With the overload of recent flames and all that, I'd like to open a challenge thread. Not this isn't a goddamn challenge to another person, so keep those personal feuds to yourself, this is a challenge to yourself. Nobody else.

This may be troublesome, and some might not be bothered to join, but those who do, i put my hats off for you.

1. Download the file, weightlift.zip

2. Input your current lifts (i notice a lot of people here don't do olympic lifts but i just added those)

3. Do a print screen. (Ctrl+Prt Scr) and paste it into MSPAINT

4. Load the picture

5. Check back occasionally, and tell us of your progress.

And I've added mine, so I'll be keeping track, so will you guys be able to.

Cheerios guys, keep the fighting off aight? Peace out.


http://www.filefactory.com/file/aac178/ <--alternative d'load link

Probably The Best 30 Minutes You'll Spend In Your Life

I Like Madcow's Method Of Rowing.

Something Madcow Made And I Think We Should All Read

Dave Draper Bloggie Sumathing Thingie

This post has been edited by pizzaboy: Jul 7 2008, 10:40 AM


Attached thumbnail(s)


Attached File(s)
 Weightlift.zip ( 4.64k ) Number of downloads: 19

Would love to try this out, but i'm cutting soon...
won't have the strength for it.... well, maybe next time

dude, this is nonsense man.....
just cuz you're cutting don't mean you MUST get weaker.
when I cut from 180 to 165lbs, my bench from 235LBS still managed to maintain.

doesn't necesarrily mean you must get weaker cuz ur cutting.

actually when you cut... you 'd eat less than normal times so how'd you carry heavy?? like right now im bulking up.... i can squat 140kg 8 reps only if i eat like three big meals and plenty of potaotes before gym... imagine cutting down your meal to only small amount of carbs for lunch. i think it depends if you don't overdo your cardio as well...

This post has been edited by kanishen18: Jul 16 2007, 12:46 AM

I went from 3300 cals a day to 2600 cals a day.....gradually of course, and somehow still managed to maintain strength. of course i lost some size

Yes pizza, u said it urself...
i'll be happy if i can MAINTAIN my strength...
But your idea is more of a challenge and break-PRs oriented.

i'm in.. i think i'm the only guy in here who shares the same goals as u.. but i think i need the challenge to achieve my own goals too..

thx for this great idea!! helps to make this place a better place with all the flames going on..

---

Added on July 16, 2007, 1:00 pmerr... dude.. can't seem to DL the file.. says it's invalid or corrupted..

This post has been edited by carlsuen: Jul 16 2007, 01:00 PM

mmmm.....i'll host it somewhere ....hehe

http://www.filefactory.com/file/aac178/

Hey, can i post some vids here of my workout today?
I'm uploading it atm...

btw kirk, u got ur vid?

Nah, couldn't get it. I had a macroeconomics test at 8PM, and had to rush thru all of the workouts after class. Masuk gym already 5.15, train till 6, then go eat and study. Didn't even get to bathe. So I couldn't be bothered to vid it. Will do so this Wednesday (I hope)

Today was cool, did 225LBSx5 F.Squats and 205LBSx5 Benches, but hurt my wrists doing 205LBS clean and press. I'm worried about this Wednesday when I have to deadlift. Wonder how's the grip going to treat me.

Btw, you wanna load, by all means. GO ahead.

This post has been edited by pizzaboy: Jul 16 2007, 11:05 PM

Stupid TNB, blackout just now while i was uploading...

These are not impressive vids... in fact, it's a failure vid.
No form lah today, failed bench the second time. Didn't even
have strength to dip as usual... maybe partly due to my diet...
i lost 2kg and am back at 98kg

95kg Squat


65kg Bench Press (first attempt)


65kg Bench Press (Second attempt)



=((((

ah, nvm lah... as long as i tried my best in the gym...
strength is not really what i'm after anyway....

those are some nice attempts.
keep going at them

btw, bench, push the bar away faster....you're too slow

Izzit?
I dunno... i always wanna have control over the weights, so i did it slow even for rep 1.
Thanks to the vid, it's obvious i'm weak at mid point.... what's mid point again? tris ??

