I guess my wife is telling me an old man like me shouldn't go talking with younger people and that i should be talking with people my age. What she doesn't know is that i have picked up a lot of things in LYN which will prove useful when i go back to KL to retire. Some of the things/tips that are expressed in this forum are actually very useful to me as i am living overseas and have not much clue about living long-term in Msia.

For the young man and woman who have set their mind on FIRE, I would like to throw you guys and girls a bigger picture :

1. Retiring early at age 40 sounds nice.

2. But if you think beyond yourself, your plan has a significant impact on the economy, society and human advancement. Sounds exaggerating ?

3. In economics, RE means a person does not contribute to the production of GDP anymore. He no longer is a net contributor to the economy

4. He is now a net consumer of scarce resources of the economy

5. An economy needs new blood to support the old and young people. That’s why countries with aging population face economic issues (eg Japan). If everybody retires at 40s, the economy will collapse. Just imagine 50% of the population are retirees, with the other 50% produce necessities for everyone else.

6. If you don’t understand in macro-economics terms, then think of it from the taxation point of view. When more people retire early, the tax revenue of a country will reduce. If a country has less income, the economy as a whole will suffer. The government cannot afford public services and the society will be in chaos

7. We all know our EPF is a quasi-ponzi scheme. If there are no new contributors, it will collapse. Remember those who retire at age 40 still have 15 years to go before they can dip into their retirement pot

8. From science progression point of view, people in the mid-40s are at their prime, most productive and most knowledgable. If all scientists have the same FIRE mindset, mankind won’t achieve what we achieved today. There will be very few inventions

9. If the seniors in work place retire early, the juniors may not be able to learn the trade in the most efficient manner.

10. RE is a selfish act. You enjoy the education provided to you for first 20 years. Bear in mind education are paid for by taxes from your predecessors who work hard. If they RE, taxes will drop, and you will not be able to enjoy the free education

11. After you graduate, you learn the skills from experienced seniors who don't retire early. You add value to yourself and progress through the corporate ladder and make more money

12. But when you reach 40 y/o, you have made enough money to retire and say bye bye

13. Instead of giving back to your country/society, you leave them and enjoy your personal lives. Younger generation will suffer

14. And when you become older and weaker 30 years later, you consume the resources and become a burden to the society.

RE at 40 years old is too early. If you have this mindset, you are a selfish person in the big picture. Work at least to the official retirement age. The country/society/younger generation needs you. Give back and contribute your part so that both the generations before and after you can enjoy the benefit you have enjoyed.

Not sure how to live with 2k per month in KL. 2k properly only for 3 simple meal daily and normal utility and assessment bills and public transportation. I think minimum 2.5k - 3k more likely.

you are right.

To be really FI/RE at a young age of 45 and below, you would need much more if you are married with several children still in school/college.

Those, me inclusive, who were talking about retiring a few years earlier than the mandatory retirement age were talking about retirement in general.

To be really FI/RE, I don't think working part time or having a business that doesn't require your presence all the time counts as 'retirement'.

FI/RE is possible if your spouse is working!

To be really FI/RE at a young age of 45 and below, you would need much more if you are married with several children still in school/college.

Those, me inclusive, who were talking about retiring a few years earlier than the mandatory retirement age were talking about retirement in general.

To be really FI/RE, I don't think working part time or having a business that doesn't require your presence all the time counts as 'retirement'.

FI/RE is possible if your spouse is working!

It is very hard to get old-aged pension now if you have hidden your assets overseas. The govt is getting very smart nowadays because they are aware a lot of Honkies and PRCs have assets overseas and claiming full pension. It used to be easy to get the full pension because the govt didn't really care but they have definitely tighten their cross-checking with other jurisdiction/countries in the last couple of years.

My Honkie colleague was already teaching me (move assets overseas) this 25 years ago - she would be nearly 75 years old now after taking redundancy about 10 years ago. Just goes to show how their minds worked - i never even thought about it and they were already planning it years before!!

I guess my wife is telling me an old man like me shouldn't go talking with younger people and that i should be talking with people my age. What she doesn't know is that i have picked up a lot of things in LYN which will prove useful when i go back to KL to retire. Some of the things/tips that are expressed in this forum are actually very useful to me as i am living overseas and have not much clue about living long-term in Msia.

When enough people retire early i.e leave work force, those remaining in the work force could and will demand for higher price for their services i.e inflation will rise. Some or many of those retired may be forced to return to work.

In practice, without state sponsored education and welfare, few with children could truly fi/re

Sorry but I guess lots of ppl had misunderstand / disagreement / bias on RE part. Many had take the stand that RE is equivalent to normal retirement post 55 or 60 years olds where ppl only "makan, tidur dan main". Well, if you looks more carefully, especially from angmo blogger, many of them effective transit into another type of works (something meaningful to their believe) instead of corporate 9-5 job. Thus, i can't agreed on all the points above as the very fundamental view on FI/RE is different; but I'm really feel RE (retirement early) is a misleading terminology.

