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 LYN Christian Fellowship V13 (Group), ALL about Jesus Christ.

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prophetjul
post Mar 2 2018, 02:40 PM

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yeeck

RCC acknowledge that Allah of the Muslims is the same Creator as Christians?

QUOTE
  841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

prophetjul
post Mar 5 2018, 08:36 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 2 2018, 04:41 PM)
There is only one God creator of all whether Christian or otherwise.

However, "for all the gods of the Gentiles are devils" - Ps 96:5. The Islamic teaching that rejects the Trinity and Jesus as the Second Person of the Trinity would be false, thus in that sense they would not be worshipping the same God as we do.

Similarly, for Protestants to deny that Jesus said the consecrated bread and wine is truly His Body and His Blood would mean they worship a different Jesus from us. rolleyes.gif

Did you know that Islam was considered a Christian heresy of the 7th century back then?
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QUOTE
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330


This statement implies Allah and Yahweh are the same god. So your statement that they would not be worshipping the same God as we do does not seem to line up with the statement in your RCC Catechism.

Maybe we do worship a different Jesus. We do not make an idol out of Him! laugh.gif

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 5 2018, 09:23 AM
prophetjul
post Mar 5 2018, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(MPIK @ Mar 4 2018, 12:38 PM)
Asking atheist to believe in christ is damn more difficult to ask a Buddhist to believe in christ..

They will ask all kinds of difficult or funny questions that even some Christians finding it hard to answer.

During CNY, we chat for 4 hours among our friends which also includes a bunch of atheist and my Christian friends all look clueless..

True story. Not easy to deal with atheist.
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Atheists are different animal.

They are called A-theist for a reason. That they reject the concept of Theos. So they approach everything with this mindset.
Next they will try to use 'science' to justify their reasoning not knowing that their 'science' is also a belief system as science is based on numerous ASSumptions in itself. Therefore one needs to 'believe' the ASSumptions to get to the perceived conclusions.

So Yeah, short of God appearing to them personally, you will have a hard time to reason with them unless they are serious in seeking like the 'free thinkers'.
prophetjul
post Mar 5 2018, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(Hoka Nobasho @ Mar 5 2018, 10:15 AM)
Nope, both atheists and theists are homosapiens, which is why there are Christians who are ex-Christians who became an atheist and vice versa, while being the same species in the animal kingdom.


You forget to add that ex Atheist who were SErious in finding out, managed to rationally argued their way to becoming Christians.
I am not referring to your biological specie, but to your worldview and mindset.
You should de construct my paragraph to make an out of context statement.

QUOTE
Nope, atheists do not reject the concept, we merely do not believe in it. It would be like saying we reject the concept of the invisible pink unicorn when it's clear that we merely do not believe in it in the first place to even have the capacity to reject or accept the concept at all.

Well, this is not about the invisible pink unicorn. Did you read about Jesus in its context? Or you just rejected it without research?
OR you just like to take scriptures verse and make God as a blood thirsty, vengeful being?

QUOTE
Nope. Not all atheists use science as reasoning. Simple examples include Buddhist atheists who uses the spiritual teachings of Buddhism as a guide i life as opposed to the belief of an existence of a god or gods.

The second nope here is that science is not a belief system based on assumptions It is a method of investigating reality by testing hypotheses in order to ensure that the withstand the veracity of claims so that whenever they're being tested, it is shown to be true. Science is also not dogmatic like a "belief system" as new evidence can overturn any previous scientific understanding, and then move on with the new understanding thanks to the new evidence.

Most Atheists would use science as the evidence to the absence of God.

Most tests have its own set of assumptions.
Yeah...science is a changing chameleon, depending on its controlling environment and what suits it.
God's TRUTH is unchanging. Its absolute and non moving, non dependat on MAN's moods and evil desires. That's the reason it is dependable and trustworthy because the originator is not a chameleon.

