Indirectly connected to point 5. Honda parts are readily available locally and from Thailand, which are cheaper than the M6 where parts are imported from Japan. Admittingly, I do not have facts to back this point up. However, we can deduce that Honda parts which have to be replaced during servicing can usually be sourced locally or from Thailand which is cheaper as compared to Mazda where parts need to be imported in. Assuming that labor, ATF, gaskets, engine oils are similiarly priced for both marques, the price difference would probably come from items such as brake pads, air filters, spark plugs etc. In other words, the cost of the car + maintenance & resale value for a Mazda 6 will be higher as compared to the Accord.

btw, anyone noticed that the official service for Mazda is every 10,000km and the lube price is cheaper than Honda's Idemitsu oil?
Guess no one pointed that out......yet.....

it got most powerful engine but from magazine review, it's performance lost to mazda 6 less powerful engine. maybe due to m6 have impressive drag coefficient of 0.27 and lighter body weight.

I agree that parts for the Mazda6 can be more expensive because it's coming directly from Japan. But has it occured to anybody that original Made in Japan parts generally have better performance and last longer?

If you buy parts made in Thailand that cost half and have service life of half of what the equivalent MIJ part can give, maintenance cost would be the same right?

Oh, not forgetting that changing a part twice would mean incurring labour cost twice.

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Added on August 8, 2008, 10:13 am

Mind listing out typical service details of both cars? Would be interested to know. Thanks.

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Added on August 8, 2008, 10:29 am

If you talk about cabin space, I agree. But in terms of styling, I prefer the Mazda6.



This is a personal opinion. Some people prefer the exterior of the 7th Gen Accord better than the 8th Gen Accord. I actually like the front of the 8th Gen Accord.

But comparing 8th Gen Accord and 2nd Gen Mazda6, I prefer the exterior of the Mazda6. Again, personal taste.



Yes it is ample. More importantly, one needs to look at the whole package and not just the engine output.

If you look at the power to weight ratio, both have quite similar figures i.e. 86kW/tonne for the Mazda6 and 88kW/tonne for the Accord. But then this does not translate to better performance on the road. I believe this is why the Mazda6 had slightly better 0-100km/hr times. This is probably due to the shorter gearing ratios on the Mazda6 for better acceleration. However, the Accord has taller gearing for better top speed as evident from the speed differences at 1000rpm from the respective gearing.





Agreed.



Agreed.



Agreed. However, we're generalising the Mazda brand as having lower resale value. We don't know what will become for the 2nd Gen Mazda6. Don't think I can find any 2nd Gen Mazda6 as 2nd hand yet but taking the less popular 1st Gen Mazda6 2004 model, they are going for RM 85k. A similar Accord 2.0L 2004 model would go for RM 92k thereabouts. That's what we only see as face value. But like what you say assuming there's no problems, means that the current owner (or future 2nd hand owner) does not have to fork out extra money for expensive repairs. Overall picture would be different if the Accord has problems.



Please see my earlier reply.


This post has been edited by jchue73: Aug 8 2008, 10:29 AM

I don't agree with this point simply because both cars should have a service booklet that at certain mileage, a particular part should be replaced regardless of whether it's longer lasting or not. For example, at 10k - you probably need to replace the spark plugs, at 20 or 30k, you must perform the mandatory air-cond service. At 40k, comes a mandatory major servicing which includes replacing your brakes etc. Even if the Mazda part is longer lasting, it's still probably by 1 service later which is about 3 months.

Again, I talk about cabin space not styling.
I always believe that styling will usually run its course after a set period of time.

Again, I reasoned based on just its output, not its performance ratio or cd. A more powerful car with ample torque and power and speed when need. Truth be told, the difference between both cars are very minor and for most buyers, I don't think they would care too much about the difference. Still, on paper the Accord churns out more power and I have no reason to doubt their data.

