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News Ukraine army launches large assault on SE Ukraine, Probable probing attack on Russian lines

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marfccy
post Jun 9 2023, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(takbodoh722 @ Jun 5 2023, 04:59 PM)
RuAF useless though. mainly arty fight.
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cheaper to use arty than sortie million dollar planes

This post has been edited by marfccy: Jun 9 2023, 02:27 PM
marfccy
post Jun 11 2023, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(Azury36 @ Jun 11 2023, 01:20 AM)
I do feel Russia just use 20% of their military might
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only in manpower, not in the weapons systems used

theyre using quite a significant amount of armored vehicles, planes and missiles at disposal
marfccy
post Jun 11 2023, 02:29 AM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jun 11 2023, 01:36 AM)
if we are referring to people, then yes, and not even 20%. russia has a large population that it can draft on but not sure what level where people will feel it violates the social contract between putin and the people.

edit
the one thing that made me curious is why they don't want to commit their air power in the first 12 months of the war, they number of bombers and planes could have overwhelm Ukraine air defense before it was buff up.
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because the Russians knew how potent is the S300 systems Ukraine had in the first place. its not that they dont want to, but cannot do it due to that threat

even for lets say US doctrine which operates mainly on air superiority, if someone introduced a known potent AD system even they will take caution in approaching. its just logical
marfccy
post Jun 15 2023, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 15 2023, 11:13 PM)
Bizarrely, Ukraine is also look intent on recapturing Bakhmut
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Bakhmut still not fully fortified, thats why Ukrainians are still attacking it

this way can keep the troops there occupied considering Russians are limited by manpower
marfccy
post Jun 15 2023, 11:50 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 15 2023, 11:33 PM)
I still don't understand why pipul put so much stock in small-scale destruction by HIMARS when Russian strategic and tactical air units are bombing Ukraine literally on a daily basis nowadays?

And pls don't tell me u believe in those 'Patriot shot down 99%' nonsense
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wunderwaffe, nuff said


marfccy
post Jun 19 2023, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jun 19 2023, 01:13 PM)
i am just very curious how STATIC DEFENSE (example, trenches, pillboxes, fox holes) will perform in today modern warfare.

WW2 where the imminent combat range is 500m to 1km? snipers add another 1-2km?
artillery and mortars serve as area suppression than actually accurate fire and air bombing + ground coordination is slow.

unlike WW2, imminent combat range now is 500m to 5km? auto grenade launcher, FPV drones, bomber drones, ATGMs, mobile short range rocket fire, recon drones to support mortar and artillery fire. instant fire correction method. air burst munitions as well as thermobaric warhead.
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still extremely formidable, put yourself in the shoes of the soldiers who are tasked to assault these. there are so many levels of disadvantages via infantry that makes you question how to do it in first place

why else you see both UA/RU sides progress are always minute especially when going on offensives? cause both sides employ same tactic of deep defense
marfccy
post Jun 19 2023, 08:22 PM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jun 19 2023, 08:16 PM)
i am like 50% yes 50% no, cause a lot of weapons doesn't exist in WW2.
especially FPV drones, soldiers in trench is like target 🎯 practice for these.
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yes but the thing people kept forgetting is that there are countermeasures for these drones already widely in use

EW exists for a reason
marfccy
post Jun 21 2023, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(bengm2019 @ Jun 21 2023, 10:21 AM)
Seriously, I don't know why they are so surprised by it.... Its like they have no idea what apaches/cobras were built to do.....
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the joke is that theyre shooting themselves in the feet hard after they have been parading in media that russian equipment are pieces of junk since soviet era and barely functioning, being held on by the spirit of Stalin or something

but it makes the opposition more of a joke that they as NATO's best trained army kenot even defeat the "incompetent" "ammo-less" "morale starved" russian army rolleyes.gif
marfccy
post Jun 21 2023, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jun 21 2023, 11:11 AM)

