Jun 9 2008, 06:19 PM
QUOTE(gleko @ Jun 9 2008, 02:20 PM)
Hi darklight, thanks for the reply and welcome. Even small boned people can be good gainers, take a look at Lee Labrada, that guy has one of the best shapes ever, and small bone structure, yet was able to carry an impressive amount of muscle. I myself am very small boned though comparatively wide in the shoulders for my height. If that is you in the photo there I would say at the very least you are a decent gainer, even if you started off small. (I hate to disagree with something like this especially with out ever sighting you 
). Most real hardgainers never really continue working out. the problem these days is often that most of the information most trainees get is from steroid users who in five years go from nothing to the world championships. they also talk about muscle gains of ten twenty pounds a year. Something some of the guys I have trained could look forward to over a five year period. But then again I trained with a guy who went on to become Mr. Natural Australia and he could do almost anything and gain, while I would do the same workout and for legs the same weight and put on hardly anything. We even ate the same meals. His bench was way above mine though, never could match him there. Again if that is you in your signature then you really should think about giving competing a go at least once, especially i f your legs are a match for your upper body.
Not sure I agree with you on the overtraining, many guys overtrain for long periods of time and don't know it or notice it. Also to get the kind of results the big boys get one needs to sleep for way too long. Up to twelve hours a day for some of the steroid freaks. These days (I have been training for over twenty years) I like short and sweet, mainly because I found I could get the same results and sometimes better, than when training for long periods. I mainly follow the training and diet advice of Vince Gironda a man 50 years ahead of his time. Arnold was once advised to go and see him for training advice By Mr. Weider after he won the Mr. World and Arnie introduced himself and said "I am the current Mr. World " and Vince purportedly replied "Really? you look like a big fat F%&K to me." Vince would lose competitions because he was too cut, way before being cut was in, and pre-steroids and diuretics. To me, if I can get the same results from three sets as ten, then three is better
As for what my workout is, it depends on what I am trying to achieve and where I am in a cycle as I prefer to cycle my workouts and very rarely cycle longer than 6 weeks. At the moment I am trying something I have not done before and so far have been extremely impressed with the results. I am only doing two exercises, 5 days a week and cycling up to a new personal best every two weeks or so. I am trying to get my strength back to what is was some years ago. I have not been able to concentrate fully on my training the last few years and like lifting heavy. Family and work have taken precedence and I find myself with enough time to concentrate on my training again.
My goal is to get my deadlift up to 350lbs and my bench back up to at least 220-230.
You would be surprised at how well your biceps grow when you lift a heavy deadlift without straps or gloves.
I do 1 set of 5 reps at maximum,
1 set of five reps at 90%
and then as many sets as I can at 80% Usually at least five but sometimes in the early stage of the cycle up to ten sets.
early in the cycle I take only 30secs rest between sets. As the cycle gets heavier I take longer, but no longer than 90 secs.
When I get to the very end of the cycle I only do two sets, maximum set and 90% set.
I do the same for bench.
In the 6 weeks I have been doing this, I have gained nearly 4 kgs and lifted my weight on bench from 55lb dumbells ( I prefer dumbells because they are harder to do, but my gym only goes up to 60lb dumbells) to my set today of 185lbs (bench press 1 set by three) Tomorrow I will drop down to about 120 or 130lbs and cycle up to 195lbs by five reps I hope.
My training partner, who has never trained before, in his life, has just reached 250lbs for five reps on deadlift. He could barely lift the Olympic bar and two 35lb weights when he started.
He has also done two reps using 60lb dumbells. And multiple reps at 55lb dumbells.
the thing that has surprised me with this particular workout is my arms have continued to grow along with my legs and back yet have not been directly worked at all. But also for me, these are weights and muscle size i have had before, though some years ago. While it is easier to rebuild muscle than build for the first time, I am still impressed with my progress, because it usually takes me much longer to rebuild than this particular workout has done for me.
Not to mention I am now 45 as well.
