"FIRE" is a scam ! Sorry to burst the bubble for those young ones who posted here....

It's a scam devised by the elderly, society, parents, bosses, including MLM/insurance etc (collectively known as "beneficiaries") so that the beneficiaries can motivate young people to work hard for them

It's a carrot that looks sweet, but eventually if you get it, it is just a normal plain old carrot.

The whole FIRE concept is wrong in the first place. It assumes "work life is shit, and retirement is heaven". For those young people who suffer much while working, it fits perfectly into their true experience. But no, the assumption is not correct.

Have you considered that to be in the heaven, you not only require financial freedom ? To be able to just live day-to-day plain survival life, you will not enjoy life. Meaning if you just watch TV, surf internet, gardening, exercise, (and all those activities that cost very little) which you thought is stress free and enjoyable life, then you will find out soon human beings are species which will get bored easily. Human needs more than food to live happily. Human is also greedy so living with minimum necessity will not make him/her happy.

In other words, human needs a lot of other stuff besides money to be happy. Love, sense of success, recognition, health, to be the best in the field, seeing people around you to be successful and happy......etc etc depending on individuals

Come back to the assumption that "work life is shit, retirement is heaven". If you feel that work is shit, then you are just pushing the blame to the boss. The core problem is not with the work, but your attitude ! The fact is you cannot face stress in your life. Who told you making money and work is easy in the first place ? They are not ! So, if you change your attitude that work is not easy and you have to deal with problems everyday, eventually you will get used to the stress, and work is no more shit. Work and problems are normal phenomenon which happens everyday. You should be happy there are problems for you to solve. Otherwise, you are redundant and have no job !

If there is no problem for one day, that is just a bonus, but entitlement.

If you can get your perspective right, then you will look at the problem as a challenge. If you can overcome any challenge in life, then nothing will make you unhappy.

I don't expect young people to understand and appreciate what I said. Because when I was young, I think like all of you too. But as you experience life when it unfolds, both extreme happy and sad events, you will reach a stage that everyday is a blessing to you. Work or retire has no difference anymore. No more mood difference be it a Monday or Friday. Work is just a small part of your life. There are many more important stuff.

So, don't be influenced by the FIRE concept. It tells you life is a drink which tastes bitter first, sweet later. Is the drink taste all the same for everybody ? Most probably not. What if you find out your drink also taste bitter later ? It will be too late.

If you can ditch the FIRE concept, change your attitude towards life, then you actually start enjoying a nice drink (with all taste of life) for the remaining 50-70 years...

My main point is not about nutritional food, YOLO, business people hates a miser.... etc

I'll explain again. My point is very simple :

1. FIRE concept implies that work is shit. That's why you strive for financial freedom and retirement early (ie don't need to work)
2. If work is not shit, but an enjoyable adventure you do everyday, then the FIRE concept is not needed anymore

Agree ?

To give you an analogy :

3. Those who believe in FIRE is similar to treating their job as a prostitute.
4. They feel that they get fxxked everyday in the job to make money
5. That's why they want to end their working life as early as possible

My point is :

6. If you treat your job as a gigolo instead, your job is instead fxxk other people and get paid
7. You help solve other people's problem by satisfying them
8. And you get paid along the way

Of course, it is just an analogy (I am assuming being fxxked is bad, and fxxk other people is good. This may not be true in real life)


Yes. It is hard to swallow, but the fact is those who believe in FIRE concept deep down is thinking they are "prostitute". They can't wait to retire.

The challenge is how to turn it around and become a "gigolo" instead

If your everyday work is to orgasm, your client/boss treat you like a god and get paid at the same time, who want to retire ?

You are looking everything from your own tunnel of vision, and assuming the world is as what you see

From my experience of almost 40 years of working life, I have encountered many types of colleague, staff, bosses...from high level to low level.

There are a very wide spread of characters and their approach towards their job.

