Have you considered maybe it is not about the destination, but the journey of it? That is not about whether if there is an end, but if there is a meaning? Complicated, is really just another way of saying different, due to the difference we find in people, and calling them "not simplistic" in order to deny them freedom could be to hasty to pass that sort of judgement. And that meaning if simply the hunger for knowledge, not to satisfy it, but to create meaning in the momentum of celebrating and garnering the all that has been given to us in the universe, and to give meaning to our need of curiosity not as a curse, but as an acceptance of who we are.

That is why, new information is important, and if there are areas where science and religion has not covered accordingly, there's philosophy as well.


It would be refreshing if a Christian would begin taking other sources of wisdom that is not only from the bible. And the thirst is not for quenching. It is for meaning. Not by ignorance that by simply forgoing the need for curiosity.

Well, will be keeping my eyes on this thread.

Something interesting just pop out

Other sources of wisdom? u mean like the endless list of human philosophies tat the world offers?

Quotes like:

“One, remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Two, never give up work. Work gives you meaning and purpose and life is empty without it. Three, if you are lucky enough to find love, remember it is there and don't throw it away.” - Stephen Hawking

“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.” - William Shakespeare

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” - Albert Einstein

“Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try!” - Dr. Seuss

“Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.” - Lao Tzu

“I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only make them think” - Socrates

"To turn left, you must first turn right." - Derek Zoolander

and my absolute favourite :

"God helps those who help themselves." - anonymous humanistic philosopher


To the Kristian, the Bible is the Word of God. It's the final authority. To whom should we ascribe our moral standards, etc, then, if we're all over the place? What makes u think tat believers(unbelievers ) did not start off taking other sources of wisdom, as u put it, b4 finally still ending at the Bible?

I find my life significant ONLY by following Christ. It's the absolute crux of my very existence.

I don't find meaning in job promotions, or having even more money, or eating delicious food every day, or getting pissed drunk @ clubs, scoring more goals whenever i play football, etc. i'm sure u catch my drift........

I'm no longer curious. The thirst has been quenched. I have already found my meaning!

I've experienced the supernatural. I've tasted the Stars & nothing on this Earth wil ever b good enuf for me!

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. - Solomon, wisest man who ever lived -Ecclesiastes 12:13


But whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. - John 4:14

if GOD exist, then GOD will answer my prayer.
if GOD exist, when i throw the coin up it will stay afloat.

do you have any of this syndrome / trauma that made you agnostic ?

What if I tell you that Jesus Christ is still alive, right now, at this very moment (including the pre-Resurrection moment)? No, no. What I meant was how the bible was telling the story during the His life in the past, only that according to space, time, and the very nature of reality, that past could very well be at the present, and same goes for the future?



This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Jul 19 2015, 08:48 AM

Calvary Convention Center sure is big!

I didn't stay for the sermon though.

u remind me of the movie Looper & also another TV series (can't recall the title) where there were wormholes within wormholes, so the main actor could travel back & forth in time to visit the same Earth but @ different times/eras.

there were many, many versions of himself living life concurrently.....or something like tat. Heh!

anyway, or should i say UNFORTUNATELY, u r governed by the Laws of Physics & thus, ur physical body is not immune to the ravages of time/decay.

Can u move back & forth in time? if not, u r trapped/bound in the current reality. sori then

therefore, u r also FORCED to live in this time line.......til it ends.

The Bible says eternity begins for us, after the completion of all the dispensations. It takes approx~ 7000 man years. I strongly believe we are currently at the tail-end of the 6000 yrs.

