I think this is a step backwards, the internet should be easy to access and use not have these confusing plans (they will be for most). TMnet should continue to provide a reasonably priced service as they already do, but they need to step up to the plate with higher quality of service OR open the market to other "last mile" providers. At the very least TM should be looking at wholesaling their service to third party ISPs to provide (Maybe then the quality will rise).

To say that this prioritizing system that TMnet has implemented is smart, is nothing short of the total idiocy of the implementation itself. This "controlling" as TMnet would prefer it referred to as, is not functioning correctly and is not being fixed. Instead of just deprioritizing P2P traffic, ALL my traffic is slow or failed and there are many more suffering the same as I am.

To say that P2P is for piracy is like saying air travel is for drug smugglers, it makes no sense at all, P2P has been adopted by many companies as the preferred way to deliver large files as it takes the load off the server a distributes it among other downloaders. If P2P is made the bad guy of the internet then progress is shot in the foot and what's next? Ohhhh we better limit how much people can transfer all together whether its P2P or other because they must be pirating!

What happens once IPTV starts in Malaysia? that will use huge amounts of daily data won't it? And those connections are going to be 8Mb/sec connections. What about other future technologies and applications? The more bandwidth that is available the more we will all demand feature rich, high bandwidth applications to enrich our online experience.

The reality is that TMnet needs to upgrade the whole network (what happened to DSL2?) and the International bandwidth to a point that is at least a year or two ahead of the current required bandwidth, you know maybe draw up a graph or two. Just imagine what the network would be like if the government was actually reaching its desired broadband Internet penetration! They had hoped to be at 30% by the end of this year I think.

Forget about all your wonderful little limiting plans, as long as TMnet has the monopoly on the last mile, they should not be allowed to put any limitations on anything. So typical that a big company would want to have its cake and eat it to.

If TM did what needs to done instead of sitting around gloating about this years record profits, maybe, just maybe Malaysia would have the WORLD CLASS Internet provider the government would like to think it has. Scream it from the hill tