Thanks. Didn't know that

But 100% capital + 2.5% min div guaranteed wor... and historically better than fd wor...

For those that kept saying put money overseas.......where do you put the money ( apart from in the bank ) in overseas?

This post has been edited by pillage2001: Oct 12 2022, 03:33 PM

3/4 of assets in MY is actually a good thing... and also remaining 1/4 in gomen debt i also a good thing as most of the debts is also denominated in MYR. Risks to EPF is less actually.


Put in banks, bank runs can happen when bank collapse.Ability not to remove money is possible as it's already happening in CCPland and US noow.


Put in EPF, i stiil see it as way less risk as compared to the above as it's our country's sovereign pension fund. The impact to government and country is far higher if EPF folds as compared to banks. Just loook at how BOE stepped in to save their country's pencen funds when it was in trouble recently. Most verry verry likely malaysia will do the same.

On inflation part, can't be helped... a few major country WILL go into recession next year. As long as printing money is not excessive till it creates a feedback loop to bail out entities and print more money, we should be still fine compared to others.

First lesson is never just leave money into overseas banks or just overseas FD.
Make them work you to earn foreign currency.

Depend on individual and their style of investing.

If you want to invest for income (money coming into your account every few months)
Buy sreits. They can match EPF return and earn you an increase 1-2%p.a and majority of them payout in SGD.
Some quality reits are going at 6.1% and 5.7% respectively.
Downside of investing in sreits is they will ask you for money somewhere down the road. It's inevitable.

Sg banks is also another good place currently yielding 4.3% but growing at conservative 7-8%p.a which means in 10years+ it will give almost 8%p.a on yield on cost (rule of 72)

If you want super safe go with ETF investing. Either sp500 or qqq. Long term wise 8-9%p.a. I recommend QQQ over sp500 as QQQ have more high quality companies.

If you are like me, pick the best high quality stocks from sp500 and qqq, buy and hold them. This method is better than ETF as you don't get the rubbish companies that come with the ETF like Boeing, IBM. GE, ford. Intel. You pick an choose which companies you want to hold.

Hope that helps.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 12 2022, 03:53 PM

Er you need to see how deep pockets BOE have Vs our BNM. BNM does not have deep pockets. So.ethinh you need to keep in mind.

Don't believe me? See the 1mdb saga. They cannot even defend the RM then.

When SHTF happens, point to not to defend the RM, . All country will stop exports and economy will self isolate back within their own country. Then slowly economic ties within countries will rebuild again and hope then trading will be denominated by a proper reserve currency and not the US dollar.

This is where i feel we are heading now.

If the BRICs nations comes out with their basket of currencies that is supported by gold and a variety basket of commodities, this is where most my money would be at then. Till this happens (hopefully next year, as FEDs would be coming up with their CBDC sometime Q3 2023 , BRICS nation have to implement it fast as well), my money will rest in what i think the least riskiest place.

Ok. We will see if they go that route. They got their own mess to settle with anyway.

That's fair. In the worst case, BNM can just print money to top up your EPF (in fact they are already doing that now, but to fund government expenses via EPF as middleman, according to local fund manager source whom I should not quote). I was just pointing out some of the possible issues.

And err, 2.5% p.a. minimum has strings attached it, if you read the act carefully.

https://www.kwsp.gov.my/en/about-epf/news-h...es/epf-act-1991



Just make sure you care about real returns, not nominal ones. Purchasing power is important.

Bro, how can you make this mistake as well? You are sifu ooo... Past results are no indicator of future performance.

Your kiasu kiasi friend has a different idea. Their GIC invests worldwide and diversify CPF holder's investments across different classes and have different currencies exposure.

https://www.gic.com.sg/our-portfolio/

https://report.gic.com.sg/investment-report.html

And that is despite the fact that SGD has to appreciate over the long run due to MAS monetary policy. So getting dividends/realized capital gains back to SG will incur some 2% p.a. loses over time depending on how steep S$NEER curve rises.

--------------------------------

Depending on how you see it, risk to EPF is less if you look at nominal terms, since BNM can just print MYR to cover up the hole. But in real terms, this action will cause MYR to lose its value significantly. Your purchasing power evaporates. Your MYR "stored" in your EPF account can then "buy nothing". I don't think that's what a retiree expect when he withdraws his "retirement savings".

