in other word
you support violence occupation of west bank and Gaza
is that right?

..if your sins are more than your deeds, then Hell is waiting...if otherwise, welcome to Heaven..

There is a way to lose Salvation.

If you purposely slap away God's grace and you tell God to judge / assessed you based on what you do, whether you're able to meet up with his standard of holiness...and that would include you trying to adhere to obey God and all his commandments.

Based on that, you can lose it.

When the Bible talks about faith, you have to differentiate between salvation of the spirit and the salvation of the soul.

The earlier is related to regeneration. The typical verses of being saved by faith and not perish. But the experience of faith is continuous subjectively.

For example:

“Them who have faith to the gaining of the soul” (Heb. 10:39).
“Receiving the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls”  ( 1 Pet 1:9)

The Lord mentioned in Matt 16:25 which is related to daily salvation from losing our soul-life; it is obtained by our willingness to pay the price of sacrificing our soul. Eternal salvation is related to the enlivening of our spirit, whereas the salvation spoken of here is related to finding the soul-life. Save refers to receiving a reward when the Lord returns in glory because we were willing to deny ourselves, take up our cross, follow the Lord, and lose our soul-life for the Lord’s sake.

Hey Bro....

I think here is where a lot of us missed it. I'm not saying don't obey God. I'm saying as what you said above...that one cannot meet God's standard by our performance and that would include trying to meet up to God's standard via his commands. Many of us subconsciously do that unknowingly.

Besides..we are made saints, made righteous, given this divine status by Grace and it comes from receiving it by Faith.

This is where the devil has a hold on many..because he always point your status as saint back to yourself by what you do when God wants you to be pointed to Christ as your righteousness. We always equate righteousness and holiness based on what we do with our performance when it's a grace gift.

; The Triune God is not explicitly written in the scripture. But I understand where you are coming from. Usually we use terms to somewhat systematize a thought within a group of texts. Of course, it must be driven by entire testimony of the Scriptures.

Salvation:
There is no two salvations, but rather A complete salvation (Romans 5:17). In other words, our understanding of salvation usually means only redemption, regeneration and waiting to go to heaven. This is a very shallow understanding of salvation. It encompasses our entire life: sanctification, transformation, conformation, glorification etc. This is salvation.

Daily:
This is just a easier terms to use leh: Are you saved from murmurings, reasonings, blame, guile, blemishes, crookedness, perverseness, and darkness (Philippians 2). Is this daily? Moment by moment?

In 1:19 Paul says, “I know that for me this shall turn out to salvation.” As a prisoner in Rome, Paul needed a practical salvation. Suppose someone spoke to him about eternal salvation. Paul could have said, “Brother, don’t talk about something so remote from my present situation. I am a prisoner in chains. I need a salvation that can be applied to this situation.” He needs to be saved from depression, discouragement, the churches problems etc.

That is what I meant by daily.

Soul life:

^^;;;; The Lord uses it in Matthew 10:39. So we must consider it Most translations translate it as just life ... the natural life (in the footnote). Though in Greek, it is psyche, where we have English word, psychology.

Paul is an example, he really suffered his entire life for the Lord and His church but He gained God as the bountiful Spirit.

Another example, in the earlier chapters especially the sermon on the Mount in Matthew. All the requirements demands that we put down our natural life. We won't feel comfortable because naturally we love ourselves.

Let's pick Matthew 10:37 : He says, "He who loves father or mother above Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter above Me is not worthy of Me."

The Lord used the word hate to show the disciples the kind of attitude they should hold toward the love that issues from the soul-life. Strictly speaking, when believers love their kinfolks, their relatives, or their lovers, they should not love them because they are their loved ones. They should not love others just because these are their lovers or their father, mother, brothers, sisters, wife, or children. This kind of natural love comes from the soul-life. We also do not love others who are not lovable.

The Lord Jesus wants to remove all of our direct love toward men. The Lord has no intention that we would not love men. His intention is that we would not exercise our own love to love men, but that we would love with His love.

To experience this, the soul-life must pass through death. This bearing of the cross, obedience to Christ, and rejection of our natural affection will cause the believers' natural love to suffer and to feel pain. This suffering and pain is the way to lose the soul-life with respect to its activities of love. When, on the cross before God, the soul-life loses its own love, it will indeed give room for the love of God to be poured out in our hearts.

It is not a death to our physical life ...but we pay the price to gain God with our soul in which Paul meant to work out our salvation.

We can only love God for His sake. Otherwise it is natural and selfish. You love God with God's love out of being filled with His very inner essence to be His duplication (also from loving Him). Only by being filled with Him as the Love, can you love God for His sake. Not because you love Him for the sake of some persons, matters, or things.

We know it is not God's intention that we not love others; rather, He wants to direct our love. He wants us to love others not for ourselves, but for Him and also in Him.

Well, He knows where we are. So, He will touch us as we grow

Sure, I am not imposing a ultimate answer. It is just a discussion. But I do hope that you will consider what I posted. That there is another deeper layer (lack of a term) to consider the nature, essence and source of "God extending His love". It will transcend the thought of self-interest .... it is never even about us per se.

1 John 4:16 And we know and have believed the love which God has in us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God and God abides in him.