Whether 'eternity' is governed by 'time', i don't know. The Bible doesn't say. God only promises a new Heaven & a new Earth.

perhaps the foloing chart would b easier for u to understand :



tat is y the Bible says,

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. - Rev 22:13

For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night. - Psalm 90:4

who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began - 2 Timothy 1:9


He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you. - 1 Peter 1:20

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love - Ephesians 1:4

Here is a verse tat tells us about the NATURE of Jesus's resurrected body :

“Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them.” - John 20:26

Jesus could have merely appeared in the room, for when a body moves from one dimension to two dimensions it does not go through anything, it merely moves there instantly; when a body moves from two dimensions to three dimensions, it does not go through anything, it merely moves there instantly. Therefore when a body goes from three dimensions to four, it would not move through anything, it would merely move there instantly.

God has promised believers they wil b given an incorruptible body.



my answer to u is, WHO CARES??!! can u control time & space? i'm positive u can remember ur past, but can u recall anything frm ur future?!! ur finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite things of God. i think that u think too much!

the God of the Bible dwells in a different dimension—the spirit realm—beyond the natural perception of our physical senses.

it’s not that God isn’t real; it’s a matter of Him not being limited by the physical laws and dimensions that govern our world. So deal wif it!

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. - John 4:24

A good readup.

"God isn't Bound by Time!"

by Eric Lyons, M.Min

Although for millennia Genesis chapter one had been understood as the original creation of the Universe that took place in six literal, majestic days, within the last two centuries many have been duped into believing that the billions of years required for evolution must fit somewhere within the first chapter of the English Bible. For numerous “Bible believers,” evolutionary dating methods have become the father of biblical interpretation. Therefore, we are told that God spent, not six literal days, but billions of years creating the Universe and everything in it. We frequently hear such statements as: (1) “God is not bound by time”; (2) “God could have taken as much time as he wanted while creating the Universe and everything in it”; and (3) “Billions of years could have elapsed between Genesis 1:1 and 1:3.” To say that Creation did not last millions or billions of years, supposedly, is to limit Almighty God.

There is no question that God is not bound by time. He is the infinite, eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing Creator. The point, however, is not whether God is outside of time (cf. Psalm 90:2), but what God has revealed to us—both in Genesis 1 and in the rest of the Bible. God could have created the Universe in any way He so desired; in whatever order He wanted, and in whatever time frame He so chose. He could have created the world and everything in it in six hours, six minutes, six seconds, or in one millisecond—He is, after all, God Almighty (Genesis 17:1). But the question is not what God could have done; it is what He said He did. And He said that He created everything in six literal days. When God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments, He stated:

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it (Exodus 20:8-11, emp. added).

This Sabbath command can be understood properly only when the days of the week are considered regular 24-hour days.

Based upon God’s use of words throughout Scripture which represent time periods that are much longer than a regular day (cf. Genesis 1:14; 2 Peter 3:8), we can rightly conclude that God could have revealed to man that this world was created over a vast period of time. [He could have used the Hebrew word dôr, which means long periods of time.] The fact is, however, God said He created this world and everything in it in six days (Genesis 1; Exodus 20:11; 31:17; cf. Psalm 33:9; 148:5; Mark 10:6).

https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent....y=9&article=520

That's whole idea. There's no such thing as "thinking too much", when there's nothing in the world that it is not worth thinking about. This is the part of curiosity and the other wisdom that I was talking about, and in my opinion, the bible should not be the only book of wisdom. The Bible, if anything, should be treated as a starting software, and there's a need for a constant update for knowledge.

So "who cares", you ask? I do, and many others do as well, in case you have not realized that already. It's not about knowing how much, nor to what end do we know. It is the ACT of knowing that gives meaning.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Jul 19 2015, 10:58 PM

i dunno LOL

u seem to b insinuating in all ur posts tat Kristians r less intelligent, poor thinkers, not very bright, very accepting, naive, even borderline stoopid & short of calling us morons , ....... & tat is y Kristians r Kristians in the 1st place. the smart ones usually do not fall for Kristianity. Heh!

also, wat is this "constant update of knowledge" tat u r referring to? the Canon of the Bible is finished.

or r u suggesting the Bible is outdated, b'cos u r too modern & sophisticated for the contents tat r found within its pages?

