I notice most guys feel frustrated when trying to get the girls they want. It's either the girls aren't interested/ rejected them right at the start, or suddenly ghost/ leave after a few months, or change to become worse/ demeaning and the relationship becomes toxic or end with betrayal/ sudden breakup.

I grew up having more male friends than female ones, but I'm not a tomboy or the brotherly type. Sometimes I have empathy/ sympathy for men, seeing them so frustrated and hurt, either during pursuit, or during the initial stage, or while in the relationship, or the breakup.

Actually what men want are simple, it's women that's complicated, as they have more wants and needs = more picky and demanding/ high expectations. I'm guilty of this as well, but I don't play guys' feelings or take advantage of them.

***

I'm a woman, so obviously, I don't (need to) pursue men.

I've gone out with 22 men, one-on-one lunch/ dinner dates via dating apps. Most of them are in their 30s (that's the range I set), and are professionals. Among them are engineers (mechanical, O&G), managers (software development, app designs, logistics, real estate, finance), business owners (car parts supplies, water filtration systems, logistics), a scientist in manufacturing technology, a strategy director and others.

Of course, I've chatted with even more men, about 100-200 in the past few years. When I first used Tinder, I got 99+ likes and 30+ pm's within 12 hours. (Side note: Now I know why I was popular. I asked my male buddy to show me his Tinder girls, we swiped left and right together, hmm... I was kinda disappointed? The photos and profile write-ups were kinda...unsatisfactory. Then I looked at how he chatted up with different girls. )

So yeah, I'm quite seasoned. I don't sleep around & all my dates are serious/ proper ones (not looking for hookups). Now I don't use dating apps anymore, and funnily, I met my fiance via lowyat forum.


First Date Matters

Men are actually more feeling-based/ visual ("I like the girl, I have feeling for her, so I chase her"). Men tend to fall in love hard and fast when the gut feeling/ instinct/ hormones gets triggered (by her looks, her smile, sexy photos, body shape etc).

Women aren't like that. They have a mental checklist when it comes to screening and selecting potential partners. Let's begin with the first date.

First impression is, of course, important. As long as you look decent and presentable, display good table manners and etiquette, you score points.

Women tend to be naturally guarded, so you'll need to make them feel at ease/ more relaxed, and show that you are caring, such as asking "Would you like some hot tea?" "Do you feel cold?" "How's the food? Is the soup hot enough?" Ask simple questions to just have a quick check on how she's feeling, and if she says she's fine/ it's okay, then say something like, "That's good. I'm glad you enjoy the soup/ you're feeling comfortable" and then smile at her.

Then the topics you talk about should be something interesting. Usually, men will need to lead the conversation first to break the awkward silence. It can be telling stories (about what happened at work, or a project you just completed etc), or talking about some fun activities that you'll be doing, or asking for her opinion about vacation ideas etc. It should be interactive, and ideally, men should listen more than they talk. When you can get a woman to open up and talk about what interests her, and make her smile and laugh, the date is then a successful one = you are making her feel good and happy.

After the lunch/ dinner ends, pay for the meal (you asked her out and you like her). Don't schedule the next date immediately. Just say it's kinda late, she should go home now and sleep early, get some beauty sleep after a good meal and chat with you.

If you like her, accompany her to pay the parking ticket, or to the car park if it's kinda late. Then when you're home, text her to say you're home and ask her if she has reached home safely too. Then thank her for her time to dine with you, and you enjoy it. Don't ever ask her how she thinks of the date, or how she thinks of you. It's still too early to judge, so please don't invite unnecessary preliminary evaluation.

Up till now, notice that on the first date itself, you'll need to:
1) pay attention to details
2) show that you are warm and caring
3) don't show your desperation (by asking her when's the next date or how she feels about you etc)
4) unguard her by 10%-20%

***

As mentioned earlier, I've gone out with 20+ men. 90% of them paid for the first date. Some of them asked if I would consider a serious relationship with them, which I rejected outright. On the other hand, with some of them, I had a second and third date.