You're locking your arms too for the bench

locking arms ?

ur squats are good...but then in my opinnion, if u go that low..ur killing ur joints..and ur bench press u go to low as well..also kill ur joints and as yeck says..locking ur elbow...kills ur joints and u takes the pressure on ur muscle away...id day work on the technique..form is not bat..getting there..but i think u need to work on ur technique

thank you guys

your bench grip too narrow for your body. ur forearm must me vertical all the way up and down, when you go down, your grip is too narrow and your elbow is sticking outwards, which will screw your elbow. and again, knees behind toes la lol

you are right about the grip bro...
hmm... need to fix that too

i can't keep knees behind toes lah... i'm doing narrow stance.
My knee injuries could've been caused by going too low at narrow stance.

my sumo stance is weaker, but it's easier for me to follow ur knees-toes rule with that.

i dont know about u king...but u should always have pressure on ur working muscle..fully extending it will take away the pressure and so is going to low...and at the same time it hurts ur joints..to i give u the tip of the day from me...never go all the way down and never go all the way up...try it and tell me how u feel...remember always have pressure on the working muscle.

u gotta keep knee behind toe man. its not a rule, its to prevent u from screwing your knees man. now u r not doing BW yet, when u go above BW like 1.5x or 2x, your knees will pop out if u dont do knees behind toes. unless ur body structure allows that.. or go bellow parallel enough la. i do below parallel, i cant go A2G with wide stance.

http://www.google.com.my/search?hl=en&q=squatting+deep&meta=

http://www.musclewithattitude.com/readTopic.do?id=1084977

I will have to disagree completely with what you have said, about going deep kills joints. It's been repeated over and over again, it's like a powerlifters and olympic lifters mantra, go deep. But then again, you're a bb'er so I guess principals clash there.

I kinda agree with eldan, goin too low (on narrow stance) hurts my knees.

and i understand what jones is trying to convey...
but i still think it's impossible to keep knees behind toes on narrow stance.
It's just impossible to balance.... but for wider stance, then yes, i always keep my knees
behind the toes.

I'm just following what carl said about squatting being natural...
it's just not natural to keep knees behind toes on narrow stance.
Jones' squat is considered a sumo squat to me.... it's so wide, even carl went "whoah, so wide ah?".
That's why he's been able to keep his knees behind toes.

totally no. u can do knees behind toes with narrow stance. i already show u that day =.="

Betul ke?
Make a vid and show again can?

even if it's possible, i can't do it.... i'm not THAT flexible.

then learn and stretch to be flexible. ronnie coleman can do split legs. where the balls touches the ground and legs on both sides.

YES!! FINALLY!! SOME SIGN OF INTELLIGENT LIFE IN H&F!!!

lol jk.. about time we had these kinds of discussion...

personally, i do agree with pizza.. mainly cuz i lean more towards the powerlifter style of training and technique.. IMO, knees going past ur toes on squats are inevitable.. mainly u read articles telling u that knees going past toes is bad cuz they're afraid ppl would eventually let the weight stray forward.. so to ensure that everyone sits back during the squat they say try ur best to get ur knees behind ur toes.. kings form on the squat would not be perfect, but i would give it a 70-80% mark..

and regarding his form on bench, there are a few things that has to be clarified first.. first of all, what are u trying to achieve? bodybuilding or powerlifting? sounds to me u're trying to go for maximum size not max strength..

for max size, i think u should listen to the others here for BB form.. for i'm not sure.. but AFAIK u want max muscle contraction etc.. and at that weight, u're struggling to push the weight up, hence u won't be able to get max contraction as u were just trying to complete the lift rather then benefit from that set.. and if u're not in control of that weight, and wanna go that wide, u'll end up farking urself up..

and as for max strength, that would be a totally different ball game man.. ur form on that vid if for the sake of strength WOULD screw up ur elbows and RC.. cuz u're elbows looks too wide.. read up on competition bench form for powerlifters.. that would be a start..

and i would also advice u to reflect on ur goals and stick to it.. if u're out for size, do it the right way, for strength? do it the right way too.. madcow 5x5 is a strength programme.. hence u should do the big 3 powerlifter style(cept for squat where u can choose between sumo or oly squat).. that's my opinion..

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/power-lifting/

the link above is my bible to the big 3.. this should be able to clarify the PL style of lifting and research done on it..

This post has been edited by carlsuen: Jul 17 2007, 02:57 PM

agree or disagree with me is up to u guys..but ive tried both..and going deeps kills my ankles and knees...thats my experience..and arnold goes all the way down as well...but according to his bodybuilding bible, he advises to wear knee guard..and i assume majority of us dont...so its up to u guys...go deep or injury free .. its just my opinnion

thanks all for the input, appreciate it...
i will do what's best for me...

true that on the knee wraps.. i think at some point when i eventually start to approach 405s.. i would consider the use of a belt and knee wraps.. u have to take care of ur body well with form like that.. hence individual research is so important.. u can't expect to come to a forum and emerge full of knowledge.. it is a lifelong learning process.. and there are some things, especially details that only u can understand and remember after doing ur own reading.. not by just reading and hearing on other ppls testimonial that this exercise A is good and exercise B is not good, there are always 2 sides of the coin..

---

Added on July 17, 2007, 3:05 pmlet have a discussion here eldan.. from a BB POV, do u do half squats free weight? and if u do, do u go max weight?

cuz IMO, if u're going max weight on half squats or at least parellel, i think u'd end up screwing ur knees EVEN MORE!!

but i think there are a tonne of other ways to train ur legs other then squat.. and something tells me u don't half squat..

This post has been edited by carlsuen: Jul 17 2007, 03:05 PM

u see...the problem is....i try to carry as heavy as i can with 100% form...so my max squats is around 100-120kg depending on mood + perfect form...and if i feel pressure on my knees..id stop squatting and move on to other exercise ASAP...and my squats i vary...sometimes i half squats some times i full squats...

i really don't know much about BB form.. but i really have to comment, someone said in an earlier post that max muscle contraction is the most important in any lift for a BB.. but IMO, as a BB, most of the time, rep ranges would be above 8.. and for me it would seem impossible to keep to perfect form as such high rep ranges depending on my 8RM or 12RM or higher.. hence the use of lower weight.. as weight carried in the gym is not as important to a BB then total perfect form..

have u read up on the link that i just posted? the sticky on the squat.. only half the article is on full squat.. so filter thru what u wanna read..

i'm not trying to criticise ur opinion or way of training but i would like to invite u to think critically on this..

cuz alot of times, we wanna go for heaviest weight we can carry.. y? a few days ago, a reg forumer said and i quote "bodybuilding IS an ego game"

I dunno man...
i'm just following blindly...
but i'll tell you this...

madcow's 5RMs made my chest grow way more than when i was benching 10-12 reps

that's y i'm saying don't follow blindly.. y not spend more time reading up rather then posting unneccesarily on every thread? pls don't take this the wrong way k.. i'm trying to help u here..

there should be a sign in the Gym that says Please check in ur EGO and..or No EGO pass this point...there is a reason why i never post up how heavy i carry..cause weights its not important..BB is about symmetry and shape and size...not how strong u are..u wanna compare how strong u are..go join iron man or worlds strongest man contest or something...but like i said..everyone have different training styles...1 way doesnt suit everyone..

exactly.. which is y i would like to ask all BBs opinion here.. don't u think u would be benefitting more from lesser weight but perfect mind-muscle connection?

and if u're not doing ur heaviest weight? then there is a lesser chance of joint injuries etc.. right?

would like comments from other experienced BBs too..

No... i'm not taking this the wrong way. Seriously, i'm benefiting from this.

what i'm trying to say is... I dunno how i ended up starting madcow,
but madcow has given me more size than when i was doing moderately high reps (10 to 12).
This is very contradictory to bb where i should be lifting lighter and feel every muscle contraction.
I dunno why madcow works better, i can't explain it.

and you should see jones... just 5,6 weeks into madcow, his chest exploded

yah explodes it does... but later on i think u need to work on muscle symmetry or what not.. which i totally have no idea about..

but if u're unsure of something, u must go and research on it.. to maximise the benefits..

