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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 15

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alexkos
post Oct 8 2019, 12:59 PM

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Q. If salvation is by grace alone, i.e., none deserve it, then why is it up to the choice of man to receive it, as if God needs our permission to save us?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Oct 8 2019, 12:59 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 8 2019, 12:59 PM)
Q. If salvation is by grace alone, i.e., none deserve it, then why is it up to the choice of man to receive it, as if God needs our permission to save us?
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I think has very much to do with the matter of free will.

I would be bold enough to say God didn't create us without giving us the will to decide.

The evidence of why I say this? Adam & Eve fell.




Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 01:05 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 8 2019, 12:47 PM)
Perhaps that is the Catholic's doctrine but I'm wondering where the Bible says something about the confession of the mouth.
Romans 10:10 (KJV) - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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I am definately not an expert in Catholic doctrine but intercession is clearly found in scriptures. However the initial question was related to a sickness of an unsound mind, right ? Confession from an unsound mind, now that I've never experienced before.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 01:05 PM)
I am definately not an expert in Catholic doctrine but intercession is clearly found in scriptures. However the initial question was related to a sickness of an unsound mind, right ? Confession from an unsound mind, now that I've never experienced before.
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Perhaps you can imagine....if one has parents or grand parents or any relative who are not saved but has this mind disability.

How lah? I've been praying on this.



Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 01:15 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 8 2019, 01:08 PM)
Perhaps you can imagine....if one has parents or grand parents or any relative who are not saved but has this mind disability.

How lah? I've been praying on this.
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It is possible bro., for everything is possible for the one who believes.

I remember fighting the evil spirit before with our Lord's Prayer and verses in the Holy Bible only and that took a solid 3/4 of a hour to finish. However the subsequent exorcisms was completed on a shorter time frame as I called upon everyone I could think of in heaven. Thank goodness everyone replied. 😊

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 8 2019, 01:17 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 01:15 PM)
It is possible bro., for everything is possible for the one who believes.

I remember fighting the evil spirit before with our Lord's Prayer and verses in the Holy Bible only and that took a solid 3/4 of a hour to finish. However the subsequent exorcisms was completed on a shorter time frame as I called upon everyone I could think of in heaven. Thank goodness everyone replied. 😊
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??? but that is exorcism. Different scenario.
SUSazriqii
post Oct 8 2019, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 8 2019, 12:57 PM)
Let us not go at each other though we may disagree on Catholic doctrine.

Roman Catholic has been quite friendly with all of us since last Christian Fellowship.
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Anglican also practice infant baptisms, im not against roman Catholic.
SUSazriqii
post Oct 8 2019, 01:24 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 01:15 PM)
It is possible bro., for everything is possible for the one who believes.

I remember fighting the evil spirit before with our Lord's Prayer and verses in the Holy Bible only and that took a solid 3/4 of a hour to finish. However the subsequent exorcisms was completed on a shorter time frame as I called upon everyone I could think of in heaven. Thank goodness everyone replied. 😊
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Like who? Paul, Peter etc? I thought call on Jesus is enough?
alexkos
post Oct 8 2019, 01:33 PM

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Q. Is God who is the creator of the universe knows the ending of the story, including the salvation of His elect?
Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 01:24 PM)
Like who? Paul, Peter etc? I thought call on Jesus is enough?
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Calling on our Lord Jesus Christ would suffice definately but battling with such forces is very very taxing & tiring. I was completely drained after the 1st round.

Might as well call in the calvary, I thought. Definately the Archangels was called upon and every holy brethren whom I personally know of, that has gone ahead of us. Oooppps I am sure I missed out St. Peter & St. Paul.
Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 8 2019, 01:21 PM)
???  but that is exorcism. Different scenario.
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The scenario is different but the principles are the same. 😊
SUSazriqii
post Oct 8 2019, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 01:48 PM)
Calling on our Lord Jesus Christ would suffice definately but battling with such forces is very very taxing & tiring. I was completely drained after the 1st round.

Might as well call in the calvary, I thought. Definately the Archangels was called upon and every holy brethren whom I personally know of, that has gone ahead of us. Oooppps I am sure I missed out St. Peter & St. Paul.
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Feel weird to me, as I'm not a roman Catholic.
yeeck
post Oct 8 2019, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 12:55 PM)
Infant baptism is not biblical.
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Yes, infant baptism is Biblical. While there is no description of an individual infant being baptized, the Bible describes five separate household baptisms:

The Household of Cornelius, Acts 11:13–14: Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.
The Household of Lydia, Acts 16:15: And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, ‘If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.’ So she persuaded us.
The Philippian Jailor’s Household, Acts 16:33: And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
The Household of Crispus, Acts 18:8: Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.
The Household of Stephanas, 1 Corinthians 1:16: Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.
Some have argued that while the Bible may say ‘household’ or ‘family’ this does not have to include children. Maybe those households did not include children. While this may be the case, it is hard to imagine that at least one of these households did not include children. And given the fact that we have five explicit references to a whole household being baptized, we have to assume that many, many more such households were baptized. Surely some of them included children.

The word ‘household’ for any Israelite of the day included everybody in the household, children included. We must remember that a household always included children throughout the Scriptures. Every time God established or spoke about His covenant with the House of Israel, it included the whole of Israel: men, women, and children. Noah’s whole ‘household’ was taken into the ark with him (Genesis 7:1); Abraham had his whole household circumcised (Genesis 17:23), and specifically his son Isaac when he was eight days old (Genesis 21:4); the whole household of every family was taken out of Egypt, and God’s institution of the Passover specifically included the children (Exodus 12:24–28). If the Apostles had taught that children were to be excluded from full inclusion in the covenant, such an innovation would not have fit the prophetic covenants which preceded the fulfilled covenant enacted through Christ.
Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 12:55 PM)
Infant baptism is not biblical.
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It is ok, Unknown Warrior.

