I thought the essence of a casual guild is that people level in their own pace which was stressed in the beginning. Some will be slower than others...looks like the guild's definition of casual is changing to hardcore....i haven't signed up yet because the line in my area is basically SH(*& and besides I wanted to see whether the guild was casual friendly as promoted.

Is there a maximum limit to how many players can be in a guild? e.g. maximum 200 or 300? If there isnt, then a simple comparison of level distribution between lets say 2-3 months will tell you approximately how many truly casual/slow levelers there are and the proportion of more serious/hard core players. Then to supplement lagging classes start opening memberships in tranches while still allowing the slowpokes to level at their own pace (albeit slowly) Review the class mix each 3 months and Voila! There is no need to kick anybody out..is there?

This is of course dependant on whether there is a limit on members joining the guild and whether the overall "spirit" of LoTH has not changed from a "welcome all" to just another "serious players only" guild.

ps: pleaseeee dont vote the pink colour!

point noted.


ps: pleaseeee dont vote the pink colour!

.....

when we said casual AND progressive, we meant that this guild is taking time to level at their own pace while progressing toward the objective (i.e end game instances and PVP). NOT casuals as in hi my name is casuals and i parked my nick here while i go play my main and thats the last time we see him/her. we are casuals in terms of the number of hours we commit in the game, which in this case, much lesser hours and liberal as compared to hardcore. let me just break this up into groups so u guys can properly understand. 

1) casuals who dont give a damn ---> 2) casual raiders (this is LoTH) ----> 3) hardcore (must attend every raid on weekend and weekdays) ----> 4) ultra elite. (omfg u dont log in 4 hours u are gkick!)

later as the guild progress we find that hey there are actually a lot of casual raiders (woking ppl, students, nubies, rerolls etc) which really suit the guild characteristics and we need to put some form of the rules, strategy, plan, idea, guide, in place to maintain the guild development. so dont confuse the word casuals as in casual guild that dont give a damn of the guild development. guild harmony and development is actually our major focus.

bottomline is, we are a casual guild, but we still have proper plan, rules and strategy in place so that every casuals out there who are unable to commit the requirement of a hardcore guild can still enjoy the game. thats why u join LoTH... without going mental.

....

I've explained my POV on the matter extensively in the officer forums, and suggested ideas there.

Its good that this topic has arrived now, its timely as we, as a guild, need to start talking about it openly -- a large chunk of the guild is approaching the level 30 zone, it wont be much longer before we have this group going into the 60s.

The OP is a "casual lah" player. There are many "casual lah"s in WoW, and i believe even in our guild presently. This is absolutely no problem whatsoever imo. We can have as many "casual lah" players, but when they join the guild, they must understand that's all there are entitled to as far as end-game raid privileges go.

Raiding is a completely different ball game. "Casual lah" players will find it hard to keep up with raid schedules, raid demands (3-4 hours per raid + 2-3 hours per day farming for money to pay for raid repairs & consumables). And to be fair to the other 25-40 people in the raid (i believe Blizz will bring back 40-man raiding in the near future for lvl 70s), those who join a raid should be what i call "raid committed" -- able to perform, willing to learn, ready to go the distance.

Otherwise, you'll just get raid after raid of wipes, frustrations and disappointment. Blizzard has designed many high-end encounters to require the best from all members of the raid -- so even if a few people stuff up, everyone will die = wasted time = wasted gold.

That's why i've been advocating a guild hierarchy based on what YOU (the player) wants to achieve from the guild.

If you declare yourself to be "casual lah" -- play when you want, level as you want, no one will ever remove or criticise you. There will be no expectations put upon you by the guild, and you know that whenever you play in Thaurissian, you will have a home with LoTH. The downside is that you cannot expect automatic invites to guild raids.

If you declare yourself as a "casual but wanna raid" -- then there will be certain expectations, things like raid schedule, things like willingness to farm for raid mats, etc. You won't be expected to attend all raids, but it would be nice if you could tell your class leaders when you'll be coming and when you can't come.