Muscle symmetry, I think you're goin to have to go with stuff like

-Dumbell bench press
-Incline benches
-Decline benches
-Dumbell Flys
-Pec decks
-Weighted push-ups

Gotta mix and match all those excercises to really give your chest a bodybuilding blast.


Anyway, I'm going to start using knee wraps soon already. I'm struggling with 6 plate squats, and my knees don't feel so happy with me afterwards. It's like a dilemma you.....if I go parallel only, my knees seem to hurt. If I go ATG, I'm afraid I'll have trouble coming up....

aiyehh....

me=jealous.. today baru dapat 275.. will shoot for a vid next tuesday..

kneewraps it is then..

I think you should quit the mentality that as long as it's not ATG, it's not hardcore because I will tell you that there are many pro bodybuilders who do not go ATG but at least lower than parallel, and they have much better leg development than powerlifters.
Granted yes, going just parallel or above it will induce a tremendous shearing force on the knees but is ATG an absolute must?
Last I checked, Jay Cutler and Bob Cicherillo don't seem to have any knee problems.

This post has been edited by darklight79: Jul 17 2007, 04:58 PM

I hear ya man. Having been on a hybrid powerlifting/bodybuilding style program before, I can say that a lot of trainees here do not understand how important periodization is.
They do not grasp the concept that myofibrillar hypertrophy is not totally in sync with muscular hypertrophy. They do not take into consideration the factors of joint wear and tear, susceptibility to injuries and CNS burnout.
There is such a thing as progressing too fast but they'd like to think that as long as they keep piling on weight to the barbell, it's totally fine, eg. As long as they think they can keep adding 2.5 lbs to a barbell every week, in a few years they would be lifting thousands of pounds! I'm just anticipating an injury waiting to happen if they do not keep their enthusiasm in check. If everyone thought that progression in the weightlifting game is just linear, then we'd have untold numbers of Benni Magnussons, Jesse Marundes and Ronnie Colemans all over the place.

knee wraps? where to get them, AFAIK arnold doesn't go even parallel doing narrow stance, he does what we call quater squat, for narrow stance, because any lower it will screw your knee.

dude.. read our previous posts.. we are discussing about weight used and joints that we are afraid of injuring in the long run.. and when did i ever say that not squatting ATG is not hardcore? and i do not condone above parellel.. anything below parellel is absolutely fine.. u quoted my post saying that i DO THINK that there are plenty other ways to train ur legs-_-.. plus, my emphasis was on strength gain on the squat.. we were not talking about leg development..

You don't need to. There's a thing called connotation. And stop being so touchy like a woman.

yala.. u and your sarcasm..

i think u are having too much fun flaming ppl here.. stick to only one pls..

Zzz... you idiot. You should know if I'm flaming someone.

Hey

i actually edited out another sentence.. hehe.. will pm u..

pizzaboy ur clean and press higher than ur clean and jerk?

yeah that's normal.. to jerk is harder then to clean.. as form has to be perfect..

Why don't you copy the thing and paste it up too?
I'd like to see how you're progressing!

The reason the clean/jerk is lower is because I cannot get the technique right.

It's very DIFFICULT to squat with a clean grip. Your elbow must be VERY high upwards, and your wrists must be extremely flexible. And often the weights are resting of the tips of your fingers only. So to clean the weight, that's easy. To SQUAT it later......hoaakay! That's a challenge. The below sequence is a "snatch" but, imagine the snatching part ending at a clean (or at the front delts)



For clean/press, it's easy to clean it up. Then all you need to do, from your standing position, snap it above your head. And whee!



For the benefit of those who are scratching their heads wondering about the dfifrence.

Btw, you CANNOT clean the weights like the lady in the above picture. You gotta snap it up and "jump" a bit slightly before/after your knees, while extending your toes or else the weight won't clean up. The lady did it with much lighter weights. So it's still possible.

