Again, im not preaching works-salvation.

Im just saying justification and sanctification goes hand in hand. You cannot have justification without sanctification.

Hi bro thomas,

Yes, I would agree with you, it's something we want to see....fruits go hand hand but have patience with people, but we can't use that as a pre-requirement because God himself is very clear on Salvation as a Gift, not merited by something we need to produce by our result.

If you understand the meaning of gift. We cannot call something a gift when it is insisted on the fruits because by using that expectation when there is a demand on results it is as good as equal to meritting it.

We are like forcing a young boy to grow beard. When we all know beard will come and grow naturally when the person mature and we don't even have to force it to grow by then.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 26 2017, 11:31 AM

I understand what you're trying to say.
but to those young christians, first time hearing people, or unsaved people, its important they do rather than me.
its confusing putting in statements such as salvation = works + faith and salvation = faith is false teachers..

and btw.. u can have sanctification without justification.. if you follow the Bible close enough.. it is possible..
Simple question.. Was Lot saved or unsaved? Lot did numerous sins.. he was even one of the influential figures in the wicked city of Sodom.. The whole purpose (I believe) why there were also two sinners with Jesus on the day of his crucifixion was to also teach us one thing, salvation is PURELY on faith.. and CAN go without JUSTIFICATION.. just by word and by faith, you can get to heaven..

In fact, you can go to heaven without works..You can be saved and still sin.. BUT... Like i said.. IF YOU WERE SAVED.. would you continue sinning? ...
its the simple question of me asking Are you able to stay conscious while you are sleeping?
Yea, you ARE able to stay conscious while you are sleeping.. then if is so, were you even sleeping to begin with?
lols.. something like that

This post has been edited by zanness: Oct 26 2017, 10:59 AM

Oh my goodness people actually said those as their reassurance?!!?!?!? That is crazy!

Nononono for better or for worse I didn't have any of those 'divine feelings'. I hardly feel anything (which is also one reason I get very doubtful especially when everyone else around me becomes a rolling puddle of tears)

Some of my bookmarks are John 5:24, Romans 3:23-24.

If I may, brother, I think the terms are thrown around too easily without knowing them a little bit more

We are justified before God during our salvation (Rom. 3:24, 28). But at the same time, we sanctified in Christ (Heb. 10:14, 13:12). In other words, when we saved by faith, we are justified and sanctified in Christ.

The sanctification that we obtain in God's salvation may be divided into two aspects - positional and dis positional or progressive. Positional sanctification is the fact of sanctification that we obtained in Christ when we believed. Although we may not have the experience of sanctification, we obtained the fact of sanctification in Christ when we believed; that is, we gained the position of sanctification. Although we obtained the fact and position of sanctification upon believing, the experience of sanctification occurs only after our salvation (Heb. 12:14, 1 Pet. 1:15).

But, bro thomas thomasthai did not made clear which sanctification is he referring to. Neither did he mentioned on Sproul's view on salvation is (http://www.ligonier.org/blog/what-role-do-good-works-play-salvation/ ---- especially on the 3rd paragraph), which is, salvation covers the entire process and not only the initial stage.

If he is, then this point ... is something which was not addressed .... the "...but there’s still more of your salvation yet to come". Otherwise, we are talking past each other.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 26 2017, 07:11 PM

Had similar discussion with few brothers and sisters few years back.

And this is my understanding to this problem.

So in your mind, which / what standard of living that you should have only that you can go to church?

To me, if that's the case, I think no one here will able to qualify to go to church. I think my standard might not even good enough compare to a lot of other non-Christian. I always think that this is the lie that satan wants us to believe.

Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." - Mark 2:17

If one ask, am I saved? My answer would be Yes. And do I sin? Yes, I still sin.

But through His crucifixion, I can now have a personal relationship with Him. And this personal relationship is what keeps me going. Even when I sin, I know that I am saved, and with the help of HS, I learn that this is not what a follower of Christ should be like. This makes me want to stay away from sin more and till one day, I have the freedom to choose not to sin.

I hope that this will help you a little bit as this is what helped me.

Wowzers..

Welcome back Bro Pehkay.

That's the right perspective. Keep it up bro.

bro your code messed up..

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 26 2017, 08:43 PM

?

Like mentioned, sinning after salvation is entirely different.
These times, it is an era of grace by God. In old testament times, a sin will even cause death to a generation. We know of the lack of unbelief, Israel wander the wilderness for another 40 years so that they die there. We know how David's family were affected due to sin.. but after Jesus paid it, there are still people who assume possessing the license to sin.

