Think you’re one of dozens who asked the same question: why not maximise earning and shorten his ‘suffering’ since his salary is rather low. So far no direct answer

I get what you mean and agree: there's definitely a balance to everything in the FIRE journey.

But technically speaking, at some point, "living below your means" isn’t just good advice. It’s a mathematical necessity if you want any kind of retirement later on (early or otherwise).

Because the opposite, "living at or above your means", basically means spending more than you earn on annual or a set periodic basis. That definitely leads to debt piling up over time, and eventually working till the very end... just hoping the end comes before the bankruptcy does.

Delayed gratification is what we all should aim for, with healthy moderation during both the saving and spending phases.

you forgot
his salary is low
yet he set his target so near, short of time.

how to achieve it if not ikat perut tight tight?

if for me in his shoe
i want to enjoy the journey along the way
i rather go normal , what is the rush for?
then no need ikat perut so much lah.

this is like a 5 year U course
you want to finish it in 3 or 4 years
you slog and slog no day no nights lor!

worth it meh?

Depend what you want to look for. Original FIRE is getting there as soon as you can. That is what I follow.
If you want FAT FIRE and as fast as possible no choice.
If you want to take your time, it is not FIRE as likely normal retirement. FIRE means retire in your 30s or late 40s max.
If retire at 50 sorry la. That is not my definition of FIRE. I am already LEAN FIRE. I am aiming for FAT FIRE.

The point are 5 things
1. Get to the finish line as soon as possible. Do not enjoy the journey. Enjoy the very long finish line with the time you bought. Imagine retiring at 30+ FAT FIRE. You got a very long road ahead while your peers all slough and work like a donkey and you just be a unemployed person. Time kena owned by the company and not your own time. I don't want my time to be owned by anyone. If you live the life without it being own by anyone you will love it. I lived that life before.
2. Get FAT FIRE. Able to go anywhere, eat anything and move to any country. Total freedom. Don't like country A, pack up your bags and move. Not restricted by your money or destination. Be a digital nomad.
3. Support my biohacking to live a long healthy life and age gracefully. No meds at 60-70 years old.
4. Imagine no need to work and money continue to come in.
5. Imagine getting 10% raise a year automatically without any KPIs to meet. Which company can increase your pay by 10%p.a into perpetuity.

Many have done it, can be done. Just be patient. Many cannot tahan the hard life so try to find excuse by having so many deviations.

Part of it.

Yup can't do that. She will freak out and leave me if I suddenly do that. She told me she don't want guys who spend like that 😂

My mum will also me if I were to spend like that.


Depends on what you want lo. I would rather retire at 45 Vs 47 or 50 just because I spend more. But that's me. If can I want 40. But have to be super conservativem

Very worth it if you have live the FIRE life before. I have done it, I can do it again on larger scale.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 4 2025, 03:26 PM

Things might be different from what he says publicly,... just rumours heard,...

OK, will take the best practices and leave the others out. Maybe minor-frugalism could work for me in some ways.
But I would definitely not torture myself the same way as you do en route to FIRE

Something to ponder on…the Table below. (Source from YT video: [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7sXA8Cn9cU] don't wanna embed the video in here because somehow my past videos embedded in here got removed

PS: Don't ask me about the formulas and technicalities on how the table is derived

But yes, I do support bro Ramjade. Still, I do agree everyone is entitled to live their own ways as long one is happy.

This post has been edited by OPT: Nov 4 2025, 05:13 PM


Attached thumbnail(s)

You need money to make money. That's the harsh reality. So unless you can earn a lot, you have to start off with savings. The more you can save, the more you can invest. It will reach a time when you can ease off your savings and let the investment do the heavy lifting. Until then you have only your salary and your savings to feed the money making making machine. When you reach the stage where investment can start to make money, you can continue doing what you are doing to speed up the process as now you got 2 sources of income of 1 or ease off and depend on one source of income (your investment to do the heavy lifting). I won't ease off until I reach the finish line as faster I get to the finish liner the better.

