As long as you are happy, then really that is what matters I guess. For me I can never be happy if I have to always think about being frugal and saving money. Me and my wife don't think about money anymore, and it has been truly liberating.

That is the right way. No need think about money.

I'm a bit confuse now actually. I thought you are still working, no? And the salary is on the lower range which is why many here advising you to change job since you don't like the toxic environment and bosses, no? So it's like someone getting >100K in div not necessarily equal to a 6 months bonus because his/her pay would already be touching 30-50K.

I actually planned along the line of your description. I even install some cute app and keep track of spending on my phone. It has been 3 years or so now. I have some idea of my typical spending habit
So my short term target is to achieve "Dividend from all source >= Average monthly spending" first

I feel I have much lower expectations from normal people.
Me and my wife like to random browse in Mr DIY, no actual shopping list. Sometimes my wife will think out loud and say "Eh expensive leh"
I quickly sssssshhhh and remind her I would like to leave the mall alive and in one piece. Then she show me, I look at it and say Eh expensive leh. Gawddemmit

What are you confuse? My dividends is already 6 months worth of my pay. I am able to live the LEAN FIRE life because of my options. My options is like 2 my annual salary.

Good wife. What is there to live the mall alive 😅
It's OK to comment eh expensive leh. It shows that she won't simply spend the money.

The confusion part is where you are working but you are saying you are already FIRE, regardless or LEAN or not

This is a common confusion.

FIRE has 2 distinct component. FI for financial independence.
Re for retired early.


So some may say already fired to mean achieved independence
While others may mean already retired early.


Having said all these, I may start not telling people I am fire'd.... To short cut the explanation and discussion. Some more I am still young and drive a old car. (some even thought I got into some kind of trouble or abt to die due to some disease... Humans can be very creative)

I just say I am still working for semi-active income. Lol. A bit of trading here and there. Haha. Which opens another set of worms like saying behind my back to others not to lend money.

Lol... Peace of mind.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Nov 7 2025, 05:16 PM

I worry I kena whacked for saying Mr DIY stuff expensive. But it is not expensive in terms of the Price itself.
It is more like the quality does not justify the price. Like Daiso could have the alike item, slightly better quality for RM1 less, example.

FIRE means financial independence + retired early. It's not about green eye whether someone but it's entirely false assumption that one achieved FI while working, because you still have income which can be use to increase the investment value, thus increasing the future value and while FIRE mostly depending on the withdrawal strategy from the pot. In my own calculation, I also can FIRE due to the fact my current passive income enough to sustain my commitments, but without my income, my investment value will grow extremely slow.

In fact this was one of the question my manager asked me in recent layoff wave, IF I get the VSS, how long can I sustain without getting new job and when I told her that I'll do fine because my passive income (aka dividend from stock) is more than my monthly commitment + with some extra for other expenses, and she was quite surprise that my fixed commitment so low (not low, but low to her standard) because I just got a new car and I have few other properties. Having said so it would mean that I do not have extra to increase my investment, thus sort of like fixed my income for the next X years until I bid farewell to the world. And regarding the income from options, I would still think it's too slow to help me grow the networth.

So my confusion here is I agree some people can already reach FI without the RE, but it's actually not really similar. Once the RE come into place, the potentially of touching the goose will always be there.

To me it's not considered fully FIRE if still dependant on dividends , options or other income. To be fully FIRE must be able to draw down from retirement fund only.


This post has been edited by magika: Nov 7 2025, 05:39 PM

Care to elaborate a bit more pls? Your notion is intriguing.

Cannot rely on dividends means epf and stocks are out of the questions.
Other income means pension or fixed income instruments.

So what do you have in mind for retirement fund? Or your idea is direct holding cannot count but reits and mutual funds are fine?

To be financially independent one must be able to drawdown entirely from the funds that you have accumulated. Being dependant on epf dividends, options, rental does not mean independance.