QUOTE


That depends on whether if atheists believe in a god or not, but if they do, then they wouldn't be called an atheist anymore, wouldn't it?
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An Atheist who believes in God is an oxymoron. Well, they always say, "if God showed Himself, then I may believe"
Well, He did in Jesus Christ. Go and research as a scientist and then conclude.
prophetjul
post Mar 5 2018, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(flyingmalayman @ Mar 5 2018, 03:21 PM)
Yeah ur right, many Muslim scholar think that Muslim and Christian worship different God, but Muslim and Jew might been worshipping the same God. U can google this
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google to find out Muslim and Jew might have been worshipping the same God? laugh.gif

Allah has no Son. Allah has no relationship with his word.

Yahweh has His Son. Yahweh's Word was with Him from the beginning.
prophetjul
post Mar 6 2018, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 6 2018, 12:09 AM)
I admit that statement in the CCC is rather careless as it seems to be written by someone with an ecumenical mindset rather than precise doctrinaire language. However, at best we can only say the same God is one Creator of all, whether Christian or not.

If you mean making images of Jesus is equivalent of making an idol of Him, heck even Protestants make use of images of Jesus. laugh.gif
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THAT was a statement from your CATHECISM. You can say what you like. BUT that is the stand of your RCC. That's HERESY.

IF you disagree with this, why don't you bring it up with your bishop, cardinals and POPE?
The pope seems to be ok with this statement? No?

Heck, I am not one of those who needs a graven image to worship the Creator God, ESPECIALLY when He specifically FORBIDS it.
prophetjul
post Mar 6 2018, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(Hoka Nobasho @ Mar 6 2018, 10:26 AM)
I would love to correct the massive and blatant misconceptions and the misinformation here about atheists, but this is the Christian Lounge, and we think we shouldn't discuss about atheism here. Would you like to continue our discussion in the LYN Atheist and Agnostics thread instead?
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No.

Since you are here, please clarify it here to all the Christians here.

Thanks
prophetjul
post Mar 6 2018, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 6 2018, 11:58 AM)
Pope Gregory VII also wrote something similar to a Muslim Sultan:

"For there is nothing which Almighty God, who wishes that all men should be saved and that no man should perish, more approves in our conduct than that a man should first love God and then his fellow men ... Most certainly you and we ought to love each other in this way more than other races of men, because we believe and confess one God, albeit in different ways, whom each day we praise and reverence as the creator of all ages and the governor of this world."

However, the Church does not teach that Muslims are saved by Islam and Christians are saved by Christ. She's not denying the need to evangelize even to the Muslims. Thus the issue on that sentence if read alone is that it can be misinterpreted.

Believing in the One God is not the same as believing in the Same God.

Not all statues are not idols, as I've explained in many posts in the Catholic thread before and also to rabid anti-Catholics like sylar. And certainly God did not forbid making images.
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'Different ways'.....hmmm......includes salvation perhaps. By declaring the above statement tells the Muslims that we are worshipping the same god. Allah and Yahweh are same, revealed 'differently'. HERESY.

If the revelations to Muhammed are true, Christianity is false. God is no chameleon. He does not change according to the whims and fancies of man.

Not all statues are idols.

BUT ALL STATUES ARE GRAVEN IMAGES.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6459 pesel: an idol, image
Original Word: פֶּ֫סֶל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: pesel
Phonetic Spelling: (peh'-sel)
Short Definition: image
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from pasal
Definition
an idol, image
NASB Translation
carved image (2), graven image (14), graven images (1), idol (10), idols (3), image (1).

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 6 2018, 04:21 PM
prophetjul
post Mar 6 2018, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 6 2018, 04:37 PM)
Definitely not salvation unless you want to read it further than what it says as it is.

As for graven images, interesting that God in the OT allows graven images to be carved for religious purposes. smile.gif
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The statement alone that we worship the same god is HERESY.

Definitely the images such as the cherubims are not meant to be worshipped, bowed before. These were given on strict instructions from God Himself.

