Final Video to share. If you guys cannot get it, I cannot help you guys anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh3n1Y_J_ak&t=362s

LOL. Don't debate, just submit to Sylar.

I have to agree with you on this, he believes that only his theory is correct the rest heretics

The trinity is all over in the old testament, sylar. The doctrine of trinity has been tested for many hundreds of years.

The " with" here in Greek is Pros ton the on, it conveys the meaning of "face to face" and equality. So the Word (Jesus) was face to face, was God but yet distinct with the Father.

I dont know how else can you read this verse.

Scripture clearly makes a distinction between the Father and the Son.

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Jul 3 2018, 05:13 AM

There are many instances where while in English, it does not show up the multiplicity of God, the original texts indicates that.


For eg: Let us make man in our image


While the noun is plural, the verb make is singular.


The question to ask is where in the OT does it indicate the triune nature of God. This is because its been accused that the NT was changed to emphasise on Trinity doctrine eg Matt 28:19 where the command to baptise in the three and yet in Acts we do not see this prcatice.

I believe this is the clearest indicator in the OT of the compound unity of God

Isaiah 48


13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.
16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Most of us believe that Salvation cannot be lost once given.

But then I came to this question,

Can we lose our faith?

As we should know, it is IMPOSSIBLE to earn salvation without faith. What if I am a christian who rarely or never exercise my faith that it becomes a dried up pitiful little thing hidden in the far corner of my heart? Is that akin to losing my faith?

There is a way to lose Salvation.

If you purposely slap away God's grace and you tell God to judge / assessed you based on what you do, whether you're able to meet up with his standard of holiness...and that would include you trying to adhere to obey God and all his commandments.

Based on that, you can lose it.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 5 2018, 10:14 AM

When the Bible talks about faith, you have to differentiate between salvation of the spirit and the salvation of the soul.

The earlier is related to regeneration. The typical verses of being saved by faith and not perish. But the experience of faith is continuous subjectively.

For example:

“Them who have faith to the gaining of the soul” (Heb. 10:39).
“Receiving the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls” ( 1 Pet 1:9)

The Lord mentioned in Matt 16:25 which is related to daily salvation from losing our soul-life; it is obtained by our willingness to pay the price of sacrificing our soul. Eternal salvation is related to the enlivening of our spirit, whereas the salvation spoken of here is related to finding the soul-life. Save refers to receiving a reward when the Lord returns in glory because we were willing to deny ourselves, take up our cross, follow the Lord, and lose our soul-life for the Lord’s sake.

is it possible to lose faith after regeneration? ie continue sin wilfully

Oh ya. Faith is to apply subjectively what Christ has accomplished in your daily life. To have a sinful life, you are not enjoying Christ’s death(Gal 5:24), for example.

To be shaken is to lose faith. It is to lose the view of the objective faith and also to lose the subjective ability to believe!

But nothing to do with eternal salvation. The 1st faith is your spirit is enlivened. But your soul requires whole life.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jul 5 2018, 01:39 PM

The only way to lose one's salvation is to apostatize. Reject God altogether.

thanks for clarification

I would think God is faithful and his promise and grace never change. as long as we repent, we will be in communion with him. and the water of life will flow in us

Well, that's another consideration.

I can agree with you if you said to meet up His standard of holiness with our flesh. That will be an impossible task.

But we are talking about a saved christian, a person driven by the Holy Spirit just like when Jesus was a man when He was filled with the Holy Spirit.

To think we can lose salvation if we try to become Holy and avoid sin when the Holy Spirit is with us is distrusting the mighty Grace of God. Nothing is impossible for God even to defeat all iniquities of this world. Jesus did that, He paved the way, so can all those He declared Righteous. We are told to walk like He did, to become like little Jesuses of this world.

Your opinion btw is contradicting these verses,

Ezekiel 36
27 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
28 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Two salvations?
Daily Salvation?
Soul-life?

Those terms are alien to me to be honest. Anything that are not explicitly written in the scriptures are all unnecessary distractions.

