That exactly what they want. And that exactly who he is.

There is one type of man that can be emasculated. The alpha-wannabe.

From the start of my thread, the context is about first date, what to do etc.

If a girl agrees to go on date with you, it means she has some slight interest in you (that's why she agrees to going out, otherwise why would she?). Then my advice is about how to make the good impression etc.

In the first post, I did write:

"Don't feel frustrated with women reject you outright. If it's something you can change to be better, you can impress her again in the next date, provided that she will give the 2nd chance and you still wanna pursue her."

She will give the 2nd chance = still have interest in you.
You still wanna pursue her = you still have interest in her.

In other words, if both individuals show no interest, there is of course no 2nd chance and no more pursuit. Please go for the next date and don't waste your time on the girl.

I'm asking men to put in effort in women who are interested in them, and they are interested in. Maybe you should re-read.

& did I say it's wrong to cast nets to catch many fish? I said it's not a wrong approach, didn't I? Go re-read.

& did I say just focus on one girl?

Even for hunter, when they set the trap, they will be different animals getting attracted to the lure. For example, a hunter puts a few carrots in the jungle to lure a few rabbits. If he doesn't wanna wait, then just wait for the first rabbit to appear, and hunt it down. If he's willing to wait, then when more rabbits come, only then the hunter decides which rabbit he want to hunt down. That one rabbit will then run away and the hunter will chase it, and enjoy the thrill of chasing. The hunter is hunting the animal who gets attracted.

This approach is different from the fishermen approach: cast the net, wait wait wait for the fish to swim in, and then pull the net up and select the fish. Sometimes may have good catch, sometimes no.

Please read carefully, and interpret the context correctly. Maybe you read too fast and you miss a few key points.

Perhaps that’s the reason why many men failed to read the signals of women. Men don’t read, men are generally visual creatures, hence don’t try writing too long sentences 😥 😂
LoL joking.

Was it somewhere or someone that say women are more “need base” in the forum somewhere.

I agree I too may not be at best doing the part understanding women. I try not I guess but we can’t always avoid

Carry on Ralna, it is beneficial to many (reading this) but the guys need to be aware, it’s a ‘guideline’ and there are exceptions to the rule as not all dating rules are alike.

It’s just a overall ‘guide’ and to be honest it’s helpful to many (but not all/everyone)

This post has been edited by koolspyda: Jul 2 2018, 04:54 PM

I think you interpret rejection as "bye forever; can't even be friends at all."

Reject = "dismiss as inadequate, unacceptable, or faulty"

Rejecting a man and rejecting his pursuit are two different matters.

If a woman rejects a man, she doesn't wanna even keep in touch with him. She finds him irritating, annoying and won't wanna hear from him again.

If a woman rejects a man's pursuit, it means she doesn't wanna start a relationship. Maybe it's because she's not ready, or she still have doubts about him, or it's too fast. However, it doesn't mean she wanna shut him out.

Look, if you have been friends with a girl for some time, you two can chat and hang out together, she likes you and you like her (as friends), and then you find yourself having feelings for her, and start pursuing her, and she says no.

Does it mean she hates you? No right?

She just doesn't want you to pursue her. It doesn't mean she will cut off the relationship. As long as she doesn't cut off the relationship, and you still have feelings for her, you can still find other ways to pursue her. Maybe she won't accept you now (need to find out why), but it doesn't mean a (future) relationship with her is doomed and hopeless.

In my case, he and I were friends at first, then he fell for me and pursued me. I said no. He asked why. I told him the reasons. He didn't give up. He addressed my concerns one by one, and found ways to work things out. That's why it took a whole year to pursue me, coz I needed the time to think and accept.

My relationship is very challenging, coz it involves LDR, different religion and other factors. Just LDR alone is already a challenge by itself. Then different religion? Yeah, strong opposition from family and relatives.

I could have easily given up and shut him out, but I didn't. & it's not like I didn't have other admirers; I had.