If you declare yourself as "hardcore raider" (and even LoTH will have a few of those), then you're an idea candicate to be a class leader, and you really, really enjoy raiding. Without having to be asked, you will attend all raids, only miss the odd raids here and there if you really cant make it, and will always want to have the best raid consumables ready = lots of non-raid farming time. The upside of this is that you will ALWAYS be picked first when raid invites go out.

Just like any pyramid, the guild can only accomodate a certain number of each type of player.

"Casual" players = unlimited number, no class restrictions, will only be invited to raid when there are spare spots and no one left online to fill them.
"Casual raider" = some restrictions in number, some class restrictions (about 25-30 ppl in this category, 3-4 per class), will be invited to raid based on class make-up.
"Core Raider" = definite restrictions in number and class (10-15 ppl, 1-3 per class), #1 priority for raid invites.

That's the problem the officers are currently facing now, and thats why we've had to freeze applications for the time being. We don't know who is really casual, and who has some commitment to raid. If all 100 members, when everyone is 70, want to raid, then we will have big problems, because we obviously cannot accomodate everyone. From experience, running multiple guild raids concurrently causes MASSIVE guild drama, and ultimately leads to guild splits.

At some point in the future, we'll probably need to ask people to declare their intentions in this guild. Our guild charter states that we want to be a guild for all Malaysians, but we also want to be able to make progress in the game (and in WoW progress = raids). By telling the officers what you want to do in WoW, it'll help us tailor the guild to suit as wide a base of playstyles as possible.

For future /ginvites, we should probably start asking new recruits what role they want to play in the guild. If they say they just wanna be casual, then that's an automatic invite. If they want to raid, then the officers must first analyze our raiding roster to see whether we have opening for another of that class. If there is an opening, then an invite is likely (pending a short trial period perhaps to see whether the player suits the raid), if there isn't an opening, then the application may be declined unless the player accepts a "casual" role (most raiders won't accept a casual role -- since they want to raid, they want to join a guild which can give them a raid spot).

Apologize, perhaps my wording was not accurate. I was appointed the guild raid leader, and my responsibilities include forming a successful raiding team. My comments were directed to those who intend to raid, but cannot commit themselves to the raid in a sufficiently appropriate manner. I know it sounds harsh, but i've got to think about the other 25-50 ppl who want to raid, and who make the effort to turn up to the raid well prepared.

For future /ginvites, we should probably start asking new recruits what role they want to play in the guild. If they say they just wanna be casual, then that's an automatic invite. If they want to raid, then the officers must first analyze our raiding roster to see whether we have opening for another of that class. If there is an opening, then an invite is likely (pending a short trial period perhaps to see whether the player suits the raid), if there isn't an opening, then the application may be declined unless the player accepts a "casual" role (most raiders won't accept a casual role -- since they want to raid, they want to join a guild which can give them a raid spot).

I understand this is an in-guild issue, but since its shared with the community in LYN, I would like to share some advice with you guys.

CASUAL V RAIDER
Litany of Fury used to have similar problems to what you guys had when we started. What we did to solve this issue was to split the guild ranks into the following...

No pink tabard?

8) Casual Peon - <65% raid attendance, including Alts.

, it takes a REAL MAN to wear pink!!! Haha

1) Commander (nitrofang)
2) 2nd in Command (valkyrie) (take over commander work if commander not around)
3) Vice Commander-1 ( shaderx, rantic, raichu) (promote, demote, ginvite, gkick, discipline officer)
4) Vice Commander-2 (create for backup plan)
5) Officers (sophiera, babynut) (forum, board mod, scout, class leader, raid leader)
6) Elite Raiders - >85% raid attendance
7) Casual Raiders - >65% raid attendance
8) Casual Peon - <65% raid attendance, including Alts.
9) Overthrown-Peon. (bad discipline).