Hi coffee gurus, I'm looking to get an expresso machine, budget around 2-3k and have narrowed it down to the following requirements.

Must haves
I believe these are the things that will actually have the most impact.
1) Double boilers/thermoblocks - Improve speed as I can froth while pulling the shot.
2) PID - Temperature consistency.
3) 58mm portafilter
4) Automatic, single/double shots selection, as it needs to be a bit user friendly for wifey, so fully manual on/off machines are out.
5) No built in grinder required, as buying powder pre-grinned.

Good to haves
1) Hot water dispensers = I can save countertop space, as no need buy separate water heater.

What would be the good options available to me?
I was considering the Gemilai 3200D, at approximately RM 2.8k, but the size seems huge and will take up a lot of counter space.

Units in consideration
Currently leaning towards Gemilai 3200D - Overall looks decent, but HUGE size
KD-210S2 or Carimali CM300 (same model I believe, just rebadged) - The size and features seems nice, but I read the portafilter is pressurized? I believe can replace?

Out of consideration
Seems like Milestos are all manual on/off machines do they have something with the single/double shot selection?
Breville that meets criteria 1-4 is out of my budget.

This post has been edited by eltaria: Apr 1 2021, 04:18 PM

Boss, I do not have any suggestion for a machine, but just want to suggest to opt for a dedicated grinder instead of preground as freshly grinded beans will have the most impact in overall taste of your espresso.

Hi guys. Forgive me if I'm a noob but hope everyone can help.

I'm a v60 drinker here. Always brew 700ml of coffee every morning for me and my dad.
I've been enjoying my Timemore C2 grinder a lot. I enjoy doing it in the mornings but there are times I wish there's an electric equivalent of my Timemore C2 grinder for my dad to enjoy when I'm working. He rather skips the grinding and drinks some overly sweet 3 in 1 Nescafe which isn't really good imo.


What is a good electric substitute for Timemore C2? And how much I will be expecting?

I'm definitely interested in Baratza Encore like how every redditor recommended but looking at the price in shopee it's like omg 2-3k price.

Don't think I can splurge a huge sum for a decent grinder. Any good recommendations for a cheaper alternative? What's the price I should be expecting out of a good electric grinder?

Budget: no more than RM500? (Or convince me if 500 isn't enough)
Burr type: I heard cone is superior but I don't mind a flat disc style
Noise level: Who doesn't want a quiet grinder? But if cheap loud grinder can give decent results why not? (I can always slap some car soundproof dynamat to those cheapo plastic body if needed )
Ease of use: Definitely prefer something easy. I wouldn't mind some hassle like crazy static in the hopper if I can clean the container externally with water and a sponge.


I'm eyeing at the Delonghi KG89 I recently saw in Harvey Norman and it looks pretty sleek for a little grinder. Reviews said it's no better than a blade grinder so I guess that's kinda out? Then shopee algorithms heard my voice and suggested to me Wellhome ZD-10T that sports conical burr grinder but I don't see any reviews out of it other than a brief overview.

Guess I can only rely on experts here.

Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by power911: Apr 3 2021, 01:07 AM

Grinding for 700ml v60 manually can be a hassle indeed. 😁

I know its over your budget but do give eureka mignon filtro a consideration. Currently around 950 ish..

I'm using Baratza Encore, reason being it was cheaper comparatively. No idea where you were searching, I bought mine from PPP Coffee, cost about the same as the link below. Which seems official and legit btw. It even comes in white now!

https://www.lazada.com.my/products/baratza-...cEiksU&search=1

There's a bit of retention and static build up (nothing can't be fix with a droplet of water, if you're willing).

Cleaning could be an ass on this machine, but it's cheap. lol.

It's well adequate enough for V60. Though espresso drinker might say otherwise.

Is this the one you're suggesting?
Never heard of this dankoff website but hey it's local
Loved the square-ish design too. Definitely will consider this


ooh, I didn't consider lazada since I've been browsing in shopee only. Cool cool. White definitely looks cool.

Thanks guys, now I got 2 options to choose

Unfortunately, based on ur usage requirements, Delonghi machine with pressurized portafilter will serve you better. There is unfortunately no way pre-ground coffee will work with your 58mm portafilter, you will be facing alot alot of frustrations.

!! Lol, I'll stick to my Aeropress if this is true.


Anyway, I am going with the Gemilai la, I still believe pre ground is not that bad, compared with a lot of setup I see where the self owned grinder is of questionable quality also.
A not so fresh (maybe couple weeks old, but perfectly sealed until unpacking) but properly grinded by your roaster will be better than a fresh beans, but grinded with subpar grinders....

I have seen a lot of setup, where a subpar grinder is used... and I am almost certain that the pre-ground is gonna be better.

Which model are you planning to get?
Heard good review for Gemilai machine on their price vs performance ratio.

Looking forward to your feedback

I second that. Tahan lasak also. Using Encore apart from replacing the Burr Holder now and then(PPP sells them about Rm20 each) going into 6 years of usage for V60.

This post has been edited by alvinfks78: Apr 6 2021, 09:37 AM

Mine is about 2 years in. So far so good. Though at time I wished it's quieter.

seriously..
if you're thinking about pre-ground with an expresso machine, it will be followed by lots of frustrations.
no vendor can pre-grind the coffee exactly for the said machine.. that's why we have to re-calibrate our grinders for new beans.

between Welhome and Gemilai.. you're on good ground with either of them.. but the WPM is an old trusted horse where as the Gemilai is a newer variant. Both are thermoblocks and kicks in within 2 min upon powering up the unit. We have the KD-201S2 here.. and been using them for over 6 years now..

trust me, don't waste money on them machines if you're solely on pre-ground.. we've been through this path.. for the lulz

i want to let go my red Oscar 1 + portafilter, anyone interested?