Anyway hope that makes some sense
Biceps may grow some on heavy deadlifts but imo, the best exercise for biceps is direct bicep work. Video of my curling 135lbs, sorry for the bad angle, no one was there to take a vid for me:- ). Most real hardgainers never really continue working out. the problem these days is often that most of the information most trainees get is from steroid users who in five years go from nothing to the world championships. they also talk about muscle gains of ten twenty pounds a year. Something some of the guys I have trained could look forward to over a five year period. But then again I trained with a guy who went on to become Mr. Natural Australia and he could do almost anything and gain, while I would do the same workout and for legs the same weight and put on hardly anything. We even ate the same meals. His bench was way above mine though, never could match him there. Again if that is you in your signature then you really should think about giving competing a go at least once, especially i f your legs are a match for your upper body.Not sure I agree with you on the overtraining, many guys overtrain for long periods of time and don't know it or notice it. Also to get the kind of results the big boys get one needs to sleep for way too long. Up to twelve hours a day for some of the steroid freaks. These days (I have been training for over twenty years) I like short and sweet, mainly because I found I could get the same results and sometimes better, than when training for long periods. I mainly follow the training and diet advice of Vince Gironda a man 50 years ahead of his time. Arnold was once advised to go and see him for training advice By Mr. Weider after he won the Mr. World and Arnie introduced himself and said "I am the current Mr. World " and Vince purportedly replied "Really? you look like a big fat F%&K to me." Vince would lose competitions because he was too cut, way before being cut was in, and pre-steroids and diuretics. To me, if I can get the same results from three sets as ten, then three is better
As for what my workout is, it depends on what I am trying to achieve and where I am in a cycle as I prefer to cycle my workouts and very rarely cycle longer than 6 weeks. At the moment I am trying something I have not done before and so far have been extremely impressed with the results. I am only doing two exercises, 5 days a week and cycling up to a new personal best every two weeks or so. I am trying to get my strength back to what is was some years ago. I have not been able to concentrate fully on my training the last few years and like lifting heavy. Family and work have taken precedence and I find myself with enough time to concentrate on my training again.
My goal is to get my deadlift up to 350lbs and my bench back up to at least 220-230.
You would be surprised at how well your biceps grow when you lift a heavy deadlift without straps or gloves.
I do 1 set of 5 reps at maximum,
1 set of five reps at 90%
and then as many sets as I can at 80% Usually at least five but sometimes in the early stage of the cycle up to ten sets.
early in the cycle I take only 30secs rest between sets. As the cycle gets heavier I take longer, but no longer than 90 secs.
When I get to the very end of the cycle I only do two sets, maximum set and 90% set.
I do the same for bench.
In the 6 weeks I have been doing this, I have gained nearly 4 kgs and lifted my weight on bench from 55lb dumbells ( I prefer dumbells because they are harder to do, but my gym only goes up to 60lb dumbells) to my set today of 185lbs (bench press 1 set by three) Tomorrow I will drop down to about 120 or 130lbs and cycle up to 195lbs by five reps I hope.
My training partner, who has never trained before, in his life, has just reached 250lbs for five reps on deadlift. He could barely lift the Olympic bar and two 35lb weights when he started.
He has also done two reps using 60lb dumbells. And multiple reps at 55lb dumbells.
the thing that has surprised me with this particular workout is my arms have continued to grow along with my legs and back yet have not been directly worked at all. But also for me, these are weights and muscle size i have had before, though some years ago. While it is easier to rebuild muscle than build for the first time, I am still impressed with my progress, because it usually takes me much longer to rebuild than this particular workout has done for me.
Not to mention I am now 45 as well.
