Just a quick one on revelations 2.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Hmmm. Guess "defeated" christian needs to go through the second death as well. Ok.

Actually the idea that Christians need to go through Cleansing sounds pretty familiar. I think in the Catholic system, there is something called Purgatory.
I gotta say the Catholic Church is really something.

Sorry if you feel offended, if getting an answer from a 3rd party does not sit well with you. It was not my intention to garner support from outsiders, but to expand my view & also to learn whether the pastor's responses would be in line with mine to you. I apologize  .

Moving on to your response, I find the RED highlighted very difficult to digest & accept. It is simply illogical. 

Are you then, not in effect, saying that, just because one professes to believe in Jesus Christ, he has an unfair and HUGE advantage over the fornicating non-believer?

Would not, an unbeliever respond in disgust, & say, "Oh! just because you're a Christian, you can fornicate all you want, & get to heaven?"  BUT i'm a fornicator just like you, but i don't get heaven because i don't believe in Jesus?"

pehkay, can you not see the ludicrousness of this situation? Your presentation of this point is utterly ridiculous! It would even be more absurd if one who calls himself a Christian would be willing to ACCEPT that view! 

And i'm also confused with the BLUE highlighted. Never in my years of attending different protestant churches have i been taught this!

You're telling me there's a 3rd option? Because my Bible tells me if you don't make it to heaven, the alternative is hell. 

Perhaps your "Kingdom of Heaven" definition is different from mine. That's why i asked you what is outer darkness by your definition in my previous post. 

1) What are the "manifestation of kingdom of the heavens", like you put it?   

2) What do you mean by " will not inherit the kingdom of God"?  Is the kingdom of God not heaven?

I only understand that the sinning unrepentant Christian goes to hell for the Bible says "will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 24:51

Perhaps you're looking too much into what 1 Cor. 3:15 doesn't say? 

Your brand of Christianity will appeal to the wrong crowd.

Anyway, thanks for taking the effort to give me a long drawn out answer. It's much appreciated  . I can clearly see what all of our stances are, be it pehkay, UW, or zanness.

I knw we're all busy ppl in real life. So yes, i'll just have to live in peace with the majority of the Calvinist in here.

I guess i'm an Arminian until i get to heaven, then i'll be a Calvinist  
Thank You All!

I am not saying to be lawless since we are saved BUT RATHER, we have be perfect as the heavenly father is perfect. Our living and work will be judged at the judgement seat so we cannot be lax. We have a responsibility and accountabiltiy to God for our life and work in this age.

This means we have to live out Christ (Phil 1:21), love Him to the uttermost, mature in the divine life, faithful in our service (Luke 12:42-47), reign with Christ etc etc.

This is nothing to do with eternal salvation but rather, God is righteous in that if we do not experience his ongoing salvation, we will be disciplined - and NOT inherit the kingdom of the heavens as a reward.

This solved the favourite refutation thrown by the Arminianism view that we can just live as before since we are saved, and which the Calvinistic view did not address (false security and absent of visible fruits of Christian living).

Don't like that .... then someone will say something and we will be in trouble

I think it's only right we should at least give room to people....and not to make fun of another.

Some people loves belting out sarcasm befitting of a small child.

....
However, not all believers will participate in the millennium; only the overcoming ones will. The defeated believers will have no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God in the coming age.

It is righteous . The 1000 years millennium will either be a prize to overcoming believers or "summer school of outer darkness" to make us mature. Then in eternity, all will be fully the duplication of full expression of God on this earth.

The overcomers will enjoy it first i.e. the firstfruits. This is my goal today ... and it should be our goal.

It is interesting to note that this truth was present with the early church fathers.

The eminent church historian Philip Schaff writes,
Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Tertullian have also mentioned this. Justin, the greatest of the second-century apologists and the most prolific Christian writer:


"I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare. (Dialogue with Trypho)"

But to keep the story short, the first one who waver from it was Origen since he dislike it because of his tainted Gnostic view that the physical body, and the material world has no place in eternity. It is not easy for one avoid being entangled one from it.