However, RCC likes to take it further that worship, veneration, bowing, kissing of statues of Mary and Jesus are greatly encouraged.
Did God give you that instruction to make graven images of Mary and Jesus and to be venerated and worshipped, etc?
prophetjul
post Mar 7 2018, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 6 2018, 05:01 PM)
It did not say the Same God, it says the One God.

Quick one, did God ask Protestants to kneel down in front of their bibles as if they are worshipping their bibles? laugh.gif
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You are trying real hard to split the straw


In CONTEXT


QUOTE
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330


I do not kneel down before my bible...

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 7 2018, 11:59 AM
prophetjul
post Mar 8 2018, 09:06 AM

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yeeck

In case you forget

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

WE are ALL priests to God.
prophetjul
post Mar 12 2018, 09:18 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 8 2018, 11:50 PM)
First of all, a careful reading of 1 Peter 2, verses 5 and 9 reveals a reference to Exodus 19:6: ". . . and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." This text from Exodus indicates a universal priesthood in the Old Testament. And yet, in Exodus 19:22, we read, "And also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves . . . " In other words, a universal priesthood in the Old Covenant did not exclude the possibility of a distinct ministerial priesthood as well. It would be natural then to expect the same in the New Covenant. And indeed, that is precisely what we discover.

By virtue of the sacrament of baptism and confirmation which gives an indelible mark on the soul, all of us are of truly priests, prophet and kings. However, this priesthood is not the same as that of the ministerial priesthood. The laity are distinguished from both the clergy and religious because their true consecration in the Church is of a secular nature. The use of these terms means, more generally, worship (priest), witness (prophet) and service (king). In this sense there is a continuity with the priesthood of the Old Testament which prefigured the New. In the OT, there is one high priest and other priests in the Temple. In the NT, Christ is the Eternal High Priest, and He chose His Apostles as His ministerial priests and in turn laid hands on others to continue their work.

This fact is recognized even by the early Church Fathers:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


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Indeed the phrase was a reference to Exodus 19:6."

However, the epistle of 2 Peter was to Christians outside of Israel. "......"to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

AND yet you refer to the OT and not abide by OT rules on the priesthood. Do you have a temple now? Are your priests in the temple after the tribe of Levite?

The ministerial priesthood and laity division is derived to control the laity as the Lord in His warnings against the Nicolaitanes in REv 2.

Yes, there is hierarchy of bishops and deacons. However, all are priests unto the Lord.

Further on the qualifications of the bishokopos, (elder)

QUOTE
This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil


WHY then does the RCC forbid their bishops to be married????
prophetjul
post Mar 12 2018, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 12 2018, 10:22 AM)
Guess who wrote that? St Paul! And he wasn't even married, yet he is an Apostle (bishop).
Jesus Christ is the Eternal High Priest after the order of Melchisedech (Hebrews 7:13-17) who is both King and Priest. He is not a descendant of Aaron. Levites are not priests but more of the helpers in the Temple, similar to deacons in the New Testament. Catholic priests are also called alter Christus (another Christ) when they repeat the command of Jesus to consecrate bread and wine into His Body and Blood. This is why in the Eucharist, the priest says "This is MY Body, this is MY Blood", not "This is His Body, this is His Blood", even though in essence it means the same thing.

As for the Nicolaites, they are a Gnostic sect. Nicolas abandoned his wife because of her beauty, so that whoever wanted to might enjoy her; the practice turned into debauchery, with partners being exchanged in turn. John condemns them in the Apocalypse, saying (2:6): “But this thou hast, that thou hates the deeds of the Nicolaites." This means they practised ritual prostitution and sexual immorality, and Rev 2 has nothing to do with the question on ministerial priesthood. According to certain authors, they did so because they believed in the antinomian heresy, believing that grace released them from the obligation of observing the moral law.  shocking.gif
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An apostle is not a bishop. A bishop is an elder in a congregational community. Apostles tend to move around.

Are the modern priests after the order of Melchizedek? Nope. There is only ONE, Jesus. But all are priests unto the Lord, for the umpteenth time.
Diid Jesus said only 'ordained' preists are allowed to bless the symbols? Nope. He only instructed that you do this as oft as you meet in remembrance of Him.

