i'm in.. i think i'm the only guy in here who shares the same goals as u.. but i think i need the challenge to achieve my own goals too..

thx for this great idea!! helps to make this place a better place with all the flames going on..

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Added on July 16, 2007, 1:00 pmerr... dude.. can't seem to DL the file.. says it's invalid or corrupted..

This post has been edited by carlsuen: Jul 16 2007, 01:00 PM

YES!! FINALLY!! SOME SIGN OF INTELLIGENT LIFE IN H&F!!!

lol jk.. about time we had these kinds of discussion...

personally, i do agree with pizza.. mainly cuz i lean more towards the powerlifter style of training and technique.. IMO, knees going past ur toes on squats are inevitable.. mainly u read articles telling u that knees going past toes is bad cuz they're afraid ppl would eventually let the weight stray forward.. so to ensure that everyone sits back during the squat they say try ur best to get ur knees behind ur toes.. kings form on the squat would not be perfect, but i would give it a 70-80% mark..

and regarding his form on bench, there are a few things that has to be clarified first.. first of all, what are u trying to achieve? bodybuilding or powerlifting? sounds to me u're trying to go for maximum size not max strength..

for max size, i think u should listen to the others here for BB form.. for i'm not sure.. but AFAIK u want max muscle contraction etc.. and at that weight, u're struggling to push the weight up, hence u won't be able to get max contraction as u were just trying to complete the lift rather then benefit from that set.. and if u're not in control of that weight, and wanna go that wide, u'll end up farking urself up..

and as for max strength, that would be a totally different ball game man.. ur form on that vid if for the sake of strength WOULD screw up ur elbows and RC.. cuz u're elbows looks too wide.. read up on competition bench form for powerlifters.. that would be a start..

and i would also advice u to reflect on ur goals and stick to it.. if u're out for size, do it the right way, for strength? do it the right way too.. madcow 5x5 is a strength programme.. hence u should do the big 3 powerlifter style(cept for squat where u can choose between sumo or oly squat).. that's my opinion..

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/power-lifting/

the link above is my bible to the big 3.. this should be able to clarify the PL style of lifting and research done on it..

This post has been edited by carlsuen: Jul 17 2007, 02:57 PM

true that on the knee wraps.. i think at some point when i eventually start to approach 405s.. i would consider the use of a belt and knee wraps.. u have to take care of ur body well with form like that.. hence individual research is so important.. u can't expect to come to a forum and emerge full of knowledge.. it is a lifelong learning process.. and there are some things, especially details that only u can understand and remember after doing ur own reading.. not by just reading and hearing on other ppls testimonial that this exercise A is good and exercise B is not good, there are always 2 sides of the coin..

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Added on July 17, 2007, 3:05 pmlet have a discussion here eldan.. from a BB POV, do u do half squats free weight? and if u do, do u go max weight?

cuz IMO, if u're going max weight on half squats or at least parellel, i think u'd end up screwing ur knees EVEN MORE!!

but i think there are a tonne of other ways to train ur legs other then squat.. and something tells me u don't half squat..

This post has been edited by carlsuen: Jul 17 2007, 03:05 PM

i really don't know much about BB form.. but i really have to comment, someone said in an earlier post that max muscle contraction is the most important in any lift for a BB.. but IMO, as a BB, most of the time, rep ranges would be above 8.. and for me it would seem impossible to keep to perfect form as such high rep ranges depending on my 8RM or 12RM or higher.. hence the use of lower weight.. as weight carried in the gym is not as important to a BB then total perfect form..

have u read up on the link that i just posted? the sticky on the squat.. only half the article is on full squat.. so filter thru what u wanna read..

i'm not trying to criticise ur opinion or way of training but i would like to invite u to think critically on this..

cuz alot of times, we wanna go for heaviest weight we can carry.. y? a few days ago, a reg forumer said and i quote "bodybuilding IS an ego game"

that's y i'm saying don't follow blindly.. y not spend more time reading up rather then posting unneccesarily on every thread? pls don't take this the wrong way k.. i'm trying to help u here..

exactly.. which is y i would like to ask all BBs opinion here.. don't u think u would be benefitting more from lesser weight but perfect mind-muscle connection?

and if u're not doing ur heaviest weight? then there is a lesser chance of joint injuries etc.. right?

would like comments from other experienced BBs too..

yah explodes it does... but later on i think u need to work on muscle symmetry or what not.. which i totally have no idea about..

but if u're unsure of something, u must go and research on it.. to maximise the benefits..

me=jealous.. today baru dapat 275.. will shoot for a vid next tuesday..

kneewraps it is then..

dude.. read our previous posts.. we are discussing about weight used and joints that we are afraid of injuring in the long run.. and when did i ever say that not squatting ATG is not hardcore? and i do not condone above parellel.. anything below parellel is absolutely fine.. u quoted my post saying that i DO THINK that there are plenty other ways to train ur legs-_-.. plus, my emphasis was on strength gain on the squat.. we were not talking about leg development..

yala.. u and your sarcasm..

i think u are having too much fun flaming ppl here.. stick to only one pls..

