Er how about moving money out of AU. That way you get both pension and enjoy your earnings.

If is legal, do it. You already pay lots of money in form of income tax, time for govt yo pay you back the money.

Like banks. Banks are sucker/leech. Learn to suck from banks where possible.

If you feel like donating money to govt, be my guest. I don't donate money to govt and banks if I can help it. The only thing worth donating to is charity bodies or for global warming causes.

If the law clearly state amount inside the country means amount inside the country. So it does not include amount outside the country. Hence make use of such loop holes. Those are legal ways.

Why cannot?  I save > RM2k. I use the remaining cash to make sure I pay less money to govt. There's so many legal ways to pay less cash to govt and make the govt work for you.

Full time job = full pay = full tax = economy gets full benefit

Part time job = part pay = part tax = economy gets only part of the benefit

You are just consoling/justifying your selfishness
If you can generate more income after retired, then what makes you want to stay on your current job ? Retire now is better....

Yes, my hypothesis is not talking about right or wrong / legal or illegal. Just like smoking. It's not illegal. It's a matter of personal choice.

But in big picture, RE is no good for the economy/society/country.

Just like smoking, it is a selfish act.

Jack Ma retires close to 55 years old. If he retires at 40 years old, Alibaba would be not as big as it is today. In fact, I would speculate that if he is a believer of FIRE, he would not be so ambitious and Alibaba would be non-existance

In economics, the status quo is the equilibrium. Population growth rate changes will affect the equilibrium and shift to a new equilibrium. Aging population like that of Japan has brought negative effect on its economy

In my hypothesis, if FIRE becomes a trend, like aging population issue, the equilibrium will shift. The shift will have adverse effect on the economy.

Bear in mind that my hypothesis is largely based on macro-economics point of view. For those without Economics background, it might be difficult to grasp my hypothesis

So far, only my son understands what I am talking about 
Again, my hypothesis based strictly on RE before the official retirement age.

In Jack Ma’s case, he is going to retire at 55 or thereabouts, so his data is relevant in my hypothesis, ie. If he is a believer of RE, Alibaba most probably would not exist
Yes, I am referring to smoking when there are people around

You can’t be retiring and live alone and away from the society, can you ?

So, my hypothesis refers RE as a selfish act, just like smokers smoke in public

I think those with FIRE mindset are not ambitious. They are contented bunch of people

If you read back the pages, they are talking about RM2k to RM5k per month to retire.

With such small amount, capitalism failed big time.

Coming back to analogy of RE and smoking. You can see the trend of enacting laws that “preventing/discouraging” both acts. Smoking become more and more restricted. And EPF contribution/withdrawing age deferment and extending our official retirement age are being talked about more and more. It doesn’t only happen in malaysia, but all around the world
RE is a trend. And my hypothesis is coming from the Macro-Economics point of view that RE is a selfish act that if a sizeable population RE, it would have an adverse effect on the economy

Again I give you the smoking analogy. You can argue that the smokers population is very small thus the effect to the other non-smoker is negligible. But regardless of the number, smoking is a selfish act. Because it affects people around you. And when half of our population becomes smokers, then it would become a big problem.

Depends on country. In Malaysia, 55 is the official retirement age. So, any age earlier that that is early

For Australia, I think it was 67 ?

No, I am not saying the whole world have a single number. It depends on the official age of the country
Because those with FIRE mindset try very hard not to work another day if they could. They have no passion to work. Working is just for money.

Jack Ma on the other hand is a visionary. He is ambitious. He created new way of life and changed a new world.

Any proponent of FIRE here has Jack Ma’s ambition ? I don’t think so.
I am referring to my analogy of smoking vs RE.

You said that smoking is selfish in front of children.

So, when a person retires, he retires and live in a society. It will affect people around you. Unless you can retire and live in the mountain alone, then my hypothesis does not stand

And the root cause of their problem is their disliking of the job. RE is just a get around. Not the true solution

If they have a job they are passionate about, they won’t retire at all 

All in all, what I want to say is FI is a good thing. But RE is a bad thing, both personal or society/economy as a whole

Oh....I now know you don't understand what a "hypothesis" means....

