Thats because for the average trainee, (like most of the rest of us) it is way too much work. darklight is obviously not as hard a gainer as the average Joe, which puts him in about the top ten percent of trainees, if I did that much work I would have to sleep all day to recover.
My whole workout is often no longer than 15-20 mins and I get great results, for an old bloke that is

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Added on June 8, 2008, 2:42 pmDead right, most people as long as they deadlift and squat would never need to do ab work except perhaps just before a comp, and some not even then. Abs are like any other muscle group and if you train them they get bigger which then gives you a bigger waist. Lose tummy fat, see abs. When you squat or deadlift heavy your abs work very very hard, no need to add anything else.


This post has been edited by gleko: Jun 8 2008, 02:42 PM

Hi darklight, thanks for the reply and welcome. Even small boned people can be good gainers, take a look at Lee Labrada, that guy has one of the best shapes ever, and small bone structure, yet was able to carry an impressive amount of muscle. I myself am very small boned though comparatively wide in the shoulders for my height. If that is you in the photo there I would say at the very least you are a decent gainer, even if you started off small. (I hate to disagree with something like this especially with out ever sighting you ). Most real hardgainers never really continue working out. the problem these days is often that most of the information most trainees get is from steroid users who in five years go from nothing to the world championships. they also talk about muscle gains of ten twenty pounds a year. Something some of the guys I have trained could look forward to over a five year period. But then again I trained with a guy who went on to become Mr. Natural Australia and he could do almost anything and gain, while I would do the same workout and for legs the same weight and put on hardly anything. We even ate the same meals. His bench was way above mine though, never could match him there. Again if that is you in your signature then you really should think about giving competing a go at least once, especially i f your legs are a match for your upper body.



Not sure I agree with you on the overtraining, many guys overtrain for long periods of time and don't know it or notice it. Also to get the kind of results the big boys get one needs to sleep for way too long. Up to twelve hours a day for some of the steroid freaks. These days (I have been training for over twenty years) I like short and sweet, mainly because I found I could get the same results and sometimes better, than when training for long periods. I mainly follow the training and diet advice of Vince Gironda a man 50 years ahead of his time. Arnold was once advised to go and see him for training advice By Mr. Weider after he won the Mr. World and Arnie introduced himself and said "I am the current Mr. World " and Vince purportedly replied "Really? you look like a big fat F%&K to me." Vince would lose competitions because he was too cut, way before being cut was in, and pre-steroids and diuretics. To me, if I can get the same results from three sets as ten, then three is better

As for what my workout is, it depends on what I am trying to achieve and where I am in a cycle as I prefer to cycle my workouts and very rarely cycle longer than 6 weeks. At the moment I am trying something I have not done before and so far have been extremely impressed with the results. I am only doing two exercises, 5 days a week and cycling up to a new personal best every two weeks or so. I am trying to get my strength back to what is was some years ago. I have not been able to concentrate fully on my training the last few years and like lifting heavy. Family and work have taken precedence and I find myself with enough time to concentrate on my training again.
My goal is to get my deadlift up to 350lbs and my bench back up to at least 220-230.
You would be surprised at how well your biceps grow when you lift a heavy deadlift without straps or gloves.

I do 1 set of 5 reps at maximum,
1 set of five reps at 90%
and then as many sets as I can at 80% Usually at least five but sometimes in the early stage of the cycle up to ten sets.
early in the cycle I take only 30secs rest between sets. As the cycle gets heavier I take longer, but no longer than 90 secs.
When I get to the very end of the cycle I only do two sets, maximum set and 90% set.

I do the same for bench.

In the 6 weeks I have been doing this, I have gained nearly 4 kgs and lifted my weight on bench from 55lb dumbells ( I prefer dumbells because they are harder to do, but my gym only goes up to 60lb dumbells) to my set today of 185lbs (bench press 1 set by three) Tomorrow I will drop down to about 120 or 130lbs and cycle up to 195lbs by five reps I hope.

My training partner, who has never trained before, in his life, has just reached 250lbs for five reps on deadlift. He could barely lift the Olympic bar and two 35lb weights when he started.
He has also done two reps using 60lb dumbells. And multiple reps at 55lb dumbells.

the thing that has surprised me with this particular workout is my arms have continued to grow along with my legs and back yet have not been directly worked at all. But also for me, these are weights and muscle size i have had before, though some years ago. While it is easier to rebuild muscle than build for the first time, I am still impressed with my progress, because it usually takes me much longer to rebuild than this particular workout has done for me.
Not to mention I am now 45 as well.

Anyway hope that makes some sense

Yes definitely bad angle. ;-0




I agree for sure, however for me, the focus has changed in part due to my age and also due to the fact that women dont look that much in my direction anymore AHhahahaha
I use to use straps, and belts, which I dont now, and the reason in part is because I want the extra work on the abs etc. Even though I have done heavy long long time ago, I think you still do heavier than I did, My best bench ever was 300 for one rep and it nearly killed me, I will be very very happy if I can get up to 250 again, sheeit I will be happy to get back to 220 at this rate. I have some shoulder trouble due to an accident on the smith machine while pressing, I tried to reshuffle during a bench and twisted my shoulder pretty bad, I have never really lifted too heavy since, but hope sitll shines



Again I agree, volume is also weight moved over time which was the original overload principle that is sometimes forgotten, I time all the breaks between sets. I am not sure what my top deadlift was but pretty sure it was not much over 400 for ten. I am going for that eventually again too.




I use to deadlift once a month too, worked great for me for quite a while, the workout I am on now is me trying to get back some strength before going onto other workouts, I want to get over 300 deadlift at least, and will get back over 200 bench in the next month or so.


Yes yes and yes




I hear ya, I would never have gotten onto a stage I think even if I could have built the body for it, though the dream was there for a few years. I have done plenty of neck presses and believe me, they are heavy, really heavy, my weights drop right down on doing them. I also love sissy squats as well, but they are very painful when done properly, it took me a couple of years to figure out how to do them from his description in Iron Magazine, but two mins from his description in his own magazine, which I got several years ago. Vince was a brilliant trainer, his ten of ten workout is crippling. I never actually finished one fully, though I have done lots of 8x8 and 6x6 as well as 15x4 which is also a killer.



I use to love the hack squat too, though never got that heavy either.
No decent gyms down here in penang