Why Women Reject Men

Many reasons, such as:

1) physical compatibility: height, body shape, body frame
2) bad impression: lack of punctuality, no table manners, poor body language (yawn, burp etc)
3) lack of common interests or common topics
4) lack maturity and depth, e.g. cold jokes or sarcastic remarks, which women don't find funny at all
5) don't feel safe or comfortable with him; he's too desperate for next date or for sex

and other reasons, of course.

The thing is, don't feel frustrated with women reject you outright. If it's something you can change to be better, you can impress her again in the next date, provided that she will give the 2nd chance and you still wanna pursue her.

& yes, back then when my bf-now-fiance pursued me, I rejected him straightaway, but he didn't give up. He didn't let my rejection diminish his value and self-worth, and he proved himself to me that he truly deserved me. I was really impressed with his high self-esteem and confidence. It took him a whole year to pursue me, and to get me give up dating other men. (Another tip: Women like to test men, level by level.)

A man who is very sure and confident of himself (in a good way, not delusional), despite the "disadvantages" he has, is very attractive and sexy to women. I call it the winning attitude/ mentality.

If you are at a disadvantage (no good looks, not rich etc), you need to demonstrate to her you are a man worthy of her in some other ways, such as you can make her laugh and be happy, you are caring and filial etc. Demonstrate your strengths despite the weaknesses you have, and don't feel inferior.

***

Ok, shared a lot. I'm not sure how you guys pursue women; I'm just sharing some input so that you can refine your tactics, and hopefully, increase the chances of succeeding.

This post has been edited by Ralna: Jul 1 2018, 12:56 AM

Did woman always seek materialistic man? Any set of money benchmark that woman used to set when deciding to marry with? I assume you are the top league of woman that man always chase so will be glad to hear your opinion..

interesting but not the same with most cases as most find their mate with out apps or online....so the first date would be less boring ....as it will not be an introduction session....and about compatibility....it also depends on what women want....but as usual they dont always get what they want and get less choosy thru experience ,,,and settle for the guy they use to rate less the 5/10.....due to searching for a guy which is above 5/10 which are mostly taken or married

Try figure why TS picked 30 and above.
Try figure what would hv changed significantly after 30’s.

I’m damm sure it’s not maturity. It’s more like his b*llshit starts to walk if u know what I mean.

Yes, being tested at every level. Taking a whole year is alright when the lady is all that he imagined.

Things you mentioned is pretty much how many men (oppose to some inexperienced chaps.

Sometimes it gets complicated as the lady concern isn’t single.
For reasons maybe like you say, options.

There are generally 4 types of women:

1) for hook-ups, play-play only = materialistic (no money, no honey)

2) bitches = use men for financial or status gain; materialistic. Once she's done using him, she dumps him and goes for the next.

3) doormats = low self-esteem, clingy, desperate; may or may not be materialistic, coz some are afraid to lose their bfs, so she's willing to pay everything for him, while some are vain due to insecurity, so wanna show off how wealthy bf is.

4) wife material = money is important, but it's for future together (wedding, family, children) = practical, not materialistic


To be honest, men are actually quite generous with their resources, but they don't like to be exploited (who likes, anyway?).

I'd say most women are actually quite dumb when they place $$$ as the top priority, coz:

1) A man's potential is more important than the money he's earning now.

He can be earning a lot now, say RM10k a month, but how about 5 years down the road? Accidents and retrenchment can happen, and there's something called inflation.

How much money a man can make in the future is more important than how much he can make now. Be that woman who can adequately support his ambition and help him to achieve his goals, and push him to realise his fullest potential.

2) Most rich men are actually low profile.

They don't flaunt their wealth, and they don't provide financially, until they feel safe enough to show how much they have in possession. Don't judge a book by its cover.


If most women you date are the playgirls/ bitches/ doormats, it's only natural that you'd feel most women are materialistic. If you wanna settle down, then look for wife material. You should be able to feel the difference.

I agree When you said a man potential is more important than he’s earning, what do you think with man who is in lost direction with his life, fully educated but still dont know about his fully potential and a loner? Mind to share ur opinion

No one likes to be tested, but again, view it in a positive light.

Why?

Choosing a partner to spend your life with is a major decision. I had to set some levels to test him, to find out:

1) whether he knows what he's getting into & who he's really dating. I don't want him to regret his decision one day.
How to test: Tell him my problems and see if he can/willing to handle them. If a man doesn't love the woman enough, he won't go through thick and thin with her.