This post has been edited by magika: Nov 7 2025, 05:55 PM

Oh. May I say basically what is the networth/portfolio divided by yearly expenditure in essence, exceeding a certain number like 30?

Ie if per year spends 100k a year, and networth of 4m, then the ratio is 40 and the person can afford to retire?

Safe withdrawal rate was previously used for retirees and you know of it also.

Shouldn't financial independence mean that you can solely depends on passive income via dividend (EPF/stocks) or rental. This type of income, you don't even have to dip into the savings jar for as long as the goose can lay eggs for you. If we are drawing down from a fund entirely eventually it will be gone but in this case your assets are intact, just no longer growing.

So only those cash rich qualified for your standards of financially independent.....another level up
Kesian many FIRE wanna be
would cry foul soon...

Suddenly you stripped of their hard earned FIRE status...when equity and stocks are their main Staples......

It just mean that you able to survive on your income. It's not financial independance. There is no guarantee of your income. Stretching FI I would say those on gomen pencen can be group in.if epf then need use just 2.5% guaranteed dividen.

Let say your monthly pay is 5k, annually 60k.
So your dividend is 6x5k=30k, options gains 120k. Total annual side income of 150k. Is that right? Good job.

This post has been edited by MGM: Nov 7 2025, 06:23 PM

You can FIRE and still be working. Up to you if you want to work.

I walked away from that toxic job without blinking as I know I will be OK. I gave and serve my 3 months notice. It wasn't planned but I just said one day here is my resignation letter. That is the beauty of FIRE. Able to walk away from a job that you don't like and is toxic and be fine. I spend the next 6 months unemployed and wasn't looking for jobs. Didn't even panic about bills or anxious about my savings and I just slow down. Have lots of sleep, go for my daily walk in nature for around 2-3hours, gardening. Learning to cook new things. Best 6 months of my life Dividends still coming in. Options income still coming in. Still cash flow positive every month (most important thing)

If your planning and your investing is right, you will never need to kill your goose or cow for money. In fact they will continue to multiply.

They got nothing really interesting. But they got good shoes. Goco shoes (kampung Adidas). I use that as my main working shoes. RM8 like that and last for good 3 years. Super comfortable.

I don't use safe withdrawal rate as I don't intent to sell or drawdown anything. Why should I sell off anything when I got passive income coming in without the need to sell off thing? Doesn't make sense for me.

The safe withdrawal rate is pure textbook. I don't follow conventional textbook way. More difficult to understand and estimate. I like to keep things simple. I don't like to worry what about what if.

Many FIRE bloggers that I follow are also not using safe withdrawal rate and they are doing fine.

Whether you want to use safe withdrawal rate or passive income as long as you are OK. Black cat or orange cat as long as it can catch mouse is a good cat. You don't want a cat that cannot catch mouse. This was a phase a Singaporean share so I am just quoting that.😂
Yes income not guaranteed. But if company paying only 10-30% of their earnings, no debts or net cash, very unlikely income will be cut. Come on you got to agree to that.

That is why build up multiple stream of income. So that if one gets cut you have others coming in.

That's why I have 3 sources of income.
1. Salary
2. Dividends
3. Options income.
1 and 3 are doing my heavy lifting currently. Planning to convert 1 and 3 to fully 2 only with 3 as backup and no more the heavy lifter.

Yes something like that.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 7 2025, 07:12 PM

well, there is a mapping of SWR to the ratio of networth over yearly expenditure... so you are right....

using the earlier example,
100K expenditure when one has 4m is equivalent to 2.5% swr.
So, if the ratio one think is safe enough to fully retire is 40, then set swr to 2.5

This is why most FIRE practitioners considers 3.3% as a good swr because the equivalent ratio is 33...aka last 33 years
if really kiasi, swr of 2% is super safe, as that equates to ratio of 50.... if the portfolio does nothing, it will last 50 years....

swr of 1% means ratio of 100! This is really LEAN FIRE already also... imagine have 10m but can only spend 8.33K rm pm. networth confirm grow irl till after death and still grow...