Some are really passionate about what they do. While some characters are hopeless. They are unhappy no matter what they do

Proactive, pragmatic, positive, hardworking, easy going, responsible, strong leadership are some common characters which make a person a happy worker who can excel in their career. These are the "gigolo" type of workers



From day 1 I have already mentioned this to you in stock market forum :

Wealth is not accumulated through cost savings. It is accumulated through how you expand your income

Cost saving can only allow you to reach a certain level. To go beyond that, you must know how to make money

Hey Gary, long time no talk....

I stay in Australia quite often, so I know a little bit about the cost of living in both Malaysia and Australia...

I can tell you cost of living in Malaysia is lower than Australia. Especially your passive income is in AUD. After conversion, everything is 3 times cheaper.

For food (home cook), 2 person in Australia need maybe $200 per fortnight. In Malaysia, maybe RM800 per month is enough. I am talking about fruits, vege and some meat. Pork is about $15/kg in Coles, in Malaysia about RM30/kg. Free range chicken is about $6/kg. In malaysia about RM9/kg. Vege maybe average $2 per kg in Aust, in Malaysia, RM2-4/kg can get many types of vege. But I find that the quality of meat and vege is way better in Australia. In Malaysia, you may not be able to get the same quality. Onion, lettuce, carrot, tomato, lamb, steak, port are top quality in Australia. While in Malaysia, the quality is second grade.

For eating out, that is where malaysia is much cheaper and taste better too. In tai chow, 2 person 3 dishes maybe around RM60. If you order seafood, maybe RM100. For fried rice/chow kui teow is around RM6 or RM7 each. KFC in malaysia RM13/meal. In Australia, fried rice alone is already $12. Red Rooster is $12/meal. For dimsum, maybe already $60 for 2 person. For posher restaurant, it will be >$100. Price aside, it is the taste which matters. Malaysia best food is not in those posh restaurant, but cheaper street food and kopitiam. So I think you will enjoy yourself eating out in Malaysia. So many varieties authentic chinese, malay, indian, not like Australia international food are prepared for kuai loh taste

Petrol in Malaysia is about 50% cheaper too.

Electricity is maybe $0.20-$0.40 per unit on average depending on provider. While in malaysia, it is about average RM0.30-RM0.50 depending on usage

Water is free in Selangor. And very cheap other parts of Malaysia. While in Australia it cost a bomb at least $100 per month !

Movie is also cheaper in Malaysia about RM13 per ticket. Hoyts is about $15. I think both Malaysia and Australia has 50% concession for age above 60...

You have already a house in Malaysia, so that is taken care of. Car price is slightly more expensive in Malaysia by maybe 25%, both small car or luxury car. But that is a one-off cost

For medical, we have GP clinics in malaysia which is considered affordable. Small sickness consultation+medicine is under RM100. Maybe for serious illness, you get insurance. Depending on the amount covered, it may range from RM400-RM1000 per month for older people. If I were you, I will keep PR or convert to citizen. If got big health problem, then fly back to Australia for treatment. The hospital service is better there.

So, I would think for basic living, RM2k for a retired couple with no kid is very comfortable. Throw in another RM1k for eating out per month. RM3k will be sufficient for simple but enjoyable life. Your passive income from Australia has a lot of buffer !

Ah....another thing you will enjoy here is the cheap manpower

If you ask bangla to mow your lawn, RM30 or maybe cheaper. In Australia, $50

Haircut you still can get about RM15 in the small salon. $20-$30 for simple haircut there

Household repair you can easily afford in Malaysia. Plumber, Electrician, Contractor for roof repair you can ask them to do it here. In Australia, everything DIY because too expensive...

At our age, nothing is more important than making ourselves and our other half happy. I am sure you and your wife will enjoy living in malaysia.