As far I know Matthew 16:25 is all about trusting the Lord. But I may need to study this further as it may contain other meaning.

But the experience of faith is continuous subjectively

I can agree on this but yet we are always given the free will to choose to remain faithful (trust) or not.

What do you mean by our "willingness" to sacrifice our soul? Death is not something to be "offered". Our death has no value at all as we are all sinners to begin with. We have no birthright in Heaven.

Yes, one will eventually lose one's faith if one continues to remain in sin preferring the darkness than to light, like the unrepentant who will die in their sins.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Jul 5 2018, 10:59 PM

Hey Bro....

I think here is where a lot of us missed it. I'm not saying don't obey God. I'm saying as what you said above...that one cannot meet God's standard by our performance and that would include trying to meet up to God's standard via his commands. Many of us subconsciously do that unknowingly.

Besides..we are made saints, made righteous, given this divine status by Grace and it comes from receiving it by Faith.

This is where the devil has a hold on many..because he always point your status as saint back to yourself by what you do when God wants you to be pointed to Christ as your righteousness. We always equate righteousness and holiness based on what we do with our performance when it's a grace gift.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 6 2018, 02:23 PM

; The Triune God is not explicitly written in the scripture. But I understand where you are coming from. Usually we use terms to somewhat systematize a thought within a group of texts. Of course, it must be driven by entire testimony of the Scriptures.

Salvation:
There is no two salvations, but rather A complete salvation (Romans 5:17). In other words, our understanding of salvation usually means only redemption, regeneration and waiting to go to heaven. This is a very shallow understanding of salvation. It encompasses our entire life: sanctification, transformation, conformation, glorification etc. This is salvation.

Daily:
This is just a easier terms to use leh: Are you saved from murmurings, reasonings, blame, guile, blemishes, crookedness, perverseness, and darkness (Philippians 2). Is this daily? Moment by moment?

In 1:19 Paul says, “I know that for me this shall turn out to salvation.” As a prisoner in Rome, Paul needed a practical salvation. Suppose someone spoke to him about eternal salvation. Paul could have said, “Brother, don’t talk about something so remote from my present situation. I am a prisoner in chains. I need a salvation that can be applied to this situation.” He needs to be saved from depression, discouragement, the churches problems etc.

That is what I meant by daily.

Soul life:

^^;;;; The Lord uses it in Matthew 10:39. So we must consider it Most translations translate it as just life ... the natural life (in the footnote). Though in Greek, it is psyche, where we have English word, psychology.

Paul is an example, he really suffered his entire life for the Lord and His church but He gained God as the bountiful Spirit.

Another example, in the earlier chapters especially the sermon on the Mount in Matthew. All the requirements demands that we put down our natural life. We won't feel comfortable because naturally we love ourselves.

Let's pick Matthew 10:37 : He says, "He who loves father or mother above Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter above Me is not worthy of Me."

The Lord used the word hate to show the disciples the kind of attitude they should hold toward the love that issues from the soul-life. Strictly speaking, when believers love their kinfolks, their relatives, or their lovers, they should not love them because they are their loved ones. They should not love others just because these are their lovers or their father, mother, brothers, sisters, wife, or children. This kind of natural love comes from the soul-life. We also do not love others who are not lovable.

The Lord Jesus wants to remove all of our direct love toward men. The Lord has no intention that we would not love men. His intention is that we would not exercise our own love to love men, but that we would love with His love.

To experience this, the soul-life must pass through death. This bearing of the cross, obedience to Christ, and rejection of our natural affection will cause the believers' natural love to suffer and to feel pain. This suffering and pain is the way to lose the soul-life with respect to its activities of love. When, on the cross before God, the soul-life loses its own love, it will indeed give room for the love of God to be poured out in our hearts.

It is not a death to our physical life ...but we pay the price to gain God with our soul in which Paul meant to work out our salvation.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jul 6 2018, 09:33 AM

You've been consistent on this. Maybe some other time we can discuss again on this matter of reaching holiness.