2) to make sure he can take up the responsibility and commitment. I don't wanna date and only to get dumped one day.
How to test: Talk about future plans and family planning. Observe his reaction about having children and how to manage finances.

3) whether he can handle my bad side.
How to test: Show him my worst side. If he can accept and know what to do, then I know he's the right person to be with. We all have our bad moods once in a while, and we definitely need to let it out (doesn't mean we can abuse or vent it out on our partners).

***

Just a few examples. I also got tested in many ways, but I passed all of them; that's why he and I are still together and going for the next stage.

How men test women:

1) $$$ - greedy or not
2) xoxo - compatible or not
3) family - how she thinks of his family and buddies
4) hobbies - how she perceives his favourite activities
5) honesty & loyalty - will she go for the next guy if she meets a better one?

plus others. The testing goes both ways, actually.

Relationship is not always lovey-dovey, so it's important to find a partner who can understand, comfort and accept you totally, and help you to be a better person than you previously were.

Actually, it's common for men to feel lost from time to time, coz of the challenges they face, the decisions they have to make and the expectations/ responsibilities they shoulder (as a man, a son, a father/ husband/bf, employee/manager). It's just that they don't show it, coz they are supposed to look strong/ tough.

This journey of self-discovery will take years, or decades, and it can be really lonely and frustrating, but it's necessary for breakthrough to differentiate the real men from men.

yeah self discovery somehow is very frustrating and lonely, anyway your analogy is so inspiring, are u married woman? i'd be glad to date with you if u r still single, Lol

Thanks for the compliment. You made my day.

I'm not married yet; currently engaged. In the unlikely event that the engagement breaks (I'll be around 30-32 years old that time), I'll be back to the dating scene.



Potential Partners for Women in Their 30s

1) Single men in their 30s and 40s. They may be single because they are highly focused on their career (no time to date/ working overseas etc), or they are the loser type.

2) Divorced men in their 30s and 40s. A divorced man may come with children from his previous marriage, but for a woman is in her 30s, she can accept his children better than a woman in her 20s. Of course, having a blended family has its own set of challenges. If she loves him enough, she will go through the challenges with him.

***

I'm writing this so that men don't have to worry they can't find good women (thinking that they are all taken or married), and women don't have to worry about being "leftovers" (thinking that good men are near extinct).

In marketing terms, each product has its own target market, so if the marketing mix/ 4Ps (product, price, place and promotion) are done right, there will be buyers. You need to know your value and USPs to be able to get what you want, be it relationship, career, wealth or others.

How to know if im being played by a girl who play-play only or something like that?

TS you missed out one point, family backgrounds could be critical factor.

I met a girl through tinder, text & chatting everyday for 1 month. Then we decided to meet for lunch, movie and so on. Things moved on very smooth Until the 3rd dating, she hinted me to be my gf. In my mind, I was so worried that about my family background may pulled us back (my brother under jail term due to drug trafficking). So I told her and she eventually shared to her family about our relationship. Her family so worrying and angry about our relationship. In the end, she texted me that we should stop here and remain as friend and she blocked me in FB.

I intended to pursue her again perhaps she testing me about my sincerity. But I gave up after a thoughtful moment about our relationship. When she told that to her parents, I guess she must serious about me and respectful to her parents by telling them before we started.

Since then we haven’t texted to each other. Now I hope I can get over her.

This post has been edited by kkxhamtan: Jul 1 2018, 07:15 PM

I feel what you share is pretty much just the basics. You must be presentable, rich , caring , understanding, funny bla bla bla ,
that's just basically what the hollywood movies tells you to do.



If you truly want to help the men start with telling the real truth about women.
For eg:-

BS women say when they're not into you.
How to observe body language and make your move.
Do not limit yourself to 1 girl, date as many girls in 1 time.
Know how to pursue and pull back .
How not to be a doormat for women
How do women manipulate men and how to know you're being manipulated.

These are the things that are more important.




I totally disagree with this advice you give. Tonnes of "boys" here have done this and got disappointed at the end and they come whining here. The time and effort wasted could have been better utilized to get other girls.