Besides, we had to admit that not everyone can archive FI, and among these ppl, not all of them can resist the greed and move on to RE. Anyhow, the world is huge enough to accept these diversity, similiar to religion & races. Thus, many points wont's happened as not every can FI/RE, and affect the whole economy eventually, similar to you can't expect ALL smoker stop smoking as all of us knew is not good for health. I guess you were old enough appreciate this is not a perfect world.

One the other hand, if one success reached his FI at 40 and break away from his corporate minion job could due to his prioity on health/family or being forced i.e:layoff. His still contributing in other forms, eg: funding for business via investment/stock/etc, spend more focus and raise their kids be a better person, charity works, or even writing an self-help book etc. Would you agreed these are much better than those still works but on sin industries related to gambling, human or weapon trafficker, drug dealer, etc?

FI essentially is an enablement on finacially wise to allow someone move to next stage. while RE part is one trying find a new balance of his life. So long this new balance is not hurting anyone, we shouldnt' take any prejudicement on it.

Many breakthru and innovation mainly from "passionated" scientist, and these ppl unlikely take RE as their passion and purpose is what they doing in their dayjob. FI is just meant there is no financial stress for them. Unfortunately, in corporate world, most of corporate minion are soulless and all these cog are replaceable when it needed. Furthermore, some new youngester not neccessary value their senior opinion, and corporate life is getting worse due to ever demanding and constant changes. Afterall, the manager, senior manager or even CEO just another cog.

The newly implemented AEOI under CRS, means every participant country has greater access to overseas info.

After someone achieved FI and choose to quit from his/her 9-5jobs, he/she will have a lot of freedom in term of time.

To not be SELFISH as someone said, use that time to participate in volunteering, giving back in term of you knowledge to your University, spend more times to take care of your parents or with your kids.

Also you can choose to work what you like or part time which will eventually needs to pay income tax to government. (Tutor/lecturer, financial consultant, unit trust consultant, or Real Estate Negotiator). Selling enough products to many people will have you to pay tax maybe more than someone who still on his/her 9-5jobs.

My opinions.

I am the opposite 

In real life, I am the most senior in the family. So when I meet my family, the juniors only dare to speak nice words out of respect. Typical asian culture.

While in my company, my staff only talked business to me. There is a certain fear towards their boss. So, not many people dare to point out my mistake except those very senior staff (I consider them as my partner)

Only in forum, everybody doesn't know everybody. We are all equal. So everybody speaks truth and give their unreserved opinion. That's why there are much to be learned from a forum. I always keep an opened mind. And speak out unreservedly my opinion without fear of being termed undiplomatic. In real life, we cannot speak our mind and must stick with politically correct statement

3. That's if you use govt related stuff. If not? Is out of your own pocket.

5. True. But how many can afford to retire early if they spend > what they earn?  Saving is hard and spending is easy. Guess how many will choose the easy way? 

10. You are already working hard your life, why should you not reward yourself after all the hard work? Family come first over work/country.

13. Well is their choice whether they want to work their way towards self sustainability or they want to work their way by becoming slaves to the banks/countries.
I know what I prefer.

14. Not if you keep in good health.

Sorry if I don't reply all but you get my idea.

My wife keeps her money separately from me and even though she is Msian, people (esp women) change after living in Aust for a while. She likes to give her opinion and i would normally accept it if it is fair. She is not as submissive as 30 years ago.

Due to the push for women equality, a lot of govt and semi-govt jobs (very cushy job!) now have a quota whereby women must be employed to meet the 45-50% participation rate. It is probably a bit like the bumi policy but here the women is the bumi. Call it unfair or whatever for men but this is the direction that Aust is heading towards where people are employed not by merit and by gender.

Full time job = full pay = full tax = economy gets full benefit

Part time job = part pay = part tax = economy gets only part of the benefit

You are just consoling/justifying your selfishness
If you can generate more income after retired, then what makes you want to stay on your current job ? Retire now is better....

I don't think there is right or wrong if some one choose to retire early. If his/her financial situation permit then what is the issue of him/her to retire early.

In relation to the whole economy picture, I am sure there are plenty of people who are looking for full time job and they will be plenty of people to replenish the vacant post that just created. If some one wanted to contribute their time full times for charity work/raising this and raising that, who are we to say no them? Take note those charity organisation doesn't work on its own.

Jack ma is retiring at 54 which I don't thin Alibaba group is going to close down when he retired. When Steve job passed away, is Apple going away with him together?

Yes, my hypothesis is not talking about right or wrong / legal or illegal. Just like smoking. It's not illegal. It's a matter of personal choice.

But in big picture, RE is no good for the economy/society/country.

Just like smoking, it is a selfish act.

Jack Ma retires close to 55 years old. If he retires at 40 years old, Alibaba would be not as big as it is today. In fact, I would speculate that if he is a believer of FIRE, he would not be so ambitious and Alibaba would be non-existance

I don't think there is big picture or small picture, do take note that everyday there is new born baby and everyday there is some one pass away so the world is continue to move when one person choose to retire and his spot will be filled by some one it is eco balance of the whole universe.

I can't speculate whether he is believer or not because I don't him and I can't comment but basing with your logic I can say he is a believer otherwise he will continue to work till 70.

Smoking is not a selfish act, smoking is a preference for each individual. If a person smoking in front of children then I would call it selfish.