe after >30 months
*
I have 1HP non-inverter Panasonic aircond, use in 10' x 17' room, turn on 8 hours and set to 26 degree, it consumes around 5-6KW
I have another 1HP Hitachi inverter aircond, use in 12' x 18', turn on 8 hours and set to 25 degree, it consumes around 2-3KW

so my Hitachi inverter aircon can really save around 50% which fit Hitachi claim that able to save up to 56%.

Imaging I turn on aircond daily for 8 hours, which use 5.5KW x 365 (non-inverter) = 2007.5 for a year, by using inverter, it can save 50% which is 1003KW which translate to around 1003 x RM0.3 = RM301, hence I can save RM301 per year per aircond, within two years, my ROI is RM600 which offset the premium price, and the rest of the years, I'm keep saving money which translate to lower cost of ownership.


ccc8910
post Feb 7 2012, 08:52 PM

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Hi guys, I got a free air cond from lucky draw..now planning to install it, i m staying on 3rd floor apartment and need to drill hole for the hose...anyone can recommend nearby sunway area shop for installation? Normally around how much it charges if just installation? Thx
weikee
post Feb 7 2012, 11:00 PM

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QUOTE(Kiding @ Feb 7 2012, 08:44 PM)
I have 1HP non-inverter Panasonic aircond, use in 10' x 17' room, turn on 8 hours and set to 26 degree, it consumes around 5-6KW
I have another 1HP Hitachi inverter aircond, use in 12' x 18', turn on 8 hours and set to 25 degree, it consumes around 2-3KW

so my Hitachi inverter aircon can really save around 50% which fit Hitachi claim that able to save up to 56%.

Imaging I turn on aircond daily for 8 hours, which use 5.5KW x 365 (non-inverter) = 2007.5 for a year, by using inverter, it can save 50% which is 1003KW which translate to around 1003 x RM0.3 = RM301, hence I can save RM301 per year per aircond, within two years, my ROI is RM600 which offset the premium price, and the rest of the years, I'm keep saving money which translate to lower cost of ownership.
*
Something must be very wrong with your panasonic. I set temperature of 22 sometime 20 in my previous room a/c and it run like 10 hours a day, and my mom had an old National A/C. House with 1 medium size fridge, and one freezer for business. we pay like 180 to 200 a month. Now that i no longer leave they, they pay about 150+-

Look like your panasonic is running non stop.


SUSkimsim
post Feb 7 2012, 11:37 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Feb 7 2012, 07:02 PM)
For rainy day, setting 25c is actually wasting energy. Why because outside temperature can be lower than 25c.

For much saving, get a ceiling ventilation, and switch it on during rainy day. This will suck in fresh and cooling air. Much more saving.


Added on February 7, 2012, 7:04 pmAlso my calculation per your reply earlier.

899 1hp
1268 1hp inverter
2199 2.5hp
2699 2.5hp
So let say using http://www.jintexelectronics.com/ pricing, and say all compressor run all the time for easy calculation.
1HP Panasonic standard non inverter = 788
2.5HP Panasonic non inverter = 2199

1HP Panasonic Inverter = 1268
2.5HP Panasonic Inverter = 2699
For Non Inverter:
3x 1hp, + 1x 2.5hp
Total investment = 4563

Assume 1hp = 1kw, 2.5hp =2.5kw
Monthly running bill = (3kw x 8 x 30) + (2.5 x 8 x 3) = 720 + 60 = 780 Kw / month * 0.40 (using 40 cent per watt) = RM 312

If run for 24 months = 312 x 24 + 4563 = RM 12051.00
For Inverter
3x 1hp, + 1x 2.5hp
Total investment = 6503

Assume 1hp = 1kw, 2.5hp =2.5kw 
Monthly running bill = (3kw x 8 x 30) + (2.5 x 8 x 3) = 720 + 60 = 780 Kw / month * 0.40 (using 40 cent per watt) = RM 312
(Say 30% saving based on Panasonic website) = RM 312 - 30% = 218.4

If run for 24 months = 218.4 x 24 + 6503 = RM 11744.6
So the saving for 24 months is 306.4

Here some of the things to consider
- Inverter piping are more expensive to install,
- Don't forget, this is as per claim by manufacture, at maximum saving. Which when you set temperature to 23c the saving may not be that much.


So the real saving is maybe after >30 months
*
maybe you abit wrong calculate of inverter unit.

for normal 1hp = 640w = 0.64kw this is just only for maximum load for when starting on keep the room cooling.

after few minute ago the temperature is reached on your setting and reduce the maximum power to be Part Load = 180w = 0.18kw x 8 x 30 x 30 sen = Rm13 only for 1hp.

for 1hp
user posted image

for 2.5hp
user posted image

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