The reason I'm with him is because he accepts me for who I really am and be a better person. I feel happy, loved and cherished. The positive influence he has on me, in the end, made my family finally accept him, that's why we can proceed to the next stage.

You call this topping of the chart or playing games? I don't think so. Which women don't want a simple and easy relationship? I think men too; most men won't wanna get involved with complicated girls.

Yeah, I tried to be as clear as I can in my writing, but then maybe the content is too long/ a lot to digest, it might be difficult and challenging to follow through. It's okay. I'm a communication major, so I understand the challenges. Also, how men and women process info are different. Women mean A but men interpret as B, and that's how argument happens.

Yeah, I'm sharing based on my own experience and what I know/ learn/ observe all these years, so it's subjective. When it's subjective, it's an opinion and not a fact. We all experience life differently, and see things differently, so I don't need people to agree fully with me.

It's just like blind men trying to figure out the shape of an elephant. If you don't know the story, here's it:



Cheers.

Fair enough.

But to me a better advice is to simultaneously date other girls in addition to the 2nd date to the girl who rejected him.


That was my point, a guy shouldn't just focus on one and forget about the rest.
It will give him more choices and more choices mean better decision.



This post has been edited by Drian: Jul 2 2018, 05:44 PM

Different men have different criteria, perhaps for you. I’m not that type.

A lady friend once shared how naive she was (she’s quite a looker) and many men have been trying, mind you men with “good taste” but much of these men love the persuit of fine women until they often to go 2-3 girls at a time. They simply have the resources.

The problem arises when such men have the pursued ladies fall for the same guy the same time. Even Being a smooth talker, the discovery of the ‘other’ isn’t too pleasant.

The scenario probably also applies men have complained that’s some girls inevitably invite men/guys to pursue the same time (going with different men for dates)

I don’t know, when you are exclusive, you are exclusive. Younger men and women may not have sorted all their wants in life.

So if it justified that you should be allowed to date simultaneously with 2-3 women, I think it’s your choice and if your resources allows (time and mullah)

So, did u approve or disapprove his pursue on you?
And if you disapprove it, why did he continue? How would someone did something you disapprove eventually gets your approval.

Because, you neither reject him as a person, nor his pursuit. You admitted that. You all you just said, it's A problem. A list of problems.
That's not the same as disapproving his pursuit. You refuse to come off easy is not the same as rejecting his pursuit. I totally get that.

To large extend, you actually wanted him to find ways to get around it which would define your worth. You would be disappointed if he didn't wouldn't you.

Alright, don't bother to respond to that. It's obvious and pointless continue.
There is nothing useful discussing there.

What you obviously demonstrated here is, a woman's no doesn't always mean no. It's a conditional no. Perhaps, temporary.
What would be useful is how to identify a woman's no is a conditional no. Don't bother with unconditional NO. That would be "gave up and shut off".

What I believe is the problem is men confused between the conditional no and a real no means no. And in that process, he wasted his resources unnecessarily.
This is resonates what Drian said. And when dudes in Drian's example comes here, the bottom line is he failed in meeting the conditions of the conditional no.

You did set a list of condition for him. You admitted he met them one of after another. And in that process, you are checking those condition is the list one after another. Probably, with very inflated ego. How is that defined as "rejected his pursuit"? That's more like accepting and validating his pursuit. Don't answer. It's OK.

Topping the chart in my context is being top 1% in YOUR 100 person dating pool. Not playing games.
And that's not true. Scandals of different degree proved that.

And trust me, it's alot easier if guys did a quick assessment the target's dating pool and where does he actually stands.
Personally, I would have saved alot of embarrassment if I have been better at that. One of my few most memorable lesson ends with, "Nice try!" i totally came off an idiot . If just I know that my "business" card isn't as impressive as those business cards from her dating pool. Its still pretty impressive to me. It would be a pretty fun story to tell.

First impression matters, totally agree with that.
Because that would be the inception of a person's bias. Once the biased is formed, it's not easy to debunk or correct.
But if used correctly, it could be very useful to form a stronger favourable bias.

Best post in this thread. Totally agree, especially the 10% pool theory.