The table is from https://investmentmoats.com/
He is a Singaporean blogger who have achieved FIRE but choose to continue working. He loves writing very long complicated blog post. He used to be dividend investor and pivot to ETF and recommend people to go the safe withdrawal rate. The issue with the safe withdrawal rate is you need to sell your asset to generate income. Something I am not comfortable doing.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 4 2025, 05:54 PM

But your target retirement is not like really doing nothing and just get money for normal expenses from maybe EPF etc etc. You are still doing options trading. My target retirement is basically do nothing, if I were to include "active trading" then I would be able to do FIRE even now, but again, it would be difficult to fill up the 16-20 hours when I'm not sleeping. My point is some of the stuff we rewarded our love ones, because I myself also won't be spending like the ultra rich on a 6-7 figures bags, or maybe even a watch which cost a year or 2 years pay.

If it were to be like a super frugal or extreme measure, don't you think you are only just prolonging your suffering from a 35-years to a lifelong suffering and extending it to all the people around you? Btw, I'm not trying to judge here. I get it you don't seems to have a happy working life thus you want to fast forward your FIRE. Not every one are happy or satisfied with our work or the pressure from work, but I think most of us here don't intend to spread our suffering to our loved ones. We will just plan on how to make our work life more enjoyable - at least that is for me, I won't say I'm truly happy with my work, I do like it because I'm doing something that I like, but there are stuff like office politics, presentation, goals that I try to avoid or not happy with it, but I do my best to have positive thinking and to make the best out of the working environment to upskill and to network more. If you are not happy with your current toxic work environment, you can always move elsewhere.

You don't like KPI, I also don't like, but the reality of life is KPI is everywhere, in business this is to see whether you are really working or lazying around. Even after you retire, you have your KPI - which is the target earnings from your tradings.

This post has been edited by jasontoh: Nov 5 2025, 09:14 AM

What do u think this figure per month is and what Nw needed? Living fatfire anywhere in the world?

while waiting for response....
my version...


Simple back of the envelope calc here

1K rm a day per pax in Malaysia is already more than adequate => 30K rm a month per person.
Similarly, about 1K sgd a day would go a long way almost anywhere else.
(Of course, in places like Vietnam, it’s probably closer to RM1K than SGD1K, right?)

Accommodation, especially temporary or ad-hoc stays, usually takes the biggest bite. Once that’s sorted, the rest of the spending is quite manageable.

But yeah, even with these numbers, I think it’s pretty overkill already… hopefully most would agree



Another, maybe more logical and structured way to look at it, is to base it on your actual spending while you were working.

Rough guide:
Around 80% of your gross salary (your usual take-home pay) = chubby FIRE
About 50% of gross salary = normal FIRE (anyone with proper savings planning understands why)
And if you can sustain min 100% of your gross salary in retirement, that is FAT FIRE already in same country really.

EPF is irrelevant to me. I won't have access to it as it is a very inefficient money machine. Not to mention withdrawal age will increase to what 62/65/70? My income will not be funded by EPF at all but fully on dividends and my options. Options will become backup.

You have never lived the FIRE life that why you don't know how to fill up your hours. I filled up the hours perfectly fine and I have lived the FIRE life before. Damn nice. Once you feel it, you don't want to go back to normal working life. I need to be frugal now as I aim for min RM20k per month salary (currently with inflation adjusted) on a 0.5-1%p.a dividend. RM20k is per person. If include wifey RM40k per month. Not easy. But going forward the dividend growth will do all the heavy lifting.

I will still be frugal but will ease up on experience with family. No need anything fancy. Simple masuk hutan or doing gardening with wifey and kids are also quality time. Mr tako was my teacher and you should see how he spend time with his kids. Too bad his blog disappeared.

min RM20k per month salary (currently with inflation adjusted). You can if you are frugal.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 5 2025, 10:44 AM

How do you live the FIRE life when you have yet to retire and achieved financial independence. If you are aiming 20K per month from dividend alone, you will need 24M assuming 1% DY. Even now with your options trading, you will need 100 years barring all the noises and variables.