Pre-ground => Aeropress/Turkish/Mokapot/Flair Neo

Espresso Machine means => Heat Exchanger/Double Boiler + PID + Pressure Gauge + Include Espresso Capable grinder + IMS/VST basket + WDT + Levelled Tamper

Getting Gemilai => At least 1zpresso JE-plus espresso capable grinder.

been using gemilai 3605 for almost over a year now since MCO 1.0...
i would say it really does a decent job for its price...
summore i bought with set...means it comes with cheapo grinder...it still works but you will have hard time adjusting the grind level...but once u get used to it...no problem for me either...
was thinking to upgrade a better grinder..lol

Okay, noted. I do understand ideally, it's best to have a grinder, I'm not against it.

What I'm trying to say I guess, is fresh roasted pre-ground with good grinder vs not good grinders
(nothing against these owners, or maybe those machines can really give a good even grind size) But I feel, if I'm using these types of grinders, I'll have grind size consistencies issues, some will be coarser and some will be finer. If the ground size is inconsistent, that's a problem that you cannot fix, no matter what, u will get both over and under extracted coffee at the same time.

My idea of going pre-ground is, at least I believe the roaster's grinding machine is at least good enough to give a consistent grind.

If the ground size is at least uniform, then I can adjust the other variables (Coffee amount, brew time) to get the correct ratio, and an acceptable shot.
The roaster that I buy from, roast their beans fresh, I buy just a couple of packs at a time and it'll be used up within 1-2 weeks, to minimize shelf time.
Lastly, time and maintenance is also another aspect that I'm willing to trade.. again, lesser of the two evils thingy. In the morning when you're rushing for work, every minute counts


It's not ideal I know, but to me, it's the overall lesser of two evils la, where by a uniform grind size, will be the lesser evil, vs buying an own grinder on a budget, and getting uneven grinds.
Lesser evil, for me to pre ground, vs shelf space, or $$ to buy a good burr grinder
I'm open to getting a grinder possibly in the future, like I said, I'm not against it, but at the moment, overall it's a trade off I'm willing to accept. Let's see how it goes after a couple packets of extra fine pre-ground







This post has been edited by eltaria: Apr 7 2021, 10:46 AM

For example, this is a very very common setup that I see, being sold in a set, grinder + expresso machine.

To me, pre-ground from a reputable roastery with a good grinding machine is certainly gonna be way better than anything that comes out from this grinder..... in terms of the consistency



This post has been edited by eltaria: Apr 7 2021, 11:34 AM

Allow me to chime in with my (limited) experience/understanding of the matter.

Espresso is just one coffee brewing method, and is by no means the 'best'. Each brewing method has its own profile, and there is a lot of subjective preference in the matter. Espresso has been given a lot of exposure due to second wave coffee establishments like Starbucks and CBTL, and due to the equipment and process, has developed a lot of interest.

By definition espresso requires brewing under high pressures. These high pressures are achieved by the ground coffee packed in a tight puck, which acts as resistance to the incoming hot brew water. There is no other mechanism to create such back pressure in a conventional espresso machine. Certain home espresso machines simulate such high pressures by using a spring-loaded valve in the portafilter, making it a pressurised or double-walled portafilter. There is general consensus that the resultant brew may be good coffee, but does not have the taste profile of espresso when pulled properly using an unpressurized portafilter.

To achieve the 'correct' back pressure, the coffee beans need to be ground to meet certain parameters. These primarily are:
- fine enough to form resistance
- consistent in particle size to avoid paths whereby the high pressure water can blast through

In addition, because of variables in bean type, roast, portafilter dimensions, filter basket design, etc etc. the specific levels of the above parameters are not fixed. When brewing espresso, a process of adjusting a number of parameters must be performed (commonly referred to as "dialling in"). Most critical of this is the adjustment of the grind setting. As the adjustments are required to be very small, the grinder must allow for such small adjustments. Lastly, the dialling in process is iterative; you pull a shot and take note of the result, adjust some parameter, then pull another shot to see if it is better (or worse). There is no universally perfect setting.

It is therefore because of these three requirements (fineness, consistency and ability to make small adjustments) that it is imperative to get an appropriate grinder to pair with the espresso machine. Preground coffee may meet the first two requirements but would invariably fail on the third, even if the grinding was done on the very best and most expensive grinders.

Hope this helps.

understood, ok la, let's see how it goes, and i'll update again on what results i get later.

I'll go ahead with the gemilai 3200 and will play around with the extra fine preground.

If I can get the 1:2 ratio, 25 seconds time like that, no chanelling, it's good enough d.

I'll share on my experience later once I have the things in place

I've used grinders before, so I do understand the concept there, just that due to other considerations, I will have to work with my current constraints.

And if my experience is good, I hope that for those with entry level grinders, that it possibly could be an acceptable or even better experience if they switch to good pre-ground..
I've read somewhere that if you have to trade between a good pre-ground vs a low entry grinder, by all means, good pre-ground will be the better choice.

This post has been edited by eltaria: Apr 7 2021, 01:20 PM

Suddenly you popped a pressurized espresso machine as an example..
If you are planning to get a pressurized machine, then pre-ground is still ok, tolerable..
The point you brought up about a vendor's commercial grinder is definitely better than those blade/entry-level grinders are true. However, factor in these:
1. Vendor grinds the whole bag of beans a one go, if the setting is not suitable, the entire bag of pre ground may not be usable at all for the espresso machine.
2. Pre-ground oxidized very rapidly.. don't underestimate this, the espresso machine can pick it up..