Now like we understand, its about the chastisement.. but then again, I reckon its more of their spiritual condition, they weren't saved to begin with.
Else,
Matthew 7:18-20 ."A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them"

About our rewards, basically it is very straightforward. Bible says it as crowns, of which we give it back to the LORD. We would present our gifts to Him and rightfully so. What i think will happen is when we get to heaven, with our new body and sinless state, we realize how far we fell during our time on Earth, how sinful we were, and how much God gave us. Hence, we present our gifts to God out of our love and appreciation. Just a guess though.

Moving on, if you want to really grow deep into God's word, i suggest to put aside all other translations, and use only KJV. Read about why KJV as the most accurate translation to God's word and you will find out. I've read other translations before and a lot of God's word lost its meaning due to the inaccurate translation.

oh dear


KJV only is back

I think though not every translation is perfect, let just say we need all the translation for reference because we can never stick to just one translation.

Some people tells me NIVUK ver is more accurate. , Some people tells me New King James is better, Some prefer The Message translation.

What is safe, refer back to the Greek and Hebrew.

Biblehub.com can help you because it has most of the major translation.

Sorry for causing any confusion here, Im typing from a phone so I might have rushed in typing.

Most reputable bible teachers i follow don't think there's alot of problems with the english translations, but just keep in mind the niv is a dynamic translation, so probably not ideal for proper understanding.

Yea, and when you refer to Greek and Hebrew.. try compare using a NIV and a KJV to translate it back to the original language.. and then you will get what i mean...

And reputation does not mean accuracy..
in the end.. who is it that matters more? the person's reputation? or the Bible and God's word that he preaches?

Actually in Biblehub.com, you can click on the Hebrew/Greek page for each scripture verse and can further click on each hebrew / greek (depending OT or NT) word for the meaning. In there it will also tell you which other verse in scripture those words apply so it's hard to go wrong.

For example

http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-1.htm


you can see the most left side column, you can check each line. Once you go in there, you can see on the most right hand column which other verse apply of the same word used.

Then from there, you can also check with all the english translations available. (of course you have to come out to the main page)

Hope that helps.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 27 2017, 11:50 AM

i know bible hub, im using it.. in fact to make better study, you should go for Olive Tree Bible App..
Btw that feature is called Strong Bible verses where u can see alternative translations..

then again, most commercial apps have various 'famous' books which not all books are good for study or reproof.

Carnival only today!

Hi Gajindro sorry for not replying sooner.

I didn't want to be just the 'church goer'. The ones Christians complain most often other than the Easter-Christmas. To sing songs that honestly not being truthfully applied in my life. It's lying. It makes me feel guilty.

And then when there's a message calling for people to come serve to grow as a christian/show fruits of the spirit/prove that you're saved I just... can't take it anymore. There's a lot of things I want to do, I should do, but can't realistically do. So that's even more guilt and anxiety.

It's very difficult to explain to others. It's very easy to say "aiyah very easy mar just change your lifestyle here and there." But, I STILL fail that. Fail at the simplest stuff--

Ok I rather not continue or else it's going to drive me nuts.

I certainly do not know what is your lifestyle. But look at few of the important characters in the Bible, they all committed 'big' sins. Okay, there is no big or small sin but you'll get what I mean.

And speaking about singing songs, yes, I had the experienced such problem and even now when there is time that I am certainly not at the state as the lyric. So what I can do I just stop singing and pray. I believe that when we feel uneasy, it's when the HS speaks to us and remind us that we have this and that problem.

And a lot of misconception that people think that a Christian should and should not. i.e. Christian should go to church, a Christian should do pray, a Christian should read bible. Christian should not smoke, should not buy 4D etc..When things become should and should not, it then seems to show that we are still living under the law, instead of grace. But please do not get me wrong, I don't mean that Christian do not need to do so. What I would like to express is that when Christian understands His love and grace more and more, we will do it in our own will. And we will hope that our lifestyle will resemble and glorify Him.

There are still a lot of times that I still fail over and over at the same sin. But I believe that when you truly confess before Him and seek for His help, through the HS, He will able to change you and me.

Again, I don't know how's your current lifestyle like. Your lifestyle might actually be better than me, we don't know. But think about it,what makes you think that your lifestyle/habit is keeping you away from God? Are these things/people/addiction that keep you away from Him? And are you prepared to leave this thing/people/addiction behind so it will not be temptation to certain lifestyle/habit. I do believe that it is very hard to change certain lifestyle but don't give up and keep seeking strength from Him to stay way from it.

You do not need to answer me since it's just for own reflection.

My thinking is that going to church is not just about worshiping Him, since we can worship Him anyway anytime. It's also about sharing and encouraging each other.

"not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near." - Hebrews 10:25

I hope that we can be encouragement to each other and pray that we will able to encounter more of Him so that we are willing to 'let out nets and follow Him'.