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nice, must be fun hiding under a rock for past 1yr despite all the west media saying this and that about russian army doh.gif

kek okay ill bite. so 2 KA-52 downed/damaged, then what? russian army to fold over and return to russia? and if they were effective how come they havent pushed russian back during counteroffensives as planned? they wanted Crimea by summer as well. cant really take Crimea without pushing all the way to Azov sea
marfccy
post Jun 21 2023, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jun 21 2023, 11:34 AM)
i see you as a far more reasonable person for discussion even though you support the opposing side so no need to go all defensive about it.
while in the short term i don't think UA has able to solve the KA-52 8KM+ ATGM capabilities without bringing in some mobile AD cause Manpads just can't reach that far.
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there is no support of this team that team like some sports game. my very stance from beginning is this is a foolish war that Ukraine & NATO has provoked Russia into. it serves no purpose on both sides than to aggravate situations

UA cant solve the mobile AD issue cause RU has been degrading their capability months ago. thats why the KA52 are having such free reign now.

QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jun 21 2023, 11:42 AM)
unlike the Kharkiv / Kherson offensive,
russians have been able to build up layers of defensive lines as you also said i think, these lines of defense are somewhat functional too.

anyone who expect this to be a rapid takeover is being ignorant whichever side they are part of.

i would say effective is because even with a few month of training, they are undertaking a combined arms offensive action that i am sure any military experts can say it is not easy, ESPECIALLY, without air cover.  it takes a lot of willpower, discipline, and determination to actually perform offensive action under enemy fire, artillery, mortars and navigating minefield.

can you quote to me who exactly said "wanted Crimea by summer" cause i want to LOL at that person too.
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ask budanov then
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/0...boss-interview/
marfccy
post Jun 21 2023, 12:07 PM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jun 21 2023, 12:02 PM)
well Budanov optimism deserve a LOL then.
also i don't think Ukraine can take back Crimea by force as i believe this war will end in a meeting room with concessions given depending on the outcome of the battlefield.

the article quoted here:
Budanov’s forecast for this year is that Russia will focus on occupying more territory in the eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions. A renewed offensive from its forces stationed north of Ukraine, in Belarus, is unlikely, he said, and just an attempt to distract and divide Kyiv’s troops. He also said that “we must do everything to ensure that Crimea returns home by summer.”


i do agree that this is a foolish war but i don't agree who started provoking it first and i do agree NATO not exactly blameless.

yes, i think UA is having trouble with the KA-52 and i am not even sure if those mobile AD can hit targets like hover above treeline many kilometers away blurring between radar ping and landscape.
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yeah so best thing now is to negotiate a ceasefire and peace treaty since ed went down deep this rabbit hole. dont go later to the route of unconditional, which sucks balls

Crimea is impossible to retake ed and considered a lost cause. RU will not let go of Crimea too as too strategic for their Black Sea Fleet
marfccy
post Jun 21 2023, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(Selectt @ Jun 21 2023, 12:08 PM)
US keep saying it is unprovoked war. lol dai sohai believe them
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as usual, propaganda runs stronk (even for both sides)

its to be expected already by now, information warfare is very powerful
marfccy
post Jun 22 2023, 05:28 PM

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QUOTE(kiasunkiasi @ Jun 22 2023, 01:57 PM)
personally I doubt F16 will help much for Ukraine... some of the functions / features / weapon range will possibly be reduced or crippled as Murika is cautious Ukraine will be attacking Russia targets thus escalating conflict further
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add it to the list of "wunderwaffe" that NATO has promised to be gamechanger

Bayraktar
Stingers
HIMARS
Javelins
NLAW
M113
Bradley
MRAP
M777 & Excalibur
Starstreak
Brimstone
Patriot/NASAMS
Leopard 2/Challenger 2/M1 Abrams
Storm Shadow
marfccy
post Jul 3 2023, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(countingcrows @ Jul 2 2023, 11:48 PM)
Ukrainian radar station in Kharkiv.
Everyone seems to be using "netting" of some sort.


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i dont know why they making such a big fuss about these netting or "cope cages"

most of the time these contraptions seek to reduce damage, not prevent the drone strikes. if its working as intended, why the hoohah?
marfccy
post Jul 4 2023, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jul 4 2023, 08:35 PM)
Wait, are you seriously trying to wage a war of attrition with Russia of all countries?