Not all Levites are priests. But ALL priests are from the tribe of Levi.

The Nicolaites were like the institutional priests nowadays, control of the sheeple. THat Jesus hates these controlling ministers.

The passage in 1 Tim 3 is not forcing a bishop to marry. Rather, it shows that a bishop CAN marry, unlike the instructions of the RCC to forbid their priests from marrying, adding like the Pharisees to God's instructions. Blind leading the blind.
You are missing this point.

The passage is not about a widow or widower as you have insinuated with a cut and paste. Its about the qualifications of those who wish to serve in the leadership. And CLEARLY a bishop is allowed to get married and have a family.


prophetjul
post Mar 12 2018, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 12 2018, 01:53 PM)
All the Apostles are bishops.

For the umpteenth time, ministerial priesthood is not the same as the universal priesthood of the baptized of which the OT roles are but a prefigurement of the New.

Priests serve in the place of Christ and therefore, their ministry specially configures them to Christ. As is clear from Scripture, Christ was not married (except in a mystical sense, to the Church). By remaining celibate and devoting themselves to the service of the Church, priests more closely model, configure themselves to, and consecrate themselves to Christ.

As Christ himself makes clear, none of us will be married in heaven (Mt 22:23–30). By remaining unmarried in this life, priests are more closely configured to the final, eschatological state that will be all of ours.

Paul makes it very clear that remaining single allows one’s attention to be undivided in serving the Lord (1 Cor 7:32–35). He recommends celibacy to all (1 Cor 7:7) but especially to ministers, who as soldiers of Christ he urges to abstain from "civilian affairs" (2 Tm 2:3–4).

Canonically, priests cannot marry for a number of reasons. First, priests who belong to religious orders take vows of celibacy. Second, while diocesan priests do not take vows, they do make a promise of celibacy.

Again, celibacy is a discipline of the Church and not dogma, so if the Church for a good reason decides to change that in the future, it certainly has the authority to do so.

And again, you had a false view of the Nicolaites who practised sexual and ritual immorality and was condemned in Rev 2 because of that, not because of the institutional priests. Their founder Nicolas was a deacon after all.
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Nonsense. An apostle is a different ministry to that of a bishop.

apostolos: a messenger, one sent on a mission, an apostle
Original Word: ἀπόστολος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: apostolos
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os'-tol-os)
Short Definition: an apostle, a messenger, an envoy, a delegate
Definition: a messenger, envoy, delegate, one commissioned by another to represent him in some way, especially a man sent out by Jesus Christ Himself to preach the Gospel; an apostle.

episkopos: a superintendent, an overseer
Original Word: ἐπίσκοπος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: episkopos
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-is'-kop-os)
Short Definition: overseer, supervisor, ruler
Definition: (used as an official title in civil life), overseer, supervisor, ruler, especially used with reference to the supervising function exercised by an elder or presbyter of a church or congregation.

You keep on yapping about priest in place of Christ. Who instructed you to do that?
WHO instructed your priest to be celibate? Doctrines of devils?

Coincidently in 1 Tim4, after that passage

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Hello. We are not in heaven yet. We are still here on earth where this is marriage instructed of God.

Indeed Paul recommended BUT instructed is one cannot be celibate,

7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

Indeed your preists are 'burning'!

Marriage was instituted from the beginning in Genesis by GOD. It is NOT the affairs of civilians!

The RCC has added a non sensical instruction of celibacy to its priests, a doctrine of devils. Causing the men to 'burn' in lusts!


prophetjul
post Mar 14 2018, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 12 2018, 02:53 PM)
You quoted Paul recommended celibacy but still say one cannot be celibate? Are you saying Paul is a hypocrite or Jesus Christ Himself? How blasphemous! Again, the Catholic Church does not forbid marriage since it is one of the seven sacraments, but the vow of celibacy is taken by those who are called to that state and willingly, no one points a gun at them to take on celibacy.