Anyway hope that makes some sense
I never believed in going hardcore raw for deadlifting. We're only as strong as our weakest link and if my grip is a limiting factor, straps are tools as a means to an end. After all my goals are bodybuilding, not powerlifting; plus the fact i fractured 2 of my wrists during a rollerblading accident as a kid doesn't help matters. But here's a deadlift workout of mine from an earlier post:-
QUOTE(darklight79 @ Apr 8 2008, 10:57 PM)
Traps, Legs 8/4/2008
Deadlifts
Warm up
135lb x 12
225lb x 8
225lb x 8
Work sets
295lb x 5
315lb x 5
405lb x 3
435lb x 1
445lb x 1
315lb x 5
315lb x 10
Hack squats
200lb x 12
200lb x 12
200lb x 12
200lb x 12
225lb x 12
225lb x 12
225lb x 12
Leg curls
4 plates x 12
4 plates x 12
4 plates x 12
4 plates x 12
4 plates x 12
4 plates x 12
Leg extensions
185lb x 12
185lb x 12
205lb x 15
205lb x 15
205lb x 15
205lb x 15
Seated calf raises
4 plates x 20
6 plates x 20
6 plates x 25
6 plates x 23
5 plates x 30
4 plates x 25
Endurance levels were through the roof! I didn't try setting much PR's here since my legs were fatigued from the deadlifting.
* Deadlifting was awesome. No pain at all ever since my lower back surgery but i'm not pushing to 500lb too fast. Seems deadlifting once every 12 days seems to work for me and i'll continue at that pace.
You have a point on overtraining there. If you see my earlier workouts, i used to be hitting 6-8 sets per exercise. Now i'm seeing much better gains with 4-5 sets per exercise. That's why I think high volume training for long periods of time is typically more important early on when you're not moving much weight or for older guys who still want to stay in great shape but aren't as strong as they used to be. There are a handful of genetic freak exceptions as always, but for the most part that's what I've noticed. Deadlifts
Warm up
135lb x 12
225lb x 8
225lb x 8
Work sets
295lb x 5
315lb x 5
405lb x 3
435lb x 1
445lb x 1
315lb x 5
315lb x 10
Hack squats
200lb x 12
200lb x 12
200lb x 12
200lb x 12
225lb x 12
225lb x 12
225lb x 12
Leg curls
4 plates x 12
4 plates x 12
4 plates x 12
4 plates x 12
4 plates x 12
4 plates x 12
Leg extensions
185lb x 12
185lb x 12
205lb x 15
205lb x 15
205lb x 15
205lb x 15
Seated calf raises
4 plates x 20
6 plates x 20
6 plates x 25
6 plates x 23
5 plates x 30
4 plates x 25
Endurance levels were through the roof! I didn't try setting much PR's here since my legs were fatigued from the deadlifting.
* Deadlifting was awesome. No pain at all ever since my lower back surgery but i'm not pushing to 500lb too fast. Seems deadlifting once every 12 days seems to work for me and i'll continue at that pace.
I deadlift every month, seems to work well for me. I do know that the more advanced a trainee gets, the more prone he will be to overtraining. I mentioned earlier that total volume is the key word here. Volume isn't just measured in the number of sets but the total amount of poundage lifted.
For example, 6 straight sets of 10 reps of 130lbs = 10 x 130 x 6 = 7800lbs.
Now as i got stronger, I'm pulling 210lbs for 10 reps for 4 sets = 210 x 10 x 4 = 8400lbs
In other words an intermediate lifter needs a lot more sets with higher reps to get through similar volume (total net poundage) that an advanced lifter can produce. So at a glance a noob might wonder how I'm growing off 4-5 work sets with an exercise as compared 6-8 sets of exercise which i used to do, but they're not taking into account that intensity and volume are inversely proportional.
It's good to hear you're making good progress with your current style of training at your age. You're not that old!
I'm also familiar with Vince Gironda, unfortunately he was way ahead of his time. One of his exercises i've always wanted to try are bench presses to the neck but for a person like me who loves training heavy, well... let's just say you'll understand why i've been putting it off. =) I seriously doubt i'll ever compete though. Apart from my stubborn insistence of my poor genetics , posing onstage with briefs just isn't my thing. I don't want to diet to the point of starvation, as long as i have a trim waist, look lean and have a 4 pack, it's good enough. Leg workout in a while. shanecross has requested a 340lbs Smith machine squat since i'm doing them for the first time, i'm gonna oblige him if i can find someone to take it for me.
This post has been edited by darklight79: Jun 9 2008, 06:26 PM
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