Before my hypothesis raise your blood pressure further, do google and understand what a hypothesis mean 

Oh....I now know you don't understand what a "hypothesis" means....

Before my hypothesis raise your blood pressure further, do google and understand what a hypothesis mean 

My hypothesis has already clearly stated and answered your question.
AS I said, googled Japan population aging problem.
Looks like you don't understan what "hypothesis" means. Yes, you are right, it is a guess    
I never used the word "useless". I used the word "selfish" for people who retire early, according to my hypothesis

Jack Ma retires close to official retirement age. So he is not selfish
Read back my hypothesis. My hypothesis has already clearly stated and answered your question.
It's an analogy for my hypothesis. According to my hypothesis, yes, smoking in public is selfish, even if the area legally permits smoking. Same goes for RE, there is no law to say it is illegal

You start to sound immature....

I am not pointing a gun to anyone to agree with me. And I have in the beginning already highlighted it was a "hypothesis"

Of course anyone can disagree with me. Many do openly disagree with me if you read their comments 

All I can say is     

This FiRe is very personal. Depends on how one defines Fi and Re, each could end up a different and yet still reasonable answer.

For myself, I have two daughters, and a wife who likes to spend. So i have much given up on the Re part. I am planning to retire at about 67-70 depending on the financial and medical situation of the family. I am very happy with my job and i am not sure what I want to do full time. Maybe volunteering? Or scale back my current job into part time? All these questions can only be answered by myself.

For Fi, I have paid all my debts and have some money for emergency funds and long term investments. Does this meet the definition of FI? I still need to work to support my 3 dependents. If i am only single, i can Re pretty much in 4-5 more years of working.

I believe the FiRe question depends on the situation, priority and personal choices. Not many people can do FiRe nor should they.

It is by contract for 1-3 years. Contract renewal subject to performance whatever that means

Oh.....I support FI, but not RE....

I think the main reasons people set their mind to RE is plain simple --> they don't like their job.

There are many studies on the reasons, like :
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/2016/1...s/#1ad0cbb21ed9
Some are personal problems
https://www.2knowmyself.com/Why_some_people...nt_like_to_work
Many who set an early retirement target can relate one of more of the above to their job environment/personalities ?

At 40 years old, a worker is at his prime. He makes the most money at this age. He should be a senior already and well respected by the subordinates. He can contribute back to the company/society/economy/country. So much he can do.

Those who said after RE they have more time for family/charity/health/thing I like to do, are just giving excuses for failure in good time management. Those 4 things cannot be neglected at any age. They should learn how to improve on their time management instead.

If you cannot accept alternative opinion, and respect the opinion of others, it may be better you don't join any forum discussion.

By your logic, every thread in LYN forum must not be disputed. Those with alternative opinion have to take the trouble to open another thread

So far, only you are so fired up towards my opinion. Other readers seems ok and I enjoyed the matured discussion with them.

Ok ok.....to reduce your blood pressure, I put spoiler hope that would be of help to you  

Early retirement isn't about how wealthy you are, say several early retirees.
For many early retirees, the value of life during early retirement is priceless  — the happiness it brings doesn't depend on the dollar.
Instead, early retirement is about two things: time and lifestyle.
When it comes to early retirement, there's no discounting the importance of having enough money saved to retire early, but many early retirees will tell you the truth: money doesn't really matter once you get there.

Brandon of the blog Mad Fientist, who retired at age 34, previously told Business Insider he wishes he knew how "unimportant and insignificant" money would be after retiring early.

"I always thought that I would spend my early retirement doing entrepreneurial things, but now that I have enough money, doing things for the sole purpose of getting more money doesn't make sense anymore," Brandon said. "Money has been the primary motivator for my entire adult life, but now that I have enough, I've had to find new sources of motivation."