After that, it went downhill .... this truth is almost gone and became the foundation of purgatory ...... hope yeeck didn't read this

That's why I seldom read the Bible but I did believe in God... no one told me about this when I accepted Christ until recently someone share with me this.
There's are tons and tons more of contradictions and here's I share a few.

Bible Inconsistencies - Bible Contradictions

John 1:1, 10:30 Jesus and God are one.
John 14:28 God is greater than Jesus.

John 3:17, 8:15, 12:47 Jesus does not judge.
John 5:22, 5:27-30, 9:39, Acts 10:42, 2nd Corinthians 5:10 Jesus does judge.

The quotation is from Justin Martyr’s book Dialogue with Trypho, written in Rome between a.d. 155 and 161. It includes a dialogue between a Christian (Justin) and a Jew (Trypho) following the failed Bar Kochba revolt of AD 135. Considering the fact that the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in the fighting and rebuilt upon it  with a temple to Jupiter on the old temple site, Trypho’s question must have been ringing in the ears of many Jews and Christians. Is God really still going establish his kingdom on earth with its capital in Jerusalem? Justin replies in the affirmative and indicates that most, but not all, Christians agree with him. It is an opinion, not shared by all the early Church Fathers. The destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem was foretold by Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself after the Jews rejected Him.

As for Purgatory, as long as the early Church believed in praying for the dead, then you have a basis for Purgatory. Just Google for the quotations if Origen is not to your liking

biggrin.gif Unfortunately, no. Now, you know me before that I do not subscribe to matter of "going to heaven" but this is another topic in the past. After all, the New Jerusalem is coming down, it will be pretty lonely in the heaven. biggrin.gif

That's why I seldom read the Bible but I did believe in God... no one told me about this when I accepted Christ until recently someone share with me this.
There's are tons and tons more of contradictions and here's I share a few.

Bible Inconsistencies - Bible Contradictions

John 1:1, 10:30 Jesus and God are one.
John 14:28 God is greater than Jesus.

John 3:17, 8:15, 12:47 Jesus does not judge.
John 5:22, 5:27-30, 9:39, Acts 10:42, 2nd Corinthians 5:10 Jesus does judge.

Exodus 34:6-7, Joshua 24:19, 1 Chronicles 16:34 God is faithful, holy and good.
Isaiah 45:6-7, Amos 3:6 God is responsible for evil.

Matthew 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin.
Ephesians 4:26 Anger is not necessarily a sin.

Matthew 5:17-19, Luke 16:17 Jesus did not come to abolish the law.
Ephesians 2:13-15, Hebrews 7:18-19 Jesus did abolish the law.

Matthew 1:16 Jacob was Joseph's father.
Luke 3:23 Heli was Joseph's father.

Joshua 11:20 God shows no mercy to some.
Luke 6:36, James 5:11 God is merciful.

Mathew 8:16, Luke 4:40 Jesus healed all that were sick.
Mark 1:32-34 Jesus healed many (but not all).

Timeline and overall sequences of the Bible and understanding the Bible from overall perspective..will help you to see there is no contradiction.

For example

Matthew 5:17-19, Luke 16:17 Jesus did not come to abolish the law.
Ephesians 2:13-15, Hebrews 7:18-19 Jesus did abolish the law.
In Matthew 5, Christ said in the same passage, HE came to fulfill the requirement of the Law..hence why the Law cannot be abolished (at that point in time). If it's abolished, how can He fulfilled it?
In Ephesians 2, After Christ Ascension,  He became the fulfillment of the Law...and He is the End of the Law for all who believe in Him, hence why the Law no longer has any imputation to the believers. Hence why it is abolished for the believers but at the same time still stand valid against unbelievers.

See the sequence.

actually what makes you trust the Bible so much?
all these years, I only believe in God in my heart but I don't read the Bible because I believe the Bible is the past... just history... we should focus on the future,

My tm modem router rosak. Right now depending on mobile data as emergency Internet so I'm trying to jimat

Same thing happened to my router few months back, my own router used it for 3 years before it decided to end it lifeline has no choice but to take up. Unifi new router and contract for another 1 years also my tm supplied modem also out at the same time got a new replacement for free

When that happens, it feels like no electricity.

On my end, my contract is technically over... but I opted to get the modem for free so renew another one year.