Been there done that. I have live the LEAN FIRE life covered by my options income. My options income already 2x my annual salary already. Only suitable for single person. I walked away from a toxic Chinaman company without any job. That's why my supervisor was surprised. She said you can survive without job meh? I told her the truth and she said I have never seen someone so financially secured as you. My dividends already covered like 6 months of my pay already. AKA I am getting free 6 months bonus every single year.

The key is be aggressive in savings and investing. Invest in high quality asset and not high yield stock. Rinse and repeat. Every money you have, whether it is salary or dividends or option income keep reinvesting it. Let dividend growth do the heavy lifting. Who is going to increase your payment at 10-30%p.a?

I wouldn't get to where I am today and if I am not frugal to the max.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 5 2025, 12:08 PM

I think I only truly lived the FIRE lifestyle once, long before I even knew the phrase FIRE. It was definitely Lean FIRE.

Just graduated, had only 400 to 500 usd to last the month. Luckily, 1st month rent was covered by my employer.
Imagine surviving in a big US city on 10 dollars a day after utilities (ok, it was like 20 years ago... ) So it became a very simple life where one does a lot of free activities in a new city... so not so bad.

Second month, I allocated 800 for spending. wow, pure luxury! Finally bought proper work clothes and started eating out.... of course, spending became "normal" 3rd month onward.

Looking back, there was no real need to be that frugal. I could've just swiped my card and paid it off after payday.

I guess what I’m saying (I know, I am repeating) is you can loosen your budget a little, maybe by 1K a month (ur income now can handling this amt), and your long-term plan will still be just fine. the journey will at least be a bit more relaxing/chill.

If you have to constantly think about being aggressively frugal and saving money, it is not financial independence. True independence is never to have to think about money at all in all that you do.

I agree with sgd1k/day for fatfire anywhere in the world.

But using 100% gross salary i think not enough, cos some ppl income is not very high so not an accurate yardstick.



Fatfire but still frugal? I think u confusing fatfire with leanfire?

Rm20k per month is really childs play when u talking about world figures. Not enough to cover the roof over your head

Allow me to illustrate with a simple example.

Imagine a rational person living a normal life with a proper retirement savings plan.
Here are the basics:
a) Monthly salary: RM20K (RM240K per year)
b) Income tax: around 20%
c) EPF contribution: 11%
d) Additional personal savings: 20%

So effectively, their take home pay is about 70% of their gross salary. But since they save 20%, their actual spending is around 50% of gross income (roughly RM10K per month).

Now, after FIRE (meaning full retirement) if they maintain the same 10K monthly spending, their lifestyle hasn’t dropped at all. In fact, it even improve since work-related costs (commute, office meals, coffee, work clothes etc.) disappear.
That's what we call a "normal FIRE" lifestyle... maintaining at min the same real spending level as during working life.

Now if they decide to spend RM20K a month instead, that's FAT FIRE. Spending double what they used to while working, for the same location and standard of living.


If you have spare cash/income, you can try to calculate what you usually spend per month, and then pick a month where you allocate and spend double what you used to spend. It is very liberating really.

Edit: I just realized I didn't mention about this rational method. This method is using respective person's income and spending.
It implies that one needs to be realistic and know how to "ukur badan sendiri". Ie Fat Fire for a B40 is different level from a T01.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Nov 5 2025, 04:05 PM

You can still live frugally when fire. Like my RM20k I don't need to spend that RM20k. I can survive on say RM5k. If you live lavishly suddenly you are asking for trouble.

Just because you can earn that much doesn't mean you need to finish spending it. It give you options to spend if needed.

A very good example. I don't need to change my phone every year even if I can afford it. I can use it until obsolete or until it kaput. Same with car. Just because I can get new car every year at RM20k/month doesn't mean I need to get new car every year.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 5 2025, 03:49 PM

I think the figure will be rather high, especially when it's fatfire + anywhere in the world. Even those in/from developed countries look for lower cost of living countries. Being an average or even slightly above average Malaysian, it will be even more difficult.

This post has been edited by Gwynbleidd: Nov 5 2025, 05:31 PM