Money is so unimportant to early retirees that in hindsight, many said they wish they didn't wait so long to retire early, even if they didn't have as much money saved as they would have liked. For them, you can't put a price on the value of early retirement.

Consider John from ESI Money: after a few calculations, he realized that by retiring at 52 instead of the official retirement age of 65, he gave up $3.1 million in earnings.

But to him, it was the best $3.1 million he ever spent, for several reasons: it wouldn't have changed his lifestyle, he probably added a few extra years to his life by escaping the stress of work, and he found early retirement way more enjoyable than working.

"Imagine 13 years of life enjoyment in retirement versus 13 years of life enjoyment if I remained working — especially in the last 13 years of my career," he wrote. "What is that life enjoyment worth?"

'Money is infinite, but time is not'
The enjoyment John speaks of doesn't depend on a dollar, but instead on two other factors — time and lifestyle.

Grant Sabatier, who retired at age 30 with $1.25 million and runs the blog Millennial Money, has said financial independence has always been about time, not money. "If you view money as the goal, then you miss the point," he wrote in a post published on Business Insider. "Money is infinite, but time is not."

He explained that time becomes more valuable as we age because we have less of it left — but the concept doesn't frequently align with people's perspectives on valuing their own time or how they think about money in their lives.

"To me, early retirement simply meant having enough money so that I didn't have to worry about money and could finally follow my passions and find new passions," Sabatier wrote on Business Insider.

In addition to time, early retirement is also about your lifestyle, according to blogger Mr. Crazy Kicks, who retired at age 34. In fact, he says, an early retirement lifestyle is something you should develop while preparing to retire early.

"Instead of living in a cardboard box eating ramen to save money, one should pursue financial independence by honing a lifestyle that is based on living well for less," he wrote in a post previously published on Business Insider. "The goal is to continuously cut excess spending while building your own early retirement lifestyle that doesn't depend on tons of cash for happiness."

The key, he says, is maximizing happiness per dollar — put your money where your heart is, but get the most bang for your buck.

As Sabatier puts it, "Money only matters if it helps you live a life you love."

Most people retire during their 60s. To retire earlier than that requires planning, discipline and paying close attention to your savings and investments. But the sacrifices and extra effort are worth the trouble. Early retirement planning makes you rethink what brings you happiness and life satisfaction outside of your career and improves your financial footing. Here are eight reasons to pursue early retirement:

Address the future today. Many Americans are unprepared for retirement and may need to continue working during their 60s and beyond. A primary reason for being unprepared is a lack of planning and saving in their younger years. By setting a goal to retire early, you begin to analyze your finances and design and implement a plan to get there. The sooner you begin planning and making serious efforts to secure your retirement future, the greater your chances of achieving it. Analyzing your current financial situation and creating a plan is good at any stage of your life, but preparing for retirement gets more difficult the longer you wait to start saving.

[Read: 5 Challenges of Early Retirement.]

Increase income. Once you decide on an early retirement goal, you’ll quickly realize there’s a good chance you won’t be able to do it without spending sacrifices or extra income. Sacrifices are hard to adjust to, so many people prefer to accelerate their retirement savings. Planning for early retirement motivates workers to excel at their current job to receive promotions and raises. Some savers also seek out ways to earn money beyond their primary source of income. Extra income ideas can include a second job, side business or real estate investing.

Circumstances may require you to retire early. Not everybody retires in their desired fashion. At some point, you may not be able to work. However, when you prepare your life and finances to be able to retire early, you’ll also be better off in the case that you are forced to retire early. For example, during the recession in 2008, some older workers retired due to job loss and difficulty finding work in a pool of younger workers. Health ailments can also sideline a career, especially for workers in professions that require physical activity. Pursuing early retirement can reduce the hardship if your working years are cut short for reasons outside of your control.


