we have PAS , do you really think u could separate religion from gahmen in Malaysia?

btw what church u going to ? im sure i can dig up some scandal in there. Most churches have their "hidden sins", but I thought the religion preach about grace and forgiveness and yet you tell me you still hold man accountable for God's judgment ?

A church in Subang Jaya. Next to UCSI school.

Lets just put it this way. A church is supposed to be a place of worship nothing more. They are not supposed to run a church like a freaking business.

If u step inside collective kl, theres a futsal court which is open to public, theres a cafe, and they even rent out their lobby space for events.

Yes donations to church are acceptable. But the fact is they run this church like a business establishment. Thats why ppl are not so comfortable with it.

Careful..they don’t like criticism. Got lipoted liao..sigh

That why they lose the election, That simple? how he received the money, who know? may be he just using his relative account or such
I start to curious, you probably don't understand my question

I said Collective KL churches must not put Kong Hee name and his wife Sun on the website, should not show gratitude to both scammer. This is like praising the bad guy like Hitler, who kills 6 million

I hope the follower here stop twist the story around. If you are sincere and faithful christian, you should inform the church remove the scammer name, not here to twist my words; I guess this is the main reason why the huge decline of Christianity happened in the US, UK or Europe, because the follower is not rational we talk A, they answer B

faith is faith, bad people is bad people. The follower must not blindly protect the scammer

willing donor, willing receiver.
what's scamming about that?

should we judge them or let God judge them ?

I dont think they care about the few ringgit they earn from renting out the space. How much can the cafe earn anyway if traffic is only on weekends. Its meant to be a community centre.

waiting for trigger

do you remember planetshakers had mike gugliemucci scandal , or right now Hillsongs has the Ps Houston scandal, even then will you stop listening to their music bcos of 1 bad apple ?

Amazing only in Malaysia they use music to "recruit" new followers.. Cos they realize, the younger generation can only be "roped in" by music. How sad Christianity has become. It's more like running a business these days.

Then once they rope you in, they pressure you into paying 10% of your salary. If you don't contribute, you won't receive blessings in the future in your life or you don't love Jesus enough.

Then after you keep paying, now it's your duty to recruit others to "save them" when judgement day comes.

Rinse and repeat.

Just hope Collective isn't one of these new breed of churches with the above attributes.

churches have been around for ages and nothing has changed about them. they are utilized by people to manipulate others for own personal gains.

i have yet to see a really impartial church that doesn't focus around "monies".

U are mad. Do u know how much they renting out their space?

I have seen Mini doing a car launch there b4.

They rent out 10-20k for a few hours event.

Their cafe is a proper cafe with full equipment setup for example proper espresso machine and full array of cakes etc. Its like a proper cafe u see outside. They make alot since the stuff is not cheap as well. And there is always ppl in the cafe.

Its called grey sky morning. Go google. Btw, they even have a barber as well. But not sure if still running.

"They are not supposed to run a church like a business"
and
"They should not engage in business activities"
and
"They should not engage in ANY business activities AT ALL"

are 3 very different things. I'm going to talk about point 1 in relation to the cafe.

The facilities in the church are mainly for their own use. You know I know that hardly anyone will come into the church just to drink coffee. Obviously there has to be a charge for the usage of the facilities/consumption of the goods. Anybody who runs F&B will know that the cafe is unlikely to be profitable.

It's a very far step from having a designated, essentially subsidised cafe, to "running a church like a business". That's something else entirely.

The "event space" will be similar, and again for similar reasons. Usually events are going to be held by fellow Christian organisations.

What are the alternatives? Well e.g. my church runs a canteen on 100% donation basis, where someone just tops up the Nescafe when it runs out. I don't entirely agree with that, I believe there should be a nominal charge for the consumer. Well they are small enough that they don't feel the pinch. But if they had a congregation in the 1000s, coffee money becomes a significant amount.

You twisted the whole thing to suit your own views.

TS attitude is must black out their name entirely, like the emperors of ancient kingdoms did to traitors

anyway congrats TS, you have successfully attracted the church-hating denizens of /k, since this is going to be a bashing thread shortly I'll be seeing myself out

indeed, the same can be said for any religion, any philosophy, any cause

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 10:28 AM

Ok, assume you are right. What is wrong with enterprise?

Church is like temple or mosque, definetely you can donate accordingly
However, the pastor should not spend church money' for personal luxury lifestyle, this is why the Singapore government sends them to jail
As a Malaysian we should fully aware of the church Kong Hee involved, and should not donate single cent to any church Kong Hee and another 6 leader involved.

And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. He said to them, "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you make it a den of robbers." And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them. But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" they were indignant, and they said to him, "Do you hear what these are saying?" And Jesus said to them, "Yes; have you never read, "'Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise'?" And leaving them, he went out of the city to Bethany and lodged there.
Matthew 21:12‭-‬17 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.21.12-17.ESV

The scamming is in the teachings. Prosperity gospel. Fakery