This post has been edited by pizzaboy: Jul 17 2007, 07:22 PM

i think its impossible to keep on adding weights..at the begining u can do it..but not later on...alot of things comes into play when ur lifting heavy...joints, muscle tear, safety, bones....and also form...no point saying u can bench so and so when ur not doing it properly or at least doing it right...

Which is exactly my point. Newbie gains are deceptive. They give a false sense of invulnerability but when wear and tear happens on the CNS, joints, ligaments then only will trainees realize sometimes you gotta go by feel and not be pressured to make PRs.
As a probodybuilder said, a person can train for 3 years and still can be considered a newbie. It takes years and years of experience to get things right and dialed in.

hope this conversation is read and learn by the people here i guess its not our loss...

Haha. Well, as long as we're experiencing hypertrophy, that's all that matters because that is what you and I are after. Do you remember watching one of Milos Sarcev's videos on chest training? He once walked into a gym, a trainee who had an above average chest but nothing special was benching 315lbs.
Another trainee was just benching 60kg, but had a well developed almost competition class chest. It's mind muscle connection mate.

woo!!
i'mma be like this!

Then you need to realize that higher reps will also give you strength to attain your goal. You do remember my training partner which took your deadlift poundage you could only do with 1 RM and he deadlifted that 20 times. , TUT and without even deloading. And he ain't no powerlifter.

This post has been edited by darklight79: Jul 17 2007, 08:34 PM

which is whyyyy.....we have boris sheiko and smolov and korte!
Been incorporating some 60% 5-8x3 sets. Not as easy as it seems after a while..

which in conclusion u r still a powerlifter lol. boris eh, might give it a try after i'm done iwth madcow

dude, i will probably NEVER be a bodybuilder....powerlifting's like the base of my training. I do olympic lifts to get stronger for my deadlifts and squats, and to move faster.

if only i can find bands and chains......at cheaper prices.....giler mahal wei chains.

hips still not fine.. i cant even deadlift 60 .... well i can but sakit..

my clean and jerk less then urs by a lot like 55 kg onli but my military presses were way less .. around 45 kg

onli upper body lifts for me....

how u injured ur hips ?

cleans... after exam super enthusiatic , did cleans without deloading.. continued to train and it got worse so i stopped

ya know, i'm glad we're talkin bout lifting heavy weights here.....but nobody's posting no numbers?
it's gonna be another chat thread again soon.............man.....

c'mon guys, post sometime.
i'll update ur numbers in my first post.

hey pizza u learned clean and jerk your self? interest leh.. i wana learn to do snatch...

i learned how to clean myself
and then i learned the jerk via youtube videos
and i still can't do the snatch properly, despite watching a million and 1 videos.
in the end i just learnt it from a pahang friend who's a oly lifting guy

so what weight u started doing clean? i takut i clean until the bar hit my face

Started with bar lor
but then it accelerated way too fast.
So added to 135lbs....and it's nice...

cant do it at california fitness, i'll hit some one or the ceiling until i finish my contract i'm out of there!

dude...powercleans don't go above your head....
how'd you hit the ceiling?

as for people around you, watch before you clean lah.....if you hit someone, then it's their business for walking around and being kaypoh.

eeek i'm referring to jerk as well. and snatch. lol i wana learn snatch squats

Dude...........erh....snatch squats?

Unless you're speaking about overhead squats (which are RIDICULOUSLY difficult compared to any form of squats I've done)
For your oly lifts, like clean/jerk or snatches, I'll recommend watching lotsa lotsa videos.

You gotta be really careful when doing snatches. Do it wrongly, you'll fall over. You'll find that the clean and jerk is much easier than crazy snatches. Besides, I'll move more weight doing clean and jerk anyway.

Gonna lift lift lift hard later!

haha snatch squats = over head squats i think. yeah its hard but it looks interesting to try out man.

Depends what time you go la..

There is space between the rack and smith

http://tomgorman.moonfruit.com/shanehamman

we gotta be ultra careful and conservative with the weight we put up with cleans and overhead squats.. they're very hard.. but they train ur explosiveness and core more then ever! over head squat gives u really good training with ur balance and core.. while the clean, jerk and snatch are pure technique.. of cuz u do need a strong core to be able to balance the weight over ur head and make sure ur arms don't get ripped out of their sockets!!!

