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 Public Mutual Funds, version 0.0

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TSj.passing.by
post Jun 12 2016, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Jun 12 2016, 08:03 PM)
Aren't Public Mutual holders allowed to do "free switching" or pay a nominal amount to switch? I am curious how many % of unit holders actually actively switch in and out of funds? I think all these are hidden costs ultimately borne by those passive investors doing long term investing because there are transaction costs involved everytime someone switch from equity funds to bond funds for example. It is definitely not free. These transaction costs ultimately reduces a funds NAV.
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You get some free switches if you have gold status (meaning total investment over RM120k) or gold elite (over RM500k). Otherwise each switching fee is RM25.

Yes, all investors will have to bear the operation costs due to the action of some investors. The actual costs incurred by the company will depend on the total switches on that day - some swithching in and out would contra each other; if the total sum is not too significant, the fund manager might not have to do anything as usually about 10% of the fund is in cash and money-market securities to cater to these transactions.

There is also the lock-in period of 90 days to deter investors from doing 'timing' and switching too frequently; there is a penalty of 0.75% of the total switched amount from exiting equity funds, and 0.25% from bond funds.

The size of the fund and the number of units sold and bought is in the year-end financial report. Size of the fund do matter whether any transactions by any individual investors would affect the fund.


aspartame
post Jun 12 2016, 08:31 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Jun 12 2016, 08:25 PM)
You get some free switches if you have gold status (meaning total investment over RM120k) or gold elite (over RM500k). Otherwise each switching fee is RM25.

Yes, all investors will have to bear the operation costs due to the action of some investors. The actual costs incurred by the company will depend on the total switches on that day - some swithching in and out would contra each other; if the total sum is not too significant, the fund manager might not have to do anything as usually about 10% of the fund is in cash and money-market securities to cater to these transactions.

There is also the lock-in period of 90 days to deter investors from doing 'timing' and switching too frequently; there is a penalty of 0.75% of the total switched amount from exiting equity funds, and 0.25% from bond funds.

The size of the fund and the number of units sold and bought is in the year-end financial report. Size of the fund do matter whether any transactions by any individual investors would affect the fund.
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The 90 days - do you mean can only do 1 switching every 90 days? And, the 0.75% is a penalty only if you switch from equity to non-equity? What about switching between equity funds? Any penalty?
kradun
post Jun 12 2016, 09:01 PM

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Although PM did charge a high entry cost compared to FSM but it will worth it as long the investor manage to get their expected return. At least UTC can fine tune the investor into a rational person when they turn wild. smile.gif

For quite sometime i meet one of my friend that swear will never let the UTC earn the commission. He rather jump to share market himself so that he can fully earn the profit by himself, but he did that purely relying on luck and very unfortunate luck is not with him, so he end up lost his money but whether he got bought the lesson or is still TBC. Slow and steady stay on the course is better than too fast too furious.

I do agree if investors are willing to spend their time to manage their money then that could save their investment cost and directly will shorten the required tenure to achieve their financial objective.

This post has been edited by kradun: Jun 12 2016, 10:26 PM
shredder
post Jun 12 2016, 09:55 PM

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Hello every1, i wanna ask, is there any apps can be downloaded to phone to track the progress of your investment?
T231H
post Jun 12 2016, 10:06 PM

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QUOTE(kradun @ Jun 12 2016, 09:01 PM)
Although PM did charge a high entry cost compared to FSM but it will worth it as long the investor manage to get their expected return. At least they can fine tune the investor into a rational person when they turn wild. smile.gif
.......
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if other things being equal....the one with the higher sales charge will need a longer times to catch up with the one of lower sales charges....
T231H
post Jun 12 2016, 10:08 PM

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QUOTE(shredder @ Jun 12 2016, 09:55 PM)
Hello every1, i wanna ask, is there any apps can be downloaded to phone to track the progress of your investment?
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Try fsm....i think they hv that for their account holders
TSj.passing.by
post Jun 12 2016, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Jun 12 2016, 08:31 PM)
The 90 days - do you mean can only do 1 switching every 90 days? And, the 0.75% is a penalty only if you switch from equity to non-equity? What about switching between equity funds? Any penalty?
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Sorry, shouldn't have said 'lock-in period'...