i actually edited out another sentence.. hehe.. will pm u..

yeah that's normal.. to jerk is harder then to clean.. as form has to be perfect..

we gotta be ultra careful and conservative with the weight we put up with cleans and overhead squats.. they're very hard.. but they train ur explosiveness and core more then ever! over head squat gives u really good training with ur balance and core.. while the clean, jerk and snatch are pure technique.. of cuz u do need a strong core to be able to balance the weight over ur head and make sure ur arms don't get ripped out of their sockets!!!

but this is a poundages oriented thread.. ..

yo kirks.. are u still on boris? i'm gonna start Dual Factor 5x5 (periodization) after august.. so i gotta find my true 5RM on my bench which i've neglected for so long.. i hope all the BB and DB negative work i've done would have strengthened my RC and left arm.. according to the calculations, i should be able to hit 300 on both squats and DLs..

super exited to start it as the volume looks insane for the first 4 weeks too..

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Added on July 19, 2007, 2:59 pmhttp://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm

right this is the link to the DF 5x5 in case anyone was wondering.. this is actually the original 5x5.. the linear SF 5x5 which most of the regs here are running is entirely different to the DF 5x5.. cuz it does not have a loading and unloading phase..

i hope this would be a good read for anyone who wants to understand periodization... of cuz it would be better understood if u done the programme itself..

This post has been edited by carlsuen: Jul 19 2007, 02:59 PM

yeah.. that's what i thought too when i first started the SF 5x5.. i was like.. "whoa.. damn complicated.." but right now after a year and half on the SF, i've learned more about my body, recovery rates, and i feel i finally milked all my newbie gains after 2years of lifting..

so when i went back to read up on the DF, it wasn't so hard to understand actually.. in fact.. it's pretty easy to follow.. as it has 3 parts.. namely, loading phase, deload and intensity phase.. i didn't understand the difference in rep ranges and frequency of workouts initially.. but after training for an amount of time and taking breaks in between, i understood why..

so continue to eat and lift and u will get a pretty good idea how ur body works and how these programmes work too..

it's actually not hard to understnad at all.. haha.. but like i said.. i think u need to have a certain amount of experience to be able to understnad it..

pizza, u still on the DL routine?

@darklight79.. the DF 5x5 will commence come this september.. in the mean time i have to find the true max of my big 3.. mainly my bench.. cuz was doing alot of negative works for my shoulders and incline DB bench.. any thoughts on this? have u done periodization on this b4? or have u done something similiar?

@pizza.. dude.. just a quick question.. when was the last time u deloaded? u're in PR territory now right? for how long? and how long have u been on volume(if u are) i'm getting the feeling from ur description that u are starting to overreach.. so start to plan and take advantage of it.. if this is what's happening that is..

hope dark can comment and contribute to this..

lol.. i AM fukking with the programme.. albeit i know what i'm doing.. but u can't really switch the big 3.. which is y i set the DF so far in september.. cuz at the rate i'm going, don't know how long i can last on 5lbs a week.. squats are really getting hard at 275.. i need a spotter behind me just to feel safe, even then my body shakes like a tremor on my way up.. i really do not wish to start using a belt till i hit at least 3 plates.. on deads i'm already starting to use the belt on and off for my top set with straps..

i'd like to progress further all natural and hopefully without much help from equipments..

i'm definitely not an advanced lifter.. but according to the progression rate of the DF, i could slap on 25lbs of PR by 9-10 weeks.. which is almost equivalant to the SF.. but i feel that i don't get enough work done(i've been on the SF principle for around a year and half).. maybe i need more volume.. which is why i am considering the DF..

what would be ur criteria if u really wanted to step into the DF?

i totally understand what u're trying to say.. haha!

i think i was unclear of my goals from the beginning.. i want to concentrate on the BIG 3 and get stronger on it.. i really want to bring up my numbers on these.. and i did consider about using the DF or not based on the progression rate.. perhaps i'll look into something else.. westside i feel is still far away from me as i'm not lifting anything above 400s..

any recommendations?

as of now this is what i do when i get in the gym..

day 1
squats 5x5-ramped till top set(PR day)
incline DB-negative works 4x8............... i've started to work on my bench again this week.. 5x5-ramped
rows 5x5-ramped
cable lat pulldowns
decline weighted situps with 25,35lbs plate

day 2
light squats/overhead squats/front squats/leg presses.. depends on how i feel..
military 5x5-ramped
deads 5x5-ramped(PR day)
cable lat pulldowns(depends on feel)
decline weighted situps with 25,35lbs plate

day 3
GHR/hammy work i.e. RDL/speed squats or check form(lighter weight)
incline DB-negative works 4x8............... or some pushing variant
power cleans
hypers
curls
lying tri extensions
decline weighted situps with 25,35lbs plate (if i feel like it)

what do u think?

oh.. the negatives.. something i tried out to strengthen the negative part of the bench.. like take 4-5 seconds to lower the DB and shoot up/get spotter to lift it up.. and repeat.. basically to get used to the descending part of the lift.. and get stronger on that part to handle more weight..