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News Ukraine army launches large assault on SE Ukraine, Probable probing attack on Russian lines

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bengm2019
post Jun 19 2023, 03:09 PM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jun 19 2023, 01:13 PM)
i am just very curious how STATIC DEFENSE (example, trenches, pillboxes, fox holes) will perform in today modern warfare.

WW2 where the imminent combat range is 500m to 1km? snipers add another 1-2km?
artillery and mortars serve as area suppression than actually accurate fire and air bombing + ground coordination is slow.

unlike WW2, imminent combat range now is 500m to 5km? auto grenade launcher, FPV drones, bomber drones, ATGMs, mobile short range rocket fire, recon drones to support mortar and artillery fire. instant fire correction method. air burst munitions as well as thermobaric warhead.
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Still works very well, except that pillbox (esp. concrete ones) is no longer done these days. Its replaced by sand bags instead.

Artillery and motar been there all along even during WW2....


Gadget_Freak
post Jun 19 2023, 03:09 PM

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damn brutal the latest combat video where ukrainians tembak few ruski in the trench..close up like counter strike
bengm2019
post Jun 19 2023, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(Gadget_Freak @ Jun 19 2023, 03:09 PM)
damn brutal the latest combat video where ukrainians tembak few ruski in the trench..close up like counter strike
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War is hell.....
oe_kintaro
post Jun 19 2023, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(bengm2019 @ Jun 19 2023, 02:56 PM)
I wonder why Russia didn't start doing this earlier....
I wonder why. Maybe superbrains Putin never wargamed for a campaign that lasted more than 3 days or 3 weeks and thought he could get away with a slap on his wrist, like when he invaded Georgia or Crimea and so never prepared his war industrial complex accordingly.


QUOTE
Jsut to let you know that they have built over 50,000 T54/55. They also have over 20,000 T72....

Imagine restoring just 10,000 of them, strap them with 6 tons of explosive each and drive them toward Ukraine positions.....

Would be an incredible sight.
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This is not C&C red alert. Stuff don't magically appear. Even a highly over resourced army like US has trouble keeping their war machine in fighting shape. When you factor in storage conditions, age & wear and tear and endemic corruption, there's no way all those 50k T55 or 20k T72 are anywhere near combat usable.
But certainly a useful percentage can be cannibalized provided they had the industrial capacity and manpower.
To put things in context, Russia has gigantic borders and land mass, with an economy the size of Italy and a population less than Bangladesh. The one thing going for them is a largish slave-like population that is highly tolerant of abuse and deprivation of human rights that will never rise up against their top leader, so they can last longer than a democracy put in a similar situation.
However, they *don't* have unlimited manpower or industrial capacity even if they pretend they do. Sooner or later they will hit wall called basic war arithmetic.
oe_kintaro
post Jun 19 2023, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(bengm2019 @ Jun 19 2023, 03:04 PM)
If you use your brains to think a little, you will realise that most of the penetrations are on sides/rear.... This happens when the tank is advancing in enemy territory.

When you are defending, your front is facing enemy and waiting for enemy to come.... its different from when you are attacking. ATGMs are less effective when hitting frontal armour.
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You don't bodoh me la. I saw so many videos of grenades and thermite explosives dropped down open hatches of abandoned T72. A full loaded carousel would have exploded super high anyway. Those tanks were probably abandoned due to mobility kills and had exhausted their munitions too. Plus you can look up at how the latest vintages of Russian ammo are being sent and stored at the fronts and hubs. No wonder they don't even dare to carry a full load now.
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 19 2023, 03:50 PM

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After one week: "We need another week"
After one week: "We need another week"
After one week: "We need another week"
.........
oe_kintaro
post Jun 19 2023, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 19 2023, 03:50 PM)

After one week: "We need another week"
After one week: "We need another week"
After one week: "We need another week"
.........
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Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
Still better than 3 days special operation.
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 19 2023, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Jun 19 2023, 03:57 PM)
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
Still better than 3 days special operation.
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U mean like the one this guy said?


oe_kintaro
post Jun 19 2023, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 19 2023, 04:00 PM)
U mean like the one this guy said?

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I think a lot of smart people were fooled by the Russian paper tiger. But smart people also know when they are wrong and will reconsider their opinions in light of new facts.
marfccy
post Jun 19 2023, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jun 19 2023, 01:13 PM)
i am just very curious how STATIC DEFENSE (example, trenches, pillboxes, fox holes) will perform in today modern warfare.

WW2 where the imminent combat range is 500m to 1km? snipers add another 1-2km?
artillery and mortars serve as area suppression than actually accurate fire and air bombing + ground coordination is slow.

unlike WW2, imminent combat range now is 500m to 5km? auto grenade launcher, FPV drones, bomber drones, ATGMs, mobile short range rocket fire, recon drones to support mortar and artillery fire. instant fire correction method. air burst munitions as well as thermobaric warhead.
*
still extremely formidable, put yourself in the shoes of the soldiers who are tasked to assault these. there are so many levels of disadvantages via infantry that makes you question how to do it in first place

why else you see both UA/RU sides progress are always minute especially when going on offensives? cause both sides employ same tactic of deep defense
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 19 2023, 04:28 PM

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Pro-Russian militia group examines a knocked out Ukrainian AMX-10RC. Interestingly they recovered the manual for the vehicle.


Einjahr
post Jun 19 2023, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 19 2023, 02:46 PM)
History Legend new content just dropped

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at least he is more balanced in reporting what is happening than you ever can
empyreal
post Jun 19 2023, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Jun 19 2023, 04:06 PM)
I think a lot of smart people were fooled by the Russian paper tiger. But smart people also know when they are wrong and will reconsider their opinions in light of new facts.
*
Or at least some have, russians pundits notwithstanding


Krv23490
post Jun 19 2023, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(St0rmFury @ Jun 19 2023, 05:20 PM)


One of the most engaging CQB footage I've seen.

Last guy straight away lights out GG no respawn.
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this is intense
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 19 2023, 06:25 PM

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Oryx shutting down


bengm2019
post Jun 19 2023, 06:29 PM

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QUOTE(Krv23490 @ Jun 19 2023, 05:55 PM)
this is intense
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Don't look real to me... Looks more like those early stage Ukraine videos....
chaosneo
post Jun 19 2023, 06:31 PM

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oh no...
they are the most reliable sources in documenting equipment losses...

QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 19 2023, 06:25 PM)
Oryx shutting down

*
bengm2019
post Jun 19 2023, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 19 2023, 12:55 PM)
That's another week of Russians digging and bringing in more people though. Ukraine is the one need to take initiative.
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Nothing much to dig... Ukraine hardly advance.... They yet to get anywhere near the 1st defensive line.....
bengm2019
post Jun 19 2023, 06:33 PM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jun 19 2023, 06:31 PM)
oh no...
they are the most reliable sources in documenting equipment losses...
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Reliable?? Lol..... It's all bs..
Justin.Loong
post Jun 19 2023, 07:12 PM

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QUOTE(Gadget_Freak @ Jun 19 2023, 03:09 PM)
damn brutal the latest combat video where ukrainians tembak few ruski in the trench..close up like counter strike
*
QUOTE(Krv23490 @ Jun 19 2023, 05:55 PM)
this is intense
*
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