It is a personal opinion but a rather fair accessment. Mazda 6 is a sports sedan, the Honda on the other hand, has become more Camry in nature. They appeal to different groups of people and its likely the Accord would probably appeal more to families. Sales data would indicate the Accord having higher sales than the Mazda 6 in Malaysia. Sadly, the factors that contribute to this is likely because of its high pricing by C&C and the almost non-existent advertising for the previous gen. I do hope Bermaz will do a better job this time round as I would like to see more Mazdas on the road myself.

My reasoning is based on (which is very much face value):

a) Previous generation Mazda 6 resale value as a track record from classifieds
b) Both cars are equal with no faults

I believe if the grounds were equal (both brands have an equal brand presence and sales network), the sales of the 2.5L Mazda 6 would likely be neck to neck with the 2.4L Accord if not better.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 8 2008, 11:54 AM

I agree with some of your points but this is what i disagree...just my frank opinion and my experience on both cars..no offense


3. Most powerful engine in its class
Power is ample for the Accord

You can't bluntly just say most powerful.. most importantly did the driver actually feel this car is the most powerful in its class? Correct in term of hp (180) vs (170)...BUT if you put both on the road without telling that person which car is more powerful, 100% sure that person will say Mazda 6. Mazda 6 is lighter than Accord because of the high tensile steel and importantly power to weight ratio for both cars is almost identical..Now come to the practical everyday drives..this is where torque comes in. This day ppl seldom emphasize on horsepower, it is torque that let you feel the acceleration and power..I can confidently tell you the difference between Accord and Mazda 6 when it comes to torque..if you read all the reviews, they have the same opinion too..

Accord was really lethargy on 1st and 2nd gear..I only felt the power when I reach the speed of 80km/h..As for Mazda 6, instantly i can feel the power the moment you step on the pedal..this is clear because of higher torque that kicks in much earlier than Accord at 226/4000rpm vs 222/4300rpm..
As for the 180hp on the Accord, it will only comes at 6500rpm, will Accord owners do that just to get the 180hp?? So its true, Mazda zoom-zoom spirit targets adults with young heart like me

Car manufacturer can tune their car higher or lower, thats why you can buy a chip tuning to override your current ride for more HP and torque. Sometime when car manufacturer facelift their car, they claim to have more powerful engine but what they did is only slight modification and tune the engine with higher hp and torque.

4. Aftermarket modification
Compared to the Mazda, aftermarket parts are more readily available to Honda for extra oomph!

Unless from Mazda, who needs more modification for this gorgeous Mazda 6?? In fact, I was cracking my head how else I can improve on the look of my Mazda 6..Putting more aftermarket on my Mazda 6 is like taking my sexy gorgeous girlfriend to a Chow Kit road hair saloon....The same goes to Accord, this car already look so complicated, putting more on it will only make it look more Ah Beng..


6. Better resale value
Buyers would still get a better return on investment upon selling their car. Compared to the M6, that extra savings range anything between 2 to 10k

How can you say better return on investment for a car? I don't look at car as an investment...all cars depreciate. I only invest in shares and properties. Investment means put money for profit..For a 175K car, why would i bother about the saving of less than 10K? At the end of the day when I sell my car, I;ve already enjoyed the car that suits me perfectly, a car that gives me pleasure of driving..I know many ppl loves Mazda but they will still buy a Honda or Toyota just because of saving somewhere 10K when they sell it...They rather drive a car that is not their first choice..Having said that..this latest Mazda 6 will definite fair much much better than the previous model...When the first gen came out, the price was much higher than Accord/Camry, now with much higher spec and much better design, it is selling close to the Accord/Camry...I will not be surprised if this Mazda 6 has same resale value or higher than the Accord/Camry...
IMO this is a case of penny wise pound foolish..

7. Lower total cost of ownership
Parts and services would most likely be cheaper for the Honda as compared to the Mazda over the entire stretch of ownership.

As Jchue rightly pointed out, all Mazda parts are made in Japan that will generally last much longer and more reliable than the local or Thai products....Save your time to SC...