Improve your relationships. Early retirees have more opportunities to spend time with people they care about. By achieving early retirement status, social activities can become priorities in your life instead of a slice of your calendar. Your spouse and family will also benefit from the added time you have to enjoy each other’s company. That’s not to say you can’t have strong relationships while you work full-time, but early retirement gives you more time to dedicate to family members. Another benefit is the ability to be available to friends and family who need help. Freedom from work requirements allows you to serve others in need, which is far more gratifying than writing status reports.

[Read: The New Target Retirement Age: 66.]

Travel. Vacations from work are rarely long enough. Travel is best when it’s unrestricted by time. Early retirement allows for extended travel, which is difficult to schedule when you’re employed full-time. It also helps to prevent age from being a limiting factor in your travel decisions. Plan a month or two in an intriguing city, volunteer in a recent disaster region or travel by land through multiple countries. When your time allotments are less restricted, the opportunities to explore are more abundant. Extended visits will make you appreciate each destination more thoroughly than a quick tour stop.

Prioritize your health. Commuting, work travel and firm time commitments are consequences of a full-time career. When you’re working full-time, exercise tends to be secondary to the rest of your daily responsibilities. Sitting most of the day in a chair is inherently unhealthy, while the constant temptation of office treats is a detriment to healthy eating decisions. Good health is perhaps our most important asset. When you retire early, you can prioritize your health while you’re still relatively young, allowing you to improve your overall well-being and potentially extend your longevity.

Lower consumption and spending. One of the most effective strategies for retiring early is lowering your annual cost of living. A lower cost of living requires a smaller retirement nest egg, enabling you to stop full-time work earlier. A secondary benefit of reducing your costs is becoming more conscious of your consumption and spending decisions. Smarter consumption habits are better for your pocketbook and reduce your global footprint.

Depends on country. In Malaysia, 55 is the official retirement age. So, any age earlier that that is early

For Australia, I think it was 67 ?

No, I am not saying the whole world have a single number. It depends on the official age of the country
Because those with FIRE mindset try very hard not to work another day if they could. They have no passion to work. Working is just for money.

Jack Ma on the other hand is a visionary. He is ambitious. He created new way of life and changed a new world.

Any proponent of FIRE here has Jack Ma’s ambition ? I don’t think so.
I am referring to my analogy of smoking vs RE.

You said that smoking is selfish in front of children.

So, when a person retires, he retires and live in a society. It will affect people around you. Unless you can retire and live in the mountain alone, then my hypothesis does not stand

The self-made billionaire has also spoken of his dissatisfaction with his busy life and longing to become a teacher once again. He has repeatedly talked about his expected hectic travel schedule, since retiring as chief executive officer of Alibaba, to become executive chairman.

"When I retired from the CEO position, I told the CEO team (in 2013) I should have more time playing golf on the beach.

"But I find, oh my God, spent 870 hours in the air last year, and this year, 1,000 hours," said Mr Ma, in an interview with American talk show host, Charlie Rose at a conference in Detroit in June, 2017.

"The thing is, I don't want to die in my office. I want to die on the beach."

As Alibaba has grown into one of the world's most valuable companies, joining the ranks of Apple, Microsoft and Amazon, Mr Ma has made unlikely remarks about his mixed feelings towards the company he co-founded in 1999.

He famously said his "biggest mistake was I made Alibaba", because of the enormous pressure and responsibility he has had to shoulder to steer the US$420 billion (S$578 billion) company with more than 86,000 employees.

"I was just trying to do a small business and (not) grow that big, take that many responsibilities and get so much trouble.

"Every day is like being as busy as a president, and I don't have any power. I don't have my life," said Mr Ma, at the St Petersburg International Economic Forum in June 2016.

"If I still can have a next life, I will never do a business like this. I will be my own self, I want to enjoy my life," he continued.To head such a tech titan also requires unparalleled political wisdom and calculation, as maintaining a good relationship with the government can be vital to a large company's success in China

He still work until close to his retirement age.

I salute his unselfishness, despite his “unsatisfaction of his busy life”.

Those who only work until 40 years old is selfish compared to Jack Ma.

He is a good example for my hypothesis