How Alpha you are, by nature you are still a women and would still appreciate care and comfort. How beta a man is, by nature they are still men, and they would need their ego to be stroke.

Hence to reach the balance, the guy has to step up from time to time and the women has to be aware and tone down.

I agree with the part you said women have 2 types of no: conditional & non-conditional no.

& as I wrote earlier, women "have a mental checklist when it comes to screening and selecting potential partners".

At first glance, when we look at our suitors, we mentally screen them. You can say it's like HR screening potential candidates for the job. If you see this as inflated ego, well, that's the way it has been. You can complain it's unfair, it shouldn't be there, where's equality, this is discrimination etc etc, but denial and complaint can't change the inbuilt mechanism that women have in them.

In my case, I set my own mental checklist, and found that he didn't fit some criteria, so I said no to him. It's like HR saying, "Your application is rejected", but if you reapply for the job, submit the required documents, find ways to impress the hiring manager, you might get hired.

If you apply the same concept to relationships, HR is the woman, applicant is the man, and the job is the role of bf/ future husband.

& as I wrote earlier, women setting criteria/conditions isn't a bad thing, coz individuals have unique preferences. It's only when the criteria get too extreme and unrealistic, then it becomes a problem. You can choose not to pursue such women and leave them alone.

Btw, don't men set criteria as well? Men are more lenient when it comes to dating, but they are more selective when deciding who they wanna settle down with. A man can date as many women as he wants, but when it comes to future spouse, I'm sure he has his own set of criteria which the woman will need to pass so that he can get down on his knee and propose to her.

The difference is that, women have the screening process much earlier than men do. It may be biologically inbuilt, or culturally influenced, but this is how it is.

I'm not sure if guys know this or do this, but we girls share the criteria we look for in males among ourselves since young. We play dolls (papa and mama and baby doll), gossip about boys, fantasise about how our future bf/husband will be like, and really look forward to becoming a beautiful bride, with our best friends as bridesmaids and have a lovely wedding and family.

Yeah, you can laugh it off or whatever, but most girls grow up believing in fairy tales and happily ever after. That's why we role play, watch love dramas, imagine we are princesses (and we like them so much!). It's only when reality kicks it do women get crushed and the hope dies off.

That's why men feel some women are like the princess type. We grow up believing we are one, our father pampers us like that, our brothers and close male friends protect us that way. Of course, not all women are this type. Just generally speaking, esp. if the girl comes from well-being family/ middle and upper class. Eh wait, even those from poor background also believe in Cinderella story.

From young, we are told be careful, to not easily give our heart away, to protect ourselves at all times etc; that's why women are naturally more guarded than men. & hence, the mental checklist is there.

If you try to understand women using the male brain (logical and analytical), then you can never understand them well. When you can't understand them well, it affects your pursuits a lot. That's why it's so frustrating.

For a girl who is more into practical stuff than beauty (like flower, ring etc), and also allergic to metallic wearable, what is your recommendation to make a good propose?

So how would you differentiate between this and women stringing men along or women who has already put them in the friendzone?

Do you think that the advice " continuously pursue the same girl" and hoping for success is a good advice given the context and history of the guys who are posting their problems here. Lots of men have done exactly what you said and ended up as failures. Do you think this advice is in the men's best interest or women's?

This is one of them
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4513716

This post has been edited by Drian: Jul 3 2018, 10:01 AM

That is true but I disagree with women understanding women.
That is why players who do exactly the opposite of what women tell them to do are very successful and the men who listen to women are not.

Until you guys are seriously dating and attached, there's nothing wrong with dating other girls. Women do it all the time too.
You're not suppose to discuss or tell who you are dating with with your current date.
If the girls find out, they do not have the right to get angry at you if they themselves do not want to commit. If they get angry they are just being hypocrite because they expect commitment from you when they themselves are not committing to you.

Seriously do you think that Tinder girl you are chatting with are just chatting with you or just dating you. Be realistic.

