It is not impossible that the Lord/God Jesus Christ miraculously appears in front of the above person on his/her deathbed to Personally save him/her from hell, ala LUKE.23:43, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6, ACTS.9:5. So, it is presumptuous for you and other Calvinists to condemn anyone who is still living on this earth as not being saved from hell or not being the son of God.

At this moment in time, you and I do not really know whether we will still be keeping the faith in Jesus Christ and be truly saved from hell when we actually suffer death some years from now, especially if we keep on committing sins willfully and/or ignorantly like Martin Luther = it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
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I believe Martin Luther very likely held on to his false beliefs and teachings until he died, ie when attacked and tormented by the devil to go and drink or commit other sins, Christians should set aside the whole 10 Commandments and go and willfully/intentionally commit the sins, just to mock the devil = salvation through justification by faith gave him the self-justification to commit sins = the license-to-sin. Some Lutherans, Calvinists and other Christians follow this false Hyper-Grace teaching of Martin Luther all the way to their deaths = merrily sinning ignorantly to their deaths.

The Bible verse below commands Christians to Spirit'ually place their faith/trust in the Word of God(= including the Law of God), in order to quench all the fiery darts of the devil, ... and not by willfully committing sins, as taught by Martin Luther above.

EPHESIANS.6:16-17 = ... 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; ....
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P S - Buying non-mandatory insurance, eg life and/or health insurance, and buying lotteries, is likely a sin because doing so shows a lack of faith in God, who blesses people with a good and long life on earth for keeping His Law, and vice versa - ROMANS.2:1-12, DEUT.28, PROVERBS.1.

P P S - It is said that unbelievers on their deathbed often see and/or hear demons floating around waiting to devour them. GENESIS.3:14-19 says that Satan/demons eat dust = decaying dead human bodies = Adam/humans was cursed to die physically and return to dust.

Don't quote so many verses la, keep it short, that doesn't make you sounds right. Jesus said those who not believe will go to hell so what's your take for that? Be liberal? Do charity like many groups alrdy did? I want to stop this right here, stop reply pls. You're not getting the points.

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Seems, some people are averse to seeing many Bible verses or the Word of God.
....... Loving God with all your heart, soul and mind = loving the Word(= Bible verses) with all your heart, soul and mind, because Jesus Christ is God-in-the-flesh and is the Word - JOHN.1:1 & 14, 1TIMOTHY.3:16, ISAIAH.9:6.
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Yes, that's what the Word/Bible says but only God knows who are the actual ones going to hell whose names are not written in the Book of Life(REV.20:15). You or I or John Calvin or Martin Luther or the Pope do not know the actual names of those not written or are written in the Book of Life, except those already revealed in the Bible as are written, eg Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, Moses, beggar Lazarus, the young Jewish robber at LUKE.23:43, the 12 apostles, Stephen and a few others = mostly faithful Jews and Jewish Christians.
....... Seems, some Christians today would like to be the Judge of this by sitting on the throne of God, especially Calvinist predestinationists..

How to stop reply if you keep asking me questions.? Stop question pls.
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REV.20:12-15 (NKJV) = 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

if u don't believe go to hell, that's in the bible.

JOHN.3:14-21 (NKJV) = 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
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Believe in Jesus Christ for our salvation entails us also believing in the Word/Bible because Jesus Christ is God-in-the-flesh and is the Word or is the Word of God - JOHN.1:1 & 14, 1TIM.3:16, ISA.9:6.
....... God speaking to His prophets in the Old Testament is the same as Jesus Christ speaking to His apostles in the New Testament.

Martin Luther setting aside the Decalogue/10 Commandments and willfully breaking them when attacked and tormented by the devil, meant that he had stopped believing in the Word or Jesus Christ. This goes for all his followers who similarly broke the commandments/laws/Word of God when attacked and tormented by the devil..

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JOHN.15:5-8 = 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

[B]JOHN.6:63-64 = 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”

Thanks Lurkingaround for the reply,

I am making a comparison between Quran and Bible regarding description of the heaven.

My study covers the aspects below:

First, to establish the authority of the sources regarding the issue

2nd, the descriptions of the heaven in the both sources

3rd, comparing the both descriptions

noted: my English not very good, still try to improve it.

Regarding the first one, I have a Quran as a primer reference, then the hadith as a secunder ref, in order to have more detail description and elaboration from the primer reference.

I really appreciate if you may help me to find the ref. in Christianity and the authority of the reference.

I am not sure regarding my post here is it suitable or not? hopefully it is not cause any disturbance for the members here, or it should have it own thread, I am not very familiar with the forum because rarely use it. Anyways, thanks for the reply from the brothers

1) since when Khai92 decided to post here too?

2) concerning the many "new" posters and some of the subject matter, we had better be wise as serpents and innocent as doves

Good day to you all.

If a man does not provide for his own, even of his own household, he has denied the faith, and is worse off than infidel.

Q1. To whom does Paul refer to when he says 'his own', 'his own household'?
Q2. Why does not providing for one's own translate to rejecting Christ?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Oct 8 2019, 09:01 AM

2) True. It is against Malaysian Law for a non-Muslim to proselytize to a Muslim. Ignorance of the Law is no excuse.
....... In Malaysia and most other Muslim countries, it is up to the concerned Muslims themselves to find out more about other religions = they do not really need the non-Muslims' help. If they really and desperately need help, they can move to a non-Muslim country. It's like people should not spoon-feed a normal capable adult person.

MATTHEW.22:21 (NKJV) = And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

Only when our salvation is at stake, should we disobey Caesar or our government(= obey God instead), eg if our government requires us to renounce God/Christ or break the non-burdensome laws/commandments of God, like the 10 Commandments.

Also, only when our government has become a terror to good works (= an oppressive tyrant and excessively corrupt government), should it be overthrown by popular votes or mass revolt/protests, ie Christians can participate in such votes or revolt/protests, ie when our government has become the opposite of the goodly God-appointed government at ROMANS.13:1-7.

Good day.

It has always been the choice/will of God to save us, but that choice is up to the individual to receive.

Even in the context of pre-destination, it always have been God's intent and desire to have laid out Salvation plan before the foundation of the world and YET we still need to make that conscious decision to receive Him.

I don't think God control our will or force conditions in a person's life making him saved for sure.

I think this is where we are missing it in the argument of pre-destination.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 8 2019, 10:43 AM

q1. Own family member, own brethren

q2. If you're able to help then I think should help. If you can't and in need, then just do whatever you can. If one does not help own family or brethren in need, we never fully understand what it means to love.

I have a question to ask.

What if a person has Alzheimer or has some kind of disability in the mind, how can that person be saved?

If he believed before the alzheimer then he's saved. We can ask tougher question: what happens to babies or kids who haven't have the ability to believ but died? Only God knows.

Kids have special place according to God's word.

I'm asking after not before.

That is a very good question Unknown Warrior.

I reckon one can be saved under such circumstances, provided one is baptised first and with our prayers together with the prayers of our brethren, whom are already in the Kingdom of Heaven interceeding on the person's behalf.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 8 2019, 12:46 PM

Perhaps that is the Catholic's doctrine but I'm wondering where the Bible says something about the confession of the mouth.


Romans 10:10 (KJV) - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Infant baptism is not biblical.

Let us not go at each other though we may disagree on Catholic doctrine.

Roman Catholic has been quite friendly with all of us since last Christian Fellowship.