Remember the tower of Babel?


(strictly for illustrative purposes)

ur opinions won't count for much u knw, whn u finally stand b4 the Living God & i mean this in a respectful way.

i stil think u r thinking too much! perhaps, if u pick a certain direction to 'think' along, then u wouldn't b so susceptible to splitting ur focus.

What r ur doubts regarding Christianity up til this point?


Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

- John 20:29

Ah, the tower of babel.

When all human race came as one. GOD decides to destroy it. I wonder why. Any intepretation is welcome.

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Jul 19 2015, 11:57 PM

Babel, Hebrew word of origin means confused.

Men always rebelled against God and wanted to build a tower to reach the heavens.

God saw this and decided to scattered men all over the earth and gave them different languages. (Genesis 11:8)

The tower was Men's form of idolatry. It was their misinterpretation of God, ie, wealth and greed.

Another part of Satan's plan perhaps?

The tower was Men's idea of reaching heaven through their way, which is impossible.

The only way is through our Saviour Jesus.

Thus God chosed Abram, and planned to blessed him and through his lineage, "Christ" will come and end Satan dominion over mankind.

Hmm, I see. Thanks

The Tower of Babel could be an occult ritual site. Black magic and all.

Erm. Do not fall apart at the seams by imagining an insinuation that isn't there in the first place. I am merely making a point that Christians should embrace different sources of knowledge and wisdom, including the ones outside of the Bible. Note that all of these happen simply because I posted a video that only appears to be controversial to Christians, because of its title, but I was imploring all to at least attempt to understand why do people think the way they do, and the way how we think the way we do.

Again, you are imagining these "suggestions". I am merely saying that knowledge and wisdom requires an update and exposure from the very world we live in. Even if Christianity implies that this is not the world we should be aiming for, it is undeniable that we were placed upon this world in order to live our lives with it. We have souls, but were given physical bodies. If we are to deny our physical selves, what is then the meaning of our physicalities?

As stated by Sophiera's comment, the Tower of Babel could be an occult ritual site. Black magic and all. And while the story teaches about the downfall of humanity due to his or her arrogance, this does not translate into the same manner for simply wanting knowledge and wisdom. You can acquire knowledge and wisdom AND still be humble about it.


I do not think you will know exactly what will transpire when such an event happens.

Splitting the focus is exactly the main point. I have read the bible, but it does not provides all the answers. It was taught that the clay should not say to the maker, "what makest thou?". it certainly did not prevent the clay from trying to ask, "what makes me, and everything else the way it is?"

Nobody is falling apart at the seams. Heh!

"Kristians should embrace different sources of knowledge and wisdom, including the ones outside of the Bible."

And to what end, may i ask?

I think UW already answered that question when he said, "But whatever the case, doesn't mean Christians

need to ignore the inventions of Science, Medicine, all that we see as God's Grace for Human advancement

in life." refer to post #400

Personally, i do cover materials that have got nothing to do with Christianity. I enjoy them very much too.

BUT, if something is contrary to what the Bible says, the red flags go up.

It's a matter of perspective, my fren. For the Kristian already possesses the Truth that is found in Christ.

Why would we want to back-track & get ourselves confused all over again? Just a point to ponder.



The Bible has much to say about sin, the effects of living in a fallen world & what is beyond this present life.

I thought u covered the Bible already? Maybe the answers are not what you seek, hmmmm.......



Yup, u already know the answer: "downfall of humanity due to his or her arrogance"

Oh! & by all means, pursue all the knowledge & wisdom to your heart's content. Nobody is stopping you. Just don't go accusing Kristians

of being closed-minded like all your posts suggest. What is it that you are hoping for the Kristian to discover anyway?



On the contrary, i KNOW EXACTLY WHAT will transpire, for the Bible says,

A person may think their own ways are right, but the Lord weighs the heart. - Proverbs 21:2

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. - John 3:18


Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. - Matthew 25:41

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” - Revelation 21:8

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.... - Revelation 20:11 - 12





Again, it's a matter of perspective. I have already found my peace . The answers found in the Bible are pretty clear cut.

Although, it doesn't prevent the clay Deadlocks from asking, "what makes me, and everything else the way it is?",

yet STILL it doesn't change the fact that THE MAKER is THE MAKER & the CLAY remains as CLAY, does it?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

- 1 Corinthians 13:12

Bro.

The Christian Life is a Huge Journey by itself. It's a whole lot of discovery. I'm not saying to stop pursuing knowledge.
I'm saying the seeking of Life Certainty stops at God. Only found in Him. The things of Man cannot provide you what God can.

And God says to Seek Him while He may be found, which is now the age of Grace.

Because there will come a time where God will shut Heaven and Earth and says enough is enough. Where New Heaven and Earth will emerge.
You can see the birthpangs of this planet. It's evident. This world will end one day. Doesn't matter when. Your life is limited. So the door will be shut one day.

To reject that is telling God, I got this on my own. And thus God being God will oblige by your decision.


Read this Bro. I don't know if it speaks to you.

Isaiah 55

Invitation to the Thirsty

1 “Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
and you who have no money,
come, buy and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without cost.

2 Why spend money on what is not bread,
and your labor on what does not satisfy?
Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good,
and you will delight in the richest of fare.

3 Give ear and come to me;
listen, that you may live.
I will make an everlasting covenant with you,
my faithful love promised to David.

4 See, I have made him a witness to the peoples,
a ruler and commander of the peoples.

5 Surely you will summon nations you know not,
and nations you do not know will come running to you,
because of the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor.”

6 Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.

7 Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”




Verse 1, It's talking about your thirst and hunger for fulfillment.
Verse 2, talks about the vanity of the pursuit of Man in life in the things of Man.
Verse 3, talks about the New Testament Covenant of Christ for your life.
Verse 4-5, talks about Christ his Son as the one who will inevitably rule as the Right Ruler of all Nation in the end.
verse 6, talks about NOW is your time of opportunity. It will not always be there.
Verse 7, talks about let those who are evil continue to be evil, as their ultimate end will come on Judgement Day.
Verse 8, talks about why your methodology of trying to explain or seek God will never work.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 22 2015, 09:00 AM

Well, that's just it, we all have been seeking the meaning of life. I think deep inside, we all wonder is there really God? How to know which is right, which is the truth.
I find that only in Christianity, the figurehead made that claim and also paved the way for us, help us by holding us by the hand, leading us in the way, one that is easy to understand and achieve.


Other religion: All on your own. They provide the method, now you try to make it and achieve it, on your own.



I find that the wisdom or philosophies of the meaning of Life in other religion has this problems.
Their end goal of enlightenment, Salvation, nirvana, whatever the term, ALL depends on self.
How strong you are, How much Good deeds you have done, whether you have done enough to qualify. Something along this line.


I'll come straight to the point to say I don't think it's workable because as long as we are clothed in this earthly body, we are flawed in many ways. As long as we are flawed, there's no way you'll know, you'll make it or achieve it.

I would venture to say this God of the Christianity understand us so much more and makes more sense compared to the rest. And to answer your last point I think I have the right to say that God is right for saying that because after knowing Him for so long. All the things that He ever does, is always for my good and never evil. Who am I to question his wisdom after been proven that I'm wrong time and time again.

Romans 9:20
But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"

When you don't know God, of course you'll think as how you did because there is no trust, between you and Father God.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 22 2015, 08:55 AM

I don't know what to believe anymore...

UW I want to ask something about your signature.

'Atheist vehemently deny the existence of God and yet readily open to accept the idea of an alternate reality parallel universe. Topkek Pot calling Kettle black.'

Why is it topkek pot. Is it because it's impossible or...?