It is interesting that John does not say that God is love and that he who abides in God abides in love. Instead, he says that he who abides in love abides in God. To us, the former may seem more logical. But the latter is more practical and real. To say that we abide in God when we abide in love means that the very love in which we abide is God Himself. This indicates that the love that we have toward others should be God Himself. If we abide in the love which is God Himself, we then abide in God, and God abides in us. There is a union that we experience in His love.

There is no natural equivalent of this kind of description other than the love a man for a woman yet this is still too natural. I married my wife because of me i.e. I choose her out of attractiveness, personality, compatibility for my sake. And she also. Yet at times, there is glimpse that we do love for the others' sake.

The Bible do have a book, Song of Songs to describe this in type and picture:

Song of Songs is a romance between a great king (Solomon) and a country girl. However, these two do not match each other. In the same way, how could God with divinity marry a wife with humanity? They do not match. It must have been difficult for Solomon, the great king, to court a common country girl. If he had come to visit her in all his kingly glory, she would have been afraid of him. Therefore, the king became a "country man" in order to go to her village to court her, to gain her love. On the one hand, he made himself the same as the country girl; on the other hand, he made the country girl a queen. This is a type of the story of God's romance with man. He would marry a human being, just like the king would marry a country girl. Eventually, this country girl became Shulammite (a female version of Solomon), His counterpart.

Of course, we are not talking about teenage love ... got so much thrill LOL meh (hahahahahha). Well, there might be a little. But when we abide in God, there is freshness, sweetness and newness. When we say, "Lord, I love You" ... sure there is some. But that is just the consequence and result ... secondary.

Also, God wants to filled us with His love with which to love Him: The grace of the Lord which superabounded with faith and love in Christ to the apostle Paul for his dynamic and excellent salvation that he might be one of the greatest apostles ... 1 Tim. 1:14.

This layer of understanding, IMO, will put John 3:16 on another level. God loves <---- is not out of pitiful love but a romance in a union of God man in the highest sense. It uplifts your statement, "God extended ..." thought the Bible uses "we loved because God loved us (1 John 4:19)

Then when we come to your verses in John 15:

15:9 As the Father has love Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.

Out of abiding in His love (being filled), we go and bear fruit. The bearing fruit is the outflow of the divine love we enjoyed

Our work is the outflow of abiding in God (the earlier portion of John 15).

Paul said the same thing in Romans 5:5:

And hope does not put us to shame, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. Coupled with the verse above, he become the greatest apostle.

So, it is not from our perspective: "Oh I am weak, still selfish, but God still love me" .... Rather is, from God's view, "I will make you part of My Bride for My satisfaction because I love you". This is encouraging and full of hope

I am sorry but loving your neighbour does not equate to loving God by His standard, likewise with the second greatest commandment cannot be equal to the Greatest Commandment.

By the way, what is tldr ?

dude
the seventh commandment: you shall not commit adultery
this include pedophilia, adultery, fornication, homosexuality and etc
why the hate on homosexuality only? is it because one is straight so it is easy to obey and then give him sense of moral superiority?

are church gonna reject every single person who break the ten commandment?

Before anyone think Jesus is asking us to 'hate' their family, the word 'hate' is to love less in Hebrew.
This phrase is a Hebrew idiom.

Good you brought out the Abraham sacrifice.
Many think that they love God and go on in sin and expect grace to overcome sin. This is a false gospel.

Love demands action.
Faith demands action.
Grace demands action.

Therefore

Romans 4

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

And

James 1

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

same can be said of certain church covering for their pedophiles priests. and also adulterous pastor invoking the 'do not question the ordained by God' card. we are all sinners. none is morally superior than others
out righteousness is as if a filthy rag in front of God.
so I guess it is good time to stop single out certain sins of certain group just because you are not part of it and therefore can go chanting 'stone that sinner'
however there is a different between counseling a fellow brother on his sin than go full throttle 'you are going to hell' mode
so which are you?

Going back to Jesus' sermon on the mount, being angry with you brother for no good reason is equivalent to murder and looking lustfully at another lady is equivalent to committing adultery with her.

Reality is, we sin against God in speech, thought and act daily without even realising it. Even the tiniest selfish thought you have for a fraction of a second is sin.

In my own walk I am more and more sensitive to my sins everyday. Not even talking about porn and things like that, but things like fighting for a parking spot in the morning to work, you dont even realise you are being selfish.

I'm not the 'let go and let God' type too. I agree with the Christian synergism, we are called to work out our salvation, not work for our salvation. Big difference.

Actually God was already proven in Jesus.
You are thinking as a 21st century person to demand 'scientific' proof?

In the ancient ways, prophecies and their fulfilment were proofs of God, especially the messianic prophecies. That is how God proved His existence to Israel through His messiah.
Therefore,
If you go by how researcher's and real scientific proof, it is already done. That is the reason real serious researchers have come to know Jesus when ultimately the evidences prove God rather than disprove.

Guys, this thread has already reached it max capacity, so UW is going to close this thread soon but who want to take over as the new TS for this new CF thread?

Haledoch and Prophetjul or Desmond2020 willing to be the new TS? just copy and paste the first paste and add in the link for this thread version as well in the first first

Think what you are describing is blind faith.

We do not need to see Jesus personally, but we need to hear His word and believe it.

"And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
God does not promote blind faith. Indeed faith comes by hearing of His word. His word proclaims Himself.
Faith is not blind, but proven through His word.

Bro, you already this Sylar can't be trusted yet you asking him to open new thread?