Good write, good share.

Thanks TS !

This thread should've been made sooner for those guys having problem out there. Honestly, most of these are common sense if you were to go out with someone for the first time.

Good writing. I am sure it benefits many male forumer here

First, you can easily judge her interest in you by looking at the speed of her reply to your text, and the content. A girl who likes you won't take a few hours, or a whole day or a few days to reply your text, and when she replies you, it's usually not 1-2 lines only. In other words, a girl who is serious will give you her time and attention.

Men often text in short sentences (one or two words, or one or two lines), so they don't notice that women actually have different texting behaviour. Short texts from women are actually not okay, coz women are naturally more talkative.

2nd, you know a girl plays-plays when she doesn't initiate or give her input. She lets you do everything by yourself, and the effort become one-sided. Then when you ask her, she usually says "Dunno" or "Okay" (no opinion or preference), and then when she goes on dates with you, she doesn't smile or talk much.

3rd, she doesn't appreciate what you do. Maybe you have spent a few days thinking what gift to buy for her, and when she receives and opens it, she doesn't like it, and she complains. Girls like this are difficult to please, and if you are not "useful" to them, they can easily dump you to go for the next.

If a girl really likes you, even though the gift is not that satisfactory, she will still appreciate your effort and money spent to prepare it.

***

Of course, a girl who play-plays tend to give excuses or lie, so if you ever catch her doing that, you should blacklist her. & when a girl is very inconsistent (keep changing her minds or change her plans) that it affects your dates/ relationship with her, you should watch out.

These are some red flags that are easy to spot and more common. Sometimes, guys are so in love that they refuse to see... until they get hurt.

Sorry to hear about what happened. Obviously, the relationship wasn't long and deep enough for her to accept your family circumstances. It's only the 3rd date when you decided to confess the truth to her.

To be honest, it's your brother who is in jail; your whole family are not criminals, including yourself. You and your family shouldn't be sentenced morally (by her, her family or the society).

I think it's unwise for you to confess at such an early stage, because confession should go both ways. I'm sure she or her family have their own dirty stain or dark history, which she's not telling you yet.

When she chose to tell her parents about your flaws, she had actually thought of dumping you already. She just needed a good reason/ support so that she had the courage to dump you, and then block you on FB after that.

The truth is, if I know my bf has some dark family history, and I really love him, I won't wanna tell my parents coz I want them to have good impression on him. Plus, my bf is not a criminal, so why should he bear the judgement? & when you love someone, you accept him/her as the total package, not partially.

I know it feels hurtful, but please get over her. Be wiser in your next date. Remember, confession should go both ways and occur at a more mature stage in the relationship.

Yeah, it's just the basics, but most guys can't even get it done right. If the men I went out with had done all these right, then I would't have mention those steps as necessary. Those men were in their 30s, and were professionals. Using this as a sample, imagine the mistakes younger men (in their 20s and 30s) and those who are not professionals/ high ranking/ less educated can make.

& the topics you suggested, those are for later stage. I can't write all these in one thread, can I? It would then be a book. One topic, one thread, coz this is a forum, you need to be specific and give space for discussion.

***

From what you wrote, I feel that you are the type of men who jump too fast to conclusion, and too eager to speed things up to achieve desired results. While efficiency and effectiveness are good when you apply it at work, this doesn't apply well in pursuits/ relationships.

I'd say you're the fisherman type of man: cast one net, to get as many fish as you want in a short time. In fact, most men do that. I won't say it's a wrong approach, but a good catch always takes time, and bigger fish live in the deep sea, not near the shallow shore.

Another type of men, I call them the hunters. A hunter sets the lure, waits patiently for the prey to approach, and aims at the prey. He enjoys the chase to hunt the prey down, and when he succeeds in it, the prey is now his prized possession. Of course, during the chase, he wants the prey and only the prey, and give up on hunting other animals. It is the whole experience that gives him the thrill.

If there are too many fishermen out there fishing in the sea, perhaps you should sail deeper into the ocean, or try hunt in the jungle.

This post has been edited by Ralna: Jul 2 2018, 10:48 AM