I just watched king's squat video. My lord, you tilt too far forward! You need a technique change. Time to box squat, old padawan.

I'll recommend a slightly below parallel box for you. Sit on that box, rest for about 1/2 second, and get up again. Squeeze your glutes while moving up. Go read up techniques for box squatting, it'll be clearer. Goodness gracious .....you really must learn how to lock your knees.

If you watch good squatters squat, you'll see that their shins do not move much. They really squat properly. Fight that rounding of your lower back btw. Rep 4-5 not good...back rounded

you guys are over emphasizing on the knee-toes thing.
As long as the weights are moving up and down vertically, i think it's fine.

maybe i should take a vid from backwards to show u my stance's width.
anyway, thanks for the criticism kirk...
i have a low box-stool like thing in my gym.
I'll see how much of a verticle shin i can keep while box squatting on it. thanks.

Kirk... hope u can get some squat vids in today...
I wanna see how a pro does it.

I'll be getting more vids too... and i don't want to
be the only one posting vids here.

over emphasizing? if u get a screwed knee dont come crying to us

i actually have a vid, but youtube ain't leetin me upload it man........sttttctewpid.....

it's a vid of my front squatting my bro hahahahaha
terrible form of course, hahaha he was struggling too much

Come to think about it, I could squat my housemate.....

yep yep!
but it's overhead pressing them, and putting tehm on your back that's the b****
especially when ur bro struggles like mad

LOL pizza, i would like to see that vid ROFL...

syd, u back? is that you in the avatar?
you gotta teach me to do that mannnn

pizzaboy : Wont I get ...er.... a bulging organ pressing on the back of my head? For girls it aint so bad but euwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

King : Teach wot? How to get two upper abs peaks? I personally think its more genetics than training. Like how you have bicep peaks and I dont .

But then I might be wrong

okay... i'm kinda traumatized...
i walked into the locker room and i saw one of the big dudes
holding a syringe in his hand. That's freaky...
he just brushed it off saying he's a doctor.

anyway, moving on to something easier to swallow.
Here are my first time doing box squat vids...
It's nothing worth looking at really, i'm not very happy with my
form either.... but i'll be doing this when i start HST next week.
Hopefully there's still some patience left in you guys to teach
me till i get it right.

kthanksbye

Pizza is right....
I can't lock my knees...
therefore if u ask me to do quarter or half squat, i can't...

i need to do a lot of box squatting mannnn.....
Thanks for introducing this to me.

btw, i noticed i shouldn't stand too close to the box, so that my shins can go straighter.
but scared lah if i landed on my butt, that's gonna really hurt.

very good
very good

---

Added on July 18, 2007, 11:07 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGlAu6xkMec

it's silly trust me

This post has been edited by pizzaboy: Jul 18 2007, 11:07 PM

You are funny kirk.... i always liked it when u talk
in the beginning of your vids.... like the last time u count
ur weights before squatting ROFL...

and holy shit.... all that struggling and you still managed to
keep knees behind toes

btw, need u to clarify something...
am i doing it right?


Am i doing it right by bending my body like in diagram A, the weights are centralized.

Or should i do it like diagram B.... but i think it's impossible to stand up
from position B.

This post has been edited by King83: Jul 18 2007, 11:24 PM

If it's a non-back squat, Diagram B. Park your ego. Reduce the weights if necessary. You shouldn't be slouching anyway.

I got whalloped by an Oly lifter for squatting & doing voluntary good mornings .

it's "A"
b.....u'll fall over

Stupid tmnut screamyx...
internet interuptions throughout the klang valley...

anyway, kirk u made that video for me?
U kept saying look at knees dey....
Thanks bro ! come down kl sometime, i belanja u ankipesto

leaning towards too much will kill u tho. u know what king. u should drop your weights. re do squats and fix your form, u've got some form problem there.

yeah i noticed that too...
nvm lah, HST got 15 and 10 reps wan....
i'll go lighter and plenty of time to fix my form.
Thanks for letting me know.