Living in KL is not a problem for you financially. The only thing left outstanding in your plan is medical insurance. It’s good to research now. Because you need to undergo medical checkup and also a waiting period. Get you and your wife a family coverage of about RM1m pa and no lifetime limit, and guaranteed renewal too. Insurance here must have “life” portion and “medical” portion. You don’t need the “life” portion so put “medical” portion to the max, “life” portion to min.

There are many choice of insurance companies. Allianz, HLA, prudential etc etc. No good to ask for recommendations from relatives. Once you ask, then you are stuck with the relative. Best is you research and compare the medical policy from different companies, and once you have selected the policy, only ask your relatives whether they know any agent from that company.

Actually the public hospitals in Malaysia is not that bad. The only bad thing is you have to wait in the long queue. Also there could be times when the hospitals run out of medicine supplies. Hopeful with the change of government, we can have better service. I have been to selayang and sungai Buloh hospitals, the environment is quite modern and they have all the medical equipment and specialists there. So, even without private insurance, there are still public hospitals we can go to. And really cheap too.

That’s why the tradies earn more than some of the professionals like accountants, chemists and even architects in australia. Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, construction workers earns close to 6 figure while the professionals average only $60-70k

One more thing, are you affected by the vacant residence tax like Melbourne if you move to Malaysia ?

This post has been edited by Showtime747: Aug 22 2018, 03:45 PM

Hi son, was visiting my staff. One was giving birth, the other car accident.

The service for giving labour is even better than private hospital. They will send nurses to your house after discharge just to make sure the new mother knows how to take care of the baby like bathing and correct way to use diapers. Private hospitals don’t have such service !

Gary, you have about 4-5x more buffer than the amount needed. If your passive income isn’t enough, then majority of KL retirees will be staving

Your income level is the dream of many youngsters in this thread. If you notice, some aim for only RM1m nest egg to generate RM30-40k of passive income. You already have way more than that.

There is a Chinese saying “if your horse dies, get off the horse and walk”. Life will work out. Just enjoy the moment

Personal opinion.....I think your friend made a mistake in his investment. He is using his nest egg A$2m to retire, instead of using "the returns from his nest egg" to retire.

As we don't know to what age we will live until, eating into the nest egg is not a good retirement plan

We should use the return instead for retirement, leaving the nest egg untouched.

I think you are calculating your retirement budget based on the return of your nest egg, so your plan is way better than your friend.

Now, come to the next question - how to use only the returns of a retiree's nest egg to retire ? We have many topics in this forum which touched on that

His risk is too concentrated....

Nowadays with internet, we can invest way wider and further. Our portfolio should be very diversified and spread the risk, like :

1. Different industry and sector (financial, tech, food, infrastructure, property, etc)
2. Different instrument (shares, ETF, bonds, money market, precious metal, mutual funds, etc)
3. Different geography (countries, hence forex)
4. Different capitalization (small, medium and large companies)
5. Different aggressiveness (growth, income, low yield, value)

I always think that we should have a balanced portfolio. Even for retiree, it may not necessarily be a good thing to invest everything in low risk low return investment. Like 100% in FD. Because even FD has its risk. What if RM FD return becomes like USD interest rates (close to zero) ? We used to have FD rates close to 8% in late 1990s. But it has decreased so much since. Even now, RM FD is getting close to zero real returns (ie after inflation). Also, if we only have RM FD, what if one day malaysia becomes Greece or Venezuela ? So it is always good to spread the risk and have a balanced portfolio

I have gone through a few rounds of crashes. 1987, 1994, 1998, 2008.

Since 2008, there is no serious crash. That is when most of the youngsters born in 80s and 90s started to invest. And they never been through the plight of a crash. Some talked very big like investment guru So much confidence backed with numbers, charts and theories....

Until they experience their first crash, then I am sure they will learn what is risk and returns.

Same thing happened to Greece and Venezuela. Before the crisis, nobody would have thought the country would go bankrupt. There were 101 theories to back up stability of the economy. But you can see what happened to them now...