You can switched as often as you like. Just that the 90 days determines whether you pay a flat RM25, or the extra cost of 0.75% / 0.25% fee.

The 90 days is counted from the day you purchased or switched into the fund.

The fee is counted on the type of fund you switched out from. It does not matter what fund you switched into.

Another rule is that when switching out within the 90 days period, it is subjected to a minimal charge of RM50.

For example:

If you switched RM10,000 out of a bond fund within the 90 days period; RM10,000 x 0.25% = RM25. It will cost you RM50 due to the minimal charge.

If you switched RM10,000 out of an equity fund within 90 days; RM10,000 x 0.75% = RM75. Switching cost is RM75.

If it is over 90 days, RM25.

(Switching out of money-market fund, regardless of 90 days or not, is a flat RM25.)

(The full switching details are found inside the fund prospectus.)

(Gold members - 18 free switches in each calendar year. Gold elite - 30 free switches. But you still need to pay if the cost is more than RM25 in each switch transaction. As in the above example of RM75, it will cost you: RM75 - RM25 = RM50.)

The switching cost will be deducted from the fund... so you do not really pay it out of your wallet or bank account.

EDIT: Important rule: After 90 days, all switches INTO money-market fund is FREE.



This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jun 13 2016, 01:25 PM
dasecret
post Jun 13 2016, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Jun 12 2016, 07:50 PM)

Sometimes to remind self to be grounded to earth, and not flying high into dreamland and chasing high returns, I looked into this site showing the top funds, which shows the worse funds too.

https://www.eunittrust.com.my/fundInfo/5top_worst_funds.asp

For example,
Top 5 Funds 1 Year
Fund Name  %
RHB Gold And General Fund  38.80
AmPrecious Metals  27.68
AmPan European Property Equities  21.65
RHB Energy Fund  19.65
AmGlobal Property Equities  18.84

Worst 5 Funds 1 Year
Fund Name  %
Affin Hwang China Growth Fund  -33.81
AmConstant Multi Maturity  -24.46
Manulife China Equity Fund  -22.40
RHB Big Cap China Enterprise Fund  -17.70
BIMB Dana Al-Falah  -17.61

edit: correction - that should be "5 top funds from 3 different companies", not 4. And all except the balanced fund seemed to be in the same equity sector.
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FSM shows the worst performing funds too
https://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/fundi...orst_Funds.svdo

The truth is firstly there are not many foreign funds that has 10 years results so it did not come as a surprise that most of the top performing funds are coming from Malaysia equities, particularly the small cap segment that did very well in the past many years

I did not show the comparison between funds within different segments although I did compare them while looking for better funds to go with; almost no PM funds come up to be more attractive than other fund houses for 5 years and shorter term. The question is, what are the fund managers in PM doing about this?

This link does a limited comparison with funds not carried by FSM but a better comparison would be on Morningstar and Lipper
https://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/fundi...torareacode=FEY

Sorry, I'm not trying to shoot the messenger but rather I hope PM agents or corporate picks this up and really put pressure on the fund managers so that they don't lose their top of the asset management position; and to me that position is more than AUM and sales force

TSj.passing.by
post Jun 13 2016, 02:48 PM

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I doubt the fund managers would be worried, since the investment policies is set by a board - and I don't think the policy is to aim to be the top fund in their respective sector as their investment policy is more towards the conservative side.

(If the fund happened the top fund in its sector, it could be because there are no other funds in that sector or because the other funds are new entrants. cool2.gif )

Secondly, I think investors who goes with PM are also mostly those who are in for the long haul - retirement and setting up trust funds, where their fund portfolio will be restructured to more income funds, and the income distribution will not be reinvested.

If the 5.5% service charge is taken into account, it is not advisable to look into PM when the investment objective is 5 years or less, regardless of how its short term returns was in comparisons to other funds. (And in the shorter term objective where I can determine the exact amount I wished to have, it is better to make the exit when the amount is reached and not preset the exit to the initial investment tenure.)

To avoid any frustration or dissatisfaction on the UT investment, it would be proper to review the objective of the investment. Do a top-down approach if it was not done before; starting with the objective, then the company, then the sector, and lastly the fund.

Yes, the fund and its returns come last. It could be topsy turvy if the objective is long term and the UT investment is based solely on its returns.

Always remember the investment objective. It is pointless and even silly to start comparing funds' returns without any reference to the initial objective.