This post has been edited by iceman08: Aug 8 2008, 12:12 PM

I agree. But the modifications need not just be on its styling. It could be on its performance and after market parts for Honda stuff are usually easier to come by. This point is negated if the buyer doesn't care for modification.

I always see the car as a form of investment because of the convenience it provides which also lead to matters that relate to profit
I also agree with you that a savings of 10k isn't anything to shout about and my data is only based on previous record. But track record based on the previous gen Mazda 6 would indicate that this value is far greater than 10k if you factor in the original high selling price. Again, we won't know how well the new M6 will perform. A car resale value is based on its demand and supply and its too early to tell. I suspect the new Mazda 6 to perform on par with the Accord/Camry going by its spec and design and if it the new model meets or beats the sales forecast set by Bermaz this year, it would be a good start.

See previous response to jchue73.

Now thats more like a good discussion & debate not like some comment about "Bawah pokok" service thing claimed by some forumers with half brain cells

Keep it up guys.


again I got scratch a little bit my M6 driver door this morning. 0.5mm diameter hole because I accidentally knock my house Pillar. Lucky the paint is still intact.

Generally speaking looking the the natural low rpm enginer of M6 + the car weight + the higher gear ratio and a slight better torque. I think a driver will feel the torque power is slightly better compared to Accord.

It is indeed the 7th Gen Accord look better for youngsters. The newest 8th is more geared toward aged Driver or giving more exclusive feeling. It seems to me they(Honda) is trying to tell the market they are ready to complete Against Europe cars like BMW, Merz.

Edit: As for the resale value I think it is more of the demand and Supply factor. Honda may have high demand, but lets not forget when u are selling someone else will be selling too. Take the 10-12yrs old car like Suzuki Vitara. It still retain a good average 22-25K resale value as compared to other cars @ the same age.

As for the Bermaz work on the local advertising, it seems they have not done any TV Ads yet. (or I am the one watching too much of Astro Channels that I didnt aware of). It is indeed many people do not know the latest M6 looks very much better than 1st Gen. I think Bermaz need more road shows in big shopping complex and so TV ads to explain the car's special features it has.

This post has been edited by billytong: Aug 8 2008, 01:47 PM

Will try to post Mazda service details when I get off work tonight...

What happen? I think if the paint still there you can get it touch up...
One note of caution while driving this 'dangerous' baby......I was rushing to meet a friend yesterday and its raining...little did i realize how fast i drive in the rain as if the road is dry. I just dont realized i was going so fast into a wet corner..only when i took the second fast corner, i thought what on earth m i doing.....The car was so steady going into corners and it just gives the driver so much confident...I m not encouraging you to do this, just be careful and don't listen to this 'naughty' fearless car...

This post has been edited by iceman08: Aug 8 2008, 02:58 PM

i still don't understand why honda accord never use projector headlamp?

most of the time is costs issue
projector units costs more than reflector based headlamp

honda accord isn't cheap bro... for that amount i don't think projector headlamp is a cost issue for highclass sedan ...

FYI , even waja has projector headlamp..

IMO is more of Honda/Toyota took us malaysians for a ride....despite overpricing it, strip down all the features...yet Malaysians still buy it. So why need to give us projector headlamp? They knew it all very well, Malaysians will buy Toyota/Honda...giving more features means lesser profit....ppl book the car before they even see how the car looks like let alone driving it...all for the sake of resale value... Fujimoto san and Honda are the one laughing all the way to the bank....

This post has been edited by iceman08: Aug 8 2008, 03:42 PM

like what iceman08 had mentioned, the T and H tag is a magnet for alot of car buyers, thus they can put an expensive price tag on the car and still cut corners on place which most wont bother about

oh btw... is japan version of Honda accord has projector headlamp?? or is it just malaysia version dun have?

This post has been edited by AiRBooM: Aug 8 2008, 03:58 PM

JDM's accord looks different

Japan usually have the Euro version..this local Accord is designed for the Americans as has the previous models....you can clearly see Honda really Americanized this version...Thats why i always say Honda and Toyota is looking more and more like the Koreans because Koreans are always very passionate about Americans...

You've got a good point there. But my point (and perhaps of iceman's too) is what if the part does not even last to see it's life throughout the recommended mandatory replacement? If something very small and insignificant like air filter would probably give you less engine performance but if something dangerous like brake pads failing? That would be very dangerous and cannot be quantitified by cost anymore.



Any styling will be passe after sometime. That's given. But I would think the first thing a new owner or prospect buyer should be getting is to be impressed by the car you're going to buy from your hard earned money. Don't want to be buying something that expensive that you'll not be impressed right?

The reason why I pointed space and styling differences is because a lot of people always confused between luxury and space and equate them the same, which they are not ! So personally while I think the legroom on the Accord is "luxurious" (=generous), I prefer styling on the Mazda6 interior.



I guess what I was trying to say is not everything on paper can be a good thing. A typical example is in one of the Top Gear episodes when they tested how fast can an F1 car go indoors. And when they got to time it with a normal sedan car, they found out the top speed that the F1 car was only like 10 or 20km/hr more than the sedan car. Unbelievable but what it goes to say is you can have all the power in the engine but it's useless if you cannot get all the power down to the ground.

Again, based on the Australian Wheels magazine shootout between the Accord, Mazda6, Mondeo and the Skoda, this is what they say about performance;





A lot of people call the Mazda6 a sports sedan. Don't know why... I just call it a sporty family sedan. On the contrary, I think Accord is trying to fit into the sporty family sedan category with the latest styling. If it wanted to try to be a Camry, their suspension would be lofty and soft all over which is not !



Well, the reason why Honda and Toyota is where it is is due to history and riding on this good history that they have is what sells their current models. Mazda on the other hand does not have history to brag about in Malaysia.

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Added on August 8, 2008, 5:12 pm

If I'm right, you can only use aftermarket parts after the 3 years warranty. Do it before and warranty will be void. Correct? So the other way of looking at it is it's a moot point to have many available aftermarket stuff for modifications etc. This only benefit owners when they buy their car with basic specs from the onset or owners with their car warranties already expired.

Secondly, if you're going with the 2.5L version of the Mazda6, there's hardly anything to add-on. Maybe perhaps an Ipod connector add-on. It's a family sedan and we're not going racing or anything. Skirting, spoilers, Bose speakers, bi-xenon AFS lights etc already bundled in the car together with 18" rims / tyres. If you want better features than that, then perhaps you're looking at the wrong cars. Audi / Lexus / BMW / Merc would be the right choice indication.

For me, the only thing "missing" and wanting items on the Mazda6 is the Bluetooth / Sat Nav / Reverse Camera.

Anyway, any idea on Honda's approach to warranty claims? By changing rims from say 17" to 18", would you void the waranty for the suspension? I saw one or two new Accord already fitted with aftermarket rims / tires. One thing I know for Mazda, anything to do with electronics modification and warranty is void. Unless of course the modifications / add-ons are done by Mazda sanctioned / panel workshops...



... Rule no. 1, cars are NEVER an investment ! It's a commodity and unfortunately a necessary one at that. The day you buy, the price of the car already drops.

This post has been edited by jchue73: Aug 8 2008, 05:12 PM

I do agree that H&T are pretty stripped down in the Malaysian market as compared to other parts of Asia, which is a pity because elsewhere, the same cars which we are talking about now have features that stand neck to neck.

For example, the new corolla which I have lacks the following features as compared to the same full spec Thai version.

- Leather seats
- Rain sensing wipers & Auto speed adjustable wipers
- HID Xenon headlights
- Cruise Control
- Rear curtains

Now it gets even worse compared to the China version where they get the addtional new Dual VVT-i engine. At all for the price of RM79k+ Ringgit!

So Mazda is actually doing the consumers a favor by offering more value for money. This will help them push more units out and raise brand awareness which is really what Mazda desperately needs here. If Mazda starts doing well and eat into their market share, then H&T will take note and start doing the same.