And look at Gary’s friend who only invest in Aussie banks. A big chunk of portfolio was gone

Diversification is the universally accepted practice to mitigate investment risk. Because there is no certainty in investment world. Anything could happen. And usually they catch you by surprise. By that time, it would be too late for you to do anything.

I have invested in property since ~30 years ago. To the contrary, the property price has gone up tremendously. Maybe I have better luck ?

May I ask what has my credibility got to do here ? In a forum, my point of view is more important than credibility. If it makes sense, that is the thing a reader can take away. If my point of view doesn’t make sense, even if I am the most credible person in the world, how would you benefit from it ?

Sorry I cannot remember, did I said something bad about you previously ? Just curious....

Bank of Australia ? Never heard of it

You must be talking about Commonwealth Bank of Australia

Gary was telling you a real life story. His good friend loss million of dollar by holding substantial shareholdings in banking sector during the financial crisis.

I don’t understand what are you trying to get to....are you trying to prove his friend did the wrong thing by selling the shares ?


Diversification is trying to address the issue of “what if something goes wrong”

Even if a country’s economy is extremely sound, there are also benefits to diversify to other countries.

Just look at the thread in this forum. There are SGX, ASX, US stock, ETFs etc. Forummers here do diversify. They don’t put all their eggs in one basket.

However, if you feel that your investment objective is to invest in only Malaysia, that is entirely up to you. Nobody here can stop you. Everybody has his own choice and preference.

Yes, I have a lot of free time. I am an unker close to 60 years old....

I thought you know me well enough if you have followed closely those BBB DDD thread in Kopitiam ? BTW you know the rules here is not like in kopitiam forum right ?

Oh...appreciate it if you won’t engage with me. Seems that you forgot that just a few hours ago, you are the one who initiate it. I did nothing and suddenly out of nowhere, I got some weird opinion on my personality

“Humble” ? “ur trying push this holier than thou attitude...” ?

Bro, since when is my post so imposing ? I did not point a gun at your head to accept my view. I am just sharing my view and experience. I never claim my view is gospel. If you feel my writing is not humble until it is offending you, you can always choose not to read

There is an ignore button down there if you press my username FYI. If you really hate what I said, feel free to press the button. I also don’t want you in the future suddenly appear in a thread to accuse me I have “no credibility”, “not humble” etc

Make sure you press the button.....Goodbye !

This post has been edited by Showtime747: Aug 23 2018, 05:53 PM

Thanks bro for the wishing....appreciate it...

I can’t help but to do a search on your posting....hope you don’t mind me asking here....

Do you still feel when reading forummers’ post here, inadvertently you relate the post is directing to you in a negative manner ? It seems that you said so in this thread

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4600862/+300 Starting from post #308

You may be too sensitive, bro....

Bro, not asking about the second sentence. But your first sentence....

Forgive me because I am more kuailow style very direct one....can I ask you a few question ? if you don’t want to answer, it’s ok.....

1. You think that others are trying to insult you ? You may hear a person say one thing, but you think that they mean something else ?

2. You think that certain people are trying to make you look bad to others ? You may react by getting angry or attacking them back ? You may also believe that your reputation is being threatened ?

3. You think other people will harm, trick, or take advantage of you ?

4. You often hold grudges against people who you believe have done something bad to you. You believe that the actions were done to hurt you, and you cannot forgive the people who did them. You may see people as your enemies, and want to get back at them.

As said, just ignore me if you don’t feel like answering. No offense ya....

This post has been edited by Showtime747: Aug 23 2018, 08:57 PM

Ok bro....I got all your answer for Q1, 2, 3 and 4

If you want to know more, shoot me a pm.....I may able able to help...this is a sincere offer, not trolling...

Good luck, bro !

This post has been edited by Showtime747: Aug 23 2018, 07:42 PM

All I can say is google is your best friend

Most probably. But only after you read the link I provided to the thread in Property section