Always remember, it's real returns that matter in the end. You want your purchasing power to be protected throughout your working ages and possibly earn a risk premium on top of that with risk assets in a well-diversified portfolio.

lol UK pension funds that are affected by LDI are mostly defined benefit plans. EPF doesn't have defined benefit plans (ours is called defined contribution plan, you contribute a portion of your salary to your pensions). I don't think EPF has used LDI strategy as of now unless the government starts to shift to some form of minimum payout guaranteed which carries some elements of defined benefit at its minmum.

In fact, the LDI crisis in the UK illustrates what happened when funds hold lots of government treasury bills, notes or bonds in its portfolio. A surging government bond yields force the pension funds to top up their collateral against their LDI counterparty, but they don't have so much cash in a matter of few hours, which in turns means they have to liquidate more gilts to bring down the margin, causing more funds to sell even more gilts to fulfill their collateral/margin requirements. Imagine 1/4 of MGS/GII issued held in the hands of EPF and if EPF has to do this...

Hope that helps.

I can see that you really like Malaysia a lot and is a strong supporter of MY's pension system. EPF is actually a good vehicle judging by the system as it allows for lots of flexibility (compared to the stupid HK MPF system...), but well, no match to my favourite CPF

I respect your view anyway, you got some valid points there.

This post has been edited by TOS: Oct 12 2022, 05:19 PM

they say don't put all eggs in one basket... so...

1. savings basket = epf
2. investing basket = stocks n whatnot
3. gambling basket = genting, forex n crypto



as for nominal vs real terms... my simple assumption for epf is div matches cpi/inflation... so no lost no gain...

my financial planning is that I don't need the epf money after retirement

unfortunately wifey wanted big house... so epf money now reserved for mortgage...

need some advise
i dont have an epf account. plan to open one soon.

i am in freelance
/
so after open can i dump on rm60k this year and rm100k on jan 2023? just dump in s self contribution?

This post has been edited by eddyooi: Oct 12 2022, 08:23 PM

Need to have kwsp account first, ...

If you're self-employed, a housewife, or a freelancer, you can also register for EPF and receive its benefits
https://says.com/my/lifestyle/epf-member-benefits

Before you dump your 60k + 100k, .... hv some considerations of its withdrawal criteria when just incase you need to use that 160k

Few questions you need to ask yourself.
1. Do you wand the tax relief or you do want to go beyond tax relief.
-if you want tax relief, I believe rm4k+3k (next year got additional rm3k) enough.
-if you want for long term retirement then yes. Dump in RM60k.

2. Second question see back previous post. How confident are you of Malaysia and the Malaysia currency say 20-30 years later?
-if you are confident, by all means go ahead
-if you are not, follow the examples I listed above.

TOS CPF sucks. So complicated the rules. Our EPF better. Clear cut. Only issue is RM and Malaysia.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 12 2022, 11:02 PM

Malaysia cheap place to retire ah... especially if you earned foreign income/profit...

but yeah job market sucks... and gov sucks even more...

Ramjade and I may not agree on certain things, but he understands what I am saying about hedging at least.

I am not saying to bet ON or AGAINST Malaysia economy, monetary and fiscal policies btw. I am merely saying you guys should at least put your hard earned $ in different places to not be ruined totally when Putrajaya screws up.

You should factor in the risk at the tail end. If so many countries can hyperinflate, or see their currency plummet so hard like GBP JPY, what makes you think Malaysia will never screw up in coming decades until your retirement?

For me, I got no choice to be pessimistic against Malaysia cause 20 years of lousy track record and no improvement.
It's like a company. You already give it 5 years for it to turn around but still it cannot turn around. You hold or you add more or you sell? Same concept here.

Not to mention our neighbours Vietnam, Indonesia have improve a lot and may have overtaken us.

everything is just so uncertain the world these days.



This post has been edited by Chrono-Trigger: Oct 13 2022, 11:04 AM

You may want to consider some open ended capital preserved bond fund.
Our bank currently offer some USD & MYR bond fund with a rate of ranging 5-8%p.a.

Money would be keeping offshore and is regulated under Malaysia authority which can be cross checked by anyone.
Welcome PM to know more if you are interested.

If you aint scamming, you wont need people to PM you.

Why not buka thread and share websites, prospectus, fact sheets for us to see?

https://apdib.com/