As for the moolah, you first few dates should be cheap . She's not your gf, you shouldn't splurge now.
In fact the ideal first date should be in a dessert/coffeehouse after dinner. Allows you to talk to your date without splurging with lots of money.



This post has been edited by Drian: Jul 3 2018, 10:40 AM

" Women like to test men, level by level "

This is the problem.

Yes, always assessed where you are in the pecking order, if the women eventually came back to you or respond affectionately to you after a period of "side lining" you, it is likely after a period she found that no one better came along and she re-valued her self worth and match them against her pool of suitors again OR she re-valued you and placed you higher in the pecking order due to disappointment from others or she discover new information about you that is favourable.

In the end, pursuing women boils down to how you market yourself to match their points system. On first impression, you will be assign a rank, whether it is favourable, neutral or rejected. If the women has a lot of pursuer or highly sought after, then those from the rejected can straight away give up while those with favourable and neutral may continue to put in effort to be in the running for the prize.

From there you can improve your rank and if you are not the first, and she has not selected the candidate yet, you can outlast the competition by always be on your A game. Alternatively, if you think she is not worth the effort, you can screw it don't participate in the chase.

So if you are pursuing women like TS, unless you totally blow her scale, be prepare to sacrifice some of your ego and realized you are still not the best and keep at it until you beat the competition. This is how they separate the winner from the average. Test after test. You must have some worth to dish out these test tho .

If Ralna is all that she say she is, I would say TS fiancée is consider a fighter/alpha, they will get what they want, be it the highly sought after women or that lucrative business project that everyone is aiming. A winning candidate.

Alright alright

Matter of definition.

You include casual dates. Simple, ones etc those I would consider as just casual hang outs. Yes initial “dates”

I’m refer to dates that’s exclusive, with intent. Both knows it may lead to emotions getting ‘complicated’

You have your idea which is alright. It ain’t playing the girls heart nor stirring yours.

I'm just gonna summarize this with one word: STANDARD

Before anyone can set a standard for anyone else to meet, he/herself must be of a person of certain standard.
There is no way for anyone to expect Snapchat CEO to come pursue you if you aren't Miranda Kerr.

What useful here. Embrace the profound truth that, "Begger can't choose. If you wanna choose. Don't be a begger".

1) Are you trying to rationalize BAD BEHAVIOUR with childhood fantasy?

2) In your Cinderalla story, everyone loves Cinderella. She is hopeful. She is grateful. She appreciates everything and everyone around her. She goes through hardship without complain. The problem is not the society has increasing numbers of Cinderella, but Cinderella's STEP SISTER. Ungrateful. Lazy. Entitled.

The right social conditioning should incline towards conditioning women into Cinderella. Cinderella has lot more to offer than a pussy. But step sister literally have only pussies. Hopefully, u get where is my disagreement with your statement, "who you are determines what you deserves". The society do not glorify virtues of Cinderella and her sacrifices. It's more like glorifying the step-sister bad behavior. Try pay attention to this when u r in ladies nite out.

It's always what you do. That's empowering because everyone single one of us has a choice to choose what to do.

There are many other bullshit to deal with. It's u hv affinity to deal with other bullshit.

Personally, I deal with bullshit that pays. The reason is there no other tools more powerful than money. There is no other better definition of success other than the ability to make money.

Any man of value would understand the concept of appreciating value and diminishing value.
No man of value trades something of appreciating value with diminishing value. In any successful partnership, both partners offers leverage.

What i'm trying to say is, "Sorry, the boat has left". She might be still in my standard if you maintains/improve on whatever leverage she has.

He blew her scale. But we don't know what her scale is. But he blew her scale.
U know, the 99th person in her scale might did everything the the number 1 in her scale. But, she will never talk about it.

I always ask my female acquintances...when Z did this and you despises it. But if A, did it...you say, Awww... how sweet. Why so unfair one?
They hate me for pointing that out.

You may disagree. What I'm trying to say is, if you are top 10 in the list, maybe you can outlast the other 9. But if you come from the bottom 10, it's more like no matter what you do, you will never be mentioned.