Yup you are right azriqii, that is in not biblical in that, it was not expressed explicitly. However it can be implied, can it not ? 😊

I do not know about your experiences with other faiths, but lets look at other communities of different faiths. Can you see the differences between our baptised young ones and their young ones ?

I am forever grateful to our Lord Jesus Christ for He Himself promises and gives us every Christian His Spirit, His Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truths, so that we can "see" while to others outside, they may look and look but never see. King Solomon desire for wisdom is what we, as Christians, must try to emulate.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 8 2019, 02:12 PM
SUSazriqii
post Oct 8 2019, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 8 2019, 02:07 PM)
Yes, infant baptism is Biblical. While there is no description of an individual infant being baptized, the Bible describes five separate household baptisms:

The Household of Cornelius, Acts 11:13–14: Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.
The Household of Lydia, Acts 16:15: And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, ‘If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.’ So she persuaded us.
The Philippian Jailor’s Household, Acts 16:33: And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
The Household of Crispus, Acts 18:8: Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.
The Household of Stephanas, 1 Corinthians 1:16: Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.
Some have argued that while the Bible may say ‘household’ or ‘family’ this does not have to include children. Maybe those households did not include children. While this may be the case, it is hard to imagine that at least one of these households did not include children. And given the fact that we have five explicit references to a whole household being baptized, we have to assume that many, many more such households were baptized. Surely some of them included children.

The word ‘household’ for any Israelite of the day included everybody in the household, children included. We must remember that a household always included children throughout the Scriptures. Every time God established or spoke about His covenant with the House of Israel, it included the whole of Israel: men, women, and children. Noah’s whole ‘household’ was taken into the ark with him (Genesis 7:1); Abraham had his whole household circumcised (Genesis 17:23), and specifically his son Isaac when he was eight days old (Genesis 21:4); the whole household of every family was taken out of Egypt, and God’s institution of the Passover specifically included the children (Exodus 12:24–28). If the Apostles had taught that children were to be excluded from full inclusion in the covenant, such an innovation would not have fit the prophetic covenants which preceded the fulfilled covenant enacted through Christ.
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Baptism is the act of public confession or proclamation. When you baptise baby you sure in the future he or she is a Christian?
SUSazriqii
post Oct 8 2019, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 02:09 PM)
It is ok, Unknown Warrior.

Yup you are right azriqii, that is in not biblical in that, it was not expressed explicitly. However it can be implied, can it not ? 😊

I do not know about your experiences with other faiths, but lets look at other communities of different faiths. Can you see the differences between our baptised young ones and their infant or children ?

I am forever grateful to our Lord Jesus Christ for He Himself promises and gives us every Christian His Spirit, His Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truths, so that we can "see" while to others outside, they may look and look but never see. King Solomon desire for wisdom is what we, as Christians, must try to emulate.
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Refer to my reply above
pehkay
post Oct 8 2019, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 8 2019, 01:33 PM)
Q. Is God who is the creator of the universe knows the ending of the story, including the salvation of His elect?
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Well. that is classic meaning of being omniscient and existing outside of time.
yeeck
post Oct 8 2019, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 02:11 PM)
Baptism is the act of public confession or proclamation. When you baptise baby you sure in the future he or she is a Christian?
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Is that the same question for the Jews of the OT too when it comes to circumcision? I think that definition is a Protestant invention. Baptism is the regeneration of the soul and washing it of all sin, original and actual, born again in water and Spirit.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 8 2019, 02:15 PM
Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 02:11 PM)
Baptism is the act of public confession or proclamation. When you baptise baby you sure in the future he or she is a Christian?
*
Well azriqii you are correct baptism is act of public confession repentance from turning from our sins and turning towards God. This is strictly should be for matured adults.

Ok here in simple words if I recall the writings in old Catechism books correctly, Infant Baptism is so important that it protects our young ones from the Evil One. That was what I was trying to imply.

Oh my goodness bro., when this was written "When a baby is baptized, how sure are you that that child will continue to be a Christian ?" I am sorry but reading that line alone is setting off Alarm Bells in my head, bro ! If our Lord Jesus Christ is really so important to us, do you not think that it even more important to teach to our young ones why our Lord is so important to us, that they should never leave home without Him ?

I read somewhere that our Jewish brethren takes their faith so seriously that by the time their children reaches a certain age, they would have memorized the Torah and all other customary rules & regulations by heart !

I thank God everyday for a lovely God-daughter, though she's not of my own flesh and blood and I pray to God on how to guide her so that when the time comes she too will form a relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. She has no other choice.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 8 2019, 02:38 PM
yeeck
post Oct 8 2019, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 02:21 PM)
Well azriqii you are correct baptism is act of public confession  repentance from turning from our sins and turning towards God. This is strictly should be for matured adults.

Ok here in simple words if I recall the writings in old Catechism books correctly, Infant Baptism is so important that it protects our young ones from the Evil One. That was what I was trying to imply.

Wait
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Adult baptism has the public declaration by the person being baptised yes. For infant baptism, the declaration is done on their behalf by their sponsor (godparent).

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