Who instructed priests to take the the place of Christ? Well Christ Himself delegated this authority, of course. "Do this....." and authority to bind and loose "And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."
icon_rolleyes.gif

BTW not sure what you mean by not the affairs of civillians (Huh?)
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Paul recommended but did not instruct celibacy. Fact he encourage marriage if the individual cannot withstand temptations.

I did not say one cannot be celibate. I said the scriptures has no instructions for priests to be celibate. On the contrary Paul says he should be husband of one wife. Do you even read properly?

I could have sworn, that ALL the RCC priests where I am are UNMARRIED. Coincidence?
Would you like to refute this?

QUOTE
In 1075 Pope Gregory VII issued a decree effectively barring married priests from ministry, a discipline formalized by the First Lateran Council in 1123. Since then celibacy has been required of Roman Catholic priests, though the Catholic churches of the East have continued to allow priests to marry before their ordination.


http://www.uscatholic.org/glad-you-asked/2...riests-celibate

Christ delegated authority to ALL believers, who are priests unto the Lord.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 14 2018, 01:35 PM
prophetjul
post Mar 16 2018, 09:22 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 16 2018, 08:24 AM)
You cannot lose as a believer!


Romans 5:20 (WEB - World English Bible) - The law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace abounded more exceedingly;

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
.

What is this mechanism? Apostle Paul wrote it as

"where sin increased, grace increased all the more" in Romans 5:20. Notice the portion difference. What this means is that, Today even when you have failed, you can approach God's throne of Grace and obtain "GRACE" in a MUCH more portion over the area where you fall.

Do you see this?

Grace abounded much more! I repeat....IT IS MUCH MORE than the sin. One more time " IT IS MUCH MORE HYPER ABOUNDED OVER INCREASED" in portion of ..."GRACE".

If you will receive this Grace every single time you've failed, YOU CANNOT LOSE! You will always be close and tight with God

God Bless

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Don't stop there. Stopping there will be short of the whole perspective as Hyper grace preachers says ' you can sin in future, no problem"

But Paul says

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Go. Sin No MORE.

prophetjul
post May 22 2018, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ May 22 2018, 01:45 PM)
Have you noticed that all the important doctrines in the bible are paradoxes?

Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. How can anyone be 200% of something?

God is sovereign but man is accountable for his actions.

Why pray when everything has already been for-ordained?

When met with these truths, we just have to accept them. The human mind cannot comprehend these truths.

I suppose same goes with the Trinity. Everytime someone tries to make it comprehensible you either end up with polytheism or modalism.
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Best explanation! laugh.gif

As if man can concoct words good enough to describe the Almighty! Rather oxy moronic! The atheist is always demanding this.
prophetjul
post Jul 2 2018, 01:11 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jul 2 2018, 11:16 AM)
I believe I have already explained in the video. What else do you need?
My feelings do not count. I have already explained using the Bible that it is not biblical.
If I am not clear with my speech please let me know. Otherwise, you are obviously not "paying attention".
And it is also why you can never spot some of the clear errors in "Christianity".
If you cannot follow what I am saying, I have actually attached my "transcript" on scribd.
https://www.scribd.com/document/382913369/Trinity-Heresy

Anyway, I do not believe that I am doing a bad job explaining what I think about the trinity.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4610727

So I guess you were not paying attention.
That is why I said in the Video, in many cases, "Christians" are actually worse then non believers.
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Strange thing to post a Christian theological subject in REal World Issues section?
prophetjul
post Jul 2 2018, 01:18 PM

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Will never claim yo fully understand the compound unity of GOd as I am finite in my understanding.

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.
16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Isaiah 48
prophetjul
post Jul 2 2018, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jul 2 2018, 03:34 PM)
Just something for the unbelievers to think about.  I do not want to give the impression that our Christian faith is a fantasy.
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What for? Unbelievers will not know what it's all about. Theological discussion should be kept in the inner circles.
They already think Christianity is a fantasy.

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