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i was reading soviet doctrine and srzly wow, the level of strategy inside...

you really dont want to mess with russia if they improved the soviet doctrine even further sweat.gif
marfccy
post Jul 4 2023, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(chaosneo @ Jul 4 2023, 09:33 PM)
actually their doctrine is quite good, even the BTG doctrine is workable, the problem or maybe blessing is the training of the ground troops and/or the top down policy didn't allow their doctrine to be full utilized without effective results.

but yes, they are adapting quite fast.
in fact they even adapted the defensive strategy used by Ukrainian at Vulhedar against the counter offensive.
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this is a common misconception that soviet doctrine doesnt adapt sweat.gif

read the doctrine thoroughly, nowhere it said to not adapt. in fact like all militaries, the commander have to adapt and improvise to achieve their objective. the only difference is soviet doctrine are more lenient on casualties than NATO's doctrine (obviously due to sheer amount of Soviet troops back then vs NATO's), due to their POV on how warfare is conducted where loss of lives are inevitable as long able to better negotiate the battlefield.

their doctrine revolve around committing an assault force to its target and constantly testing the flanks and weak spots, once breakthrough pushing in deep to follow up with another force to target rear and continue pursuit of retreating oppositions without letting them breathe, disregarding own casualties. this is similar to blitzkrieg but an even larger combined arms level way beyond what the world has seen post WW2.

those that keep spouting this nonsense are completely fed with hogwash from western propaganda
marfccy
post Jul 4 2023, 11:38 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Jul 4 2023, 11:25 PM)
In terms of military strategy, it would be foolish to dismiss the traditions descended from the likes of Suvorov.
Keep in mind the current Russian arm forces =/= Soviet. The current Russian armed forces are objectively inferior not because of doctrine, but because of execution. They can't execute to plan because of a more fundamental weakness in organisational culture and endemic corruption compared to the Ukrainians. They're adapting, just not as fast as the Ukrainians. There is an armed force using the best bits of soviet doctrine, but it's not Russian.
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this is also another misconception based on western propaganda on russia's military performance. pointless to debate on this, as how many was done long ago and lets not go into there again

youre already making the conclusion in advance then build reasoning around it when in fact its more akin to schrodinger logic, it can be A or B or both. nobody truly knows

marfccy
post Jul 6 2023, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(countingcrows @ Jul 6 2023, 11:10 PM)
Anti-Drone Gun


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that looks way bigger compared to the one in patrick lancaster's vid


marfccy
post Jul 11 2023, 12:59 PM

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hmm.gif

QUOTE
Seeing that the tank heavy concept was failing the Ukrainians switched to a much older and more bloody technic:

In these conditions, our guys, together with Ukrainian commanders, developed tactics of “mosquito” promotion: continuous attacks of Russian positions by small tactical groups of Ukrainian infantry. The Russians, who are much more sensitive to losses in manpower, try to prevent close (“contact”) battles and retreat when Ukrainians reach their trenches, allowing artillery to destroy the enemy. This usually succeeds: Ukrainians die or retreat. But this tactic has a positive effect. Several such attacks almost completely destroy the Russian position, most often with their own fire, after which the Russians are forced to retreat to a new line, where this tactic is repeated. That’s how in two weeks the Russians were pushed back three miles from Makarov’s strategically important position. And this tactic is constantly improving. Our side believe that, at the continuing pace of such progress, in two weeks Ukrainians will be able to overcome the Russian support band and start storming their main line of defense, while maintaining the offensive potential of their strongest brigades. Perhaps that’s what General Milley meant yesterday about the ten weeks of the Ukrainian offensive.

This tactical technique has another important effect. Russians are forced to spend more artillery shells to repel such “mosquito” attacks, the stocks of which they replenish more slowly than they spend. And in two weeks of such battles, they may well approach the depletion of their stocks. Of course, this leads to great losses of Ukrainians but, as I said at the beginning, they are not sensitive to the death of their soldiers. In addition, advances however small are a better justification for their death than unsuccessful attacks. And here, we must admit that the Russians today are much closer to the armies of Western countries than the Ukrainians are in this respect: the Russians take care of their soldiers ...

marfccy
post Jul 12 2023, 12:00 PM

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QUOTE(WinkyJr @ Jul 12 2023, 10:17 AM)
Why is it so hard for them to grant UA Nato membership?  biggrin.gif
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NATO themselves stated a country in conflict cannot be granted membership icon_idea.gif

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