Cheers.

BTW I'm not a Unit Trust Consultant (UTC). Yes, I sat and passed the UTC exam - to know what's going on first hand. The service charges, all fully paid to my UTCs - which I have several, and I'd never tried to keep in touch with them. So readers, please don't wrongly preconceived that I have 'inside info' on PM... laugh.gif


guanteik
post Jun 14 2016, 05:28 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Jun 13 2016, 02:48 PM)
If the 5.5% service charge is taken into account, it is not advisable to look into PM when the investment objective is 5 years or less, regardless of how its short term returns was in comparisons to other funds. (And in the shorter term objective where I can determine the exact amount I wished to have, it is better to make the exit when the amount is reached and not preset the exit to the initial investment tenure.)
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In reply to this comment, I have to agree with you 5.5% is too high to invest in regardless >5 years or <5 years. If we are looking at the long term horizon in respect to investing in PM's equity, we are hoping (or praying) that the distribution will cover these service charges without us feeling the pinch.

I would never want to invest in PM's equity as long as the charges remains. Unless, they charge 1-2% at most for the equities.
MUM
post Jun 14 2016, 06:56 PM

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QUOTE(guanteik @ Jun 14 2016, 05:28 PM)
In reply to this comment, I have to agree with you 5.5% is too high to invest in regardless >5 years or <5 years. If we are looking at the long term horizon in respect to investing in PM's equity, we are hoping (or praying) that the distribution will cover these service charges without us feeling the pinch.

I would never want to invest in PM's equity as long as the charges remains. Unless, they charge 1-2% at most for the equities.
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lukenn
post Jun 14 2016, 07:07 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Jun 14 2016, 06:56 PM)
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apathen
post Jun 15 2016, 02:40 AM

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QUOTE(guanteik @ Jun 14 2016, 05:28 PM)
In reply to this comment, I have to agree with you 5.5% is too high to invest in regardless >5 years or <5 years. If we are looking at the long term horizon in respect to investing in PM's equity, we are hoping (or praying) that the distribution will cover these service charges without us feeling the pinch.

I would never want to invest in PM's equity as long as the charges remains. Unless, they charge 1-2% at most for the equities.
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I feel Since they charge such a high service charge, they should be man enough not to charge admin fee if the fund got negative return for the year.
That will at least refrain them from nonstop launching new fund one after another rather than concentrate on existing fund performance.
TSj.passing.by
post Jun 17 2016, 02:46 PM

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Here's something for the weekend... Lack of patience helps to create ‘the investor gap’.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/lack-of-p...6-07?link=MW_RM

As mentioned in a post in previous page, there's a difference between the fund's returns and the investor's returns, and this difference is apparently termed "the investor gap".

"Not content to sit quietly and quit tinkering with their portfolios, many investors are more active than prudence would dictate. Combine a limited understanding of financial concepts and the lack of a written financial plan to help prevent imprudent, emotional investment decisions and, voila, the investor gap. Strategies that have worked over the long haul often appear to be foolish in the short term, almost guaranteeing that portfolio tinkerers won't leave well enough alone."


In other words, the finicky investor pulled out in an adverse market because he got scared; going contrary to the well-worn stock market phrase of "buying low, selling high". ("Investors become rattled by ordinary market volatility.")

In unit trusts, it is "buy-and-hold", but this is only half the story. If the finicky investor began with a DCA method, he stopped buying because he lost faith in the fund, this means he had abandon the initial DCA method.

Once any strategy is abandon without any alternative, there is no strategy to speak off... that means he was doing his UT investments blindly and just following his own whims and fancies. And the investor gap widens. If he's lucky, the gap narrows positive... and if unlucky, the gap widens negatively. But usually we're seeing a negative gap... since he already 'buy high, sell low'.

And about switching funds (when one thinks it is timely and appropriate to do so)... "Despite all the warnings that past performance is no guarantee of future returns, investors still chase performance. They equate good performance with manager skill, not realizing that the manager might just have been lucky. Sadly, much of this performance chasing is done following the advice and guidance of financial professionals."

"The investor gap is created by poor investor behavior in response to unpredictable, periodic, temporary market declines. It will exist as long as investors try to time the market in order to gain the upside and avoid the downside. If you're endeavoring to do this, you're delusional and any financial forecaster (or advisor) who encourages you to do so is a devil. The large exodus of money from stock mutual funds in response to the market decline in January and February will keep the investor gap alive and well, ensuring that in 2016 investors will continue to underperform the very funds that they own."

Cheers.

nexona88
post Jun 30 2016, 04:52 PM

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From: REality
Public Mutual declares RM141m distributions for 14 funds

PB Growth Fund - 2.50 sen per unit;

PB Asia Equity Fund - 1.50 sen,

PB Euro Pacific Equity Fund - 0.75 sen

PB China Asean Equity Fund - 1.50 sen

PB Singapore Advantage-30 Equity Fund - 0.50 sen;

PB Islamic Asia Equity Fund - 1 sen;

PB Balanced Fund - 3 sen;

PB Fixed Income Fund - 3.50 sen

PB Infrastructure Bond Fund - 4 sen

PB Islamic Bond Fund - 6 sen per unit;

PB Cash Management Fund - 4.25 sen;

PB Islamic Cash Management Fund - 4 sen;

Public Islamic Savings Fund - 0.25 sen

Public Islamic Money Market Fund - 3.50 sen
tboontan
post Jul 9 2016, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Jun 17 2016, 02:46 PM)

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at first glance of a few treads , i thought that you are an utc ,

but after more reading , only realized you are not.

fantastic, your level is above many many utcs, especially those who are not full time .

cheers

This post has been edited by tboontan: Jul 10 2016, 12:00 AM
dasecret
post Jul 10 2016, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(tboontan @ Jul 9 2016, 11:59 PM)
at first glance of a few treads , i thought that you are an utc ,

but after more reading , only realized you are not.

fantastic, your level is above many many utcs, especially those who are not full time .

cheers
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Hop over to fundsupermart thread, there r more investors who know as much if not more than the average UTCs. N time to see how the competitors r doing too
TSj.passing.by
post Jul 10 2016, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(tboontan @ Jul 9 2016, 11:59 PM)
at first glance of a few treads , i thought that you are an utc ,

but after more reading , only realized you are not.

fantastic, your level is above many many utcs, especially those who are not full time .

cheers
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Thank you for the support and kind comment. I believed I knew a bit more than any fresh UTC is that I am an investor going in for the long haul. The simple knowledge and first hand experiences that I have learned about UT funds in general (and Public Mutual funds in particular) were gathered after many readings and time spent on the internet, and from the same trial-and-error process that many newbie investors would also go through.

Among the more important things I learned is that posters writing in forums and writers writing in financial articles were writing with a specific audience in their minds, and it would helps if we know who are the intended readers that they are speaking to, and whether we are the intended readers.

Because different readers and UT investors have different financial backgrounds; which I broadly categorised into 3 stages or groupings - The young, the intermediate and the retired. All 3 groups would behaved differently; and the groupings were written in the early pages of this thread.

Cheers. Keep reading... and investing. smile.gif

TSj.passing.by
post Jul 10 2016, 02:40 PM

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Okay, this is another Paul Merriman's article: 10 Decisions Guaranteed to Change Your Financial Future.

(I hope Mr Merriman is not going to go after me for sharing his articles here without asking his permission. smile.gif )

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-decisi...7-06?link=MW_RM

Investment success isn't mysterious, and it's largely under your control, as long as you make good decisions and follow through on them.

Here's a list of what I think are the 10 most important investment decisions you will make over your lifetime.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


These 10 questions will give you lots to think about. Fortunately, you don't have to tackle them all right away. But if you take the time to study all these topics and then put into practice what you learn, it will be time very well spent. I predict that the ultimate payoff per hour will be far higher than any salary you're likely to earn.

If that's the result you want, then roll up your sleeves and go for it!


Comments:
Some of the fund types that he mentioned may not be available here locally, and I have to admit that some of funds he mentioned I have no idea at all and could not see the difference between focused funds and actively managed funds. laugh.gif

I shared his opinion that UT funds are for the long term and the process of getting into it is equally long and lengthy. Best to begin as early as possible.

Cheers.

PS. Please read the original article, as it has links to other articles.

myen1993
post Jul 13 2016, 02:21 PM

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Hi.. is there anyone have experience know that how long Public mutual fund withdrawal process if submit the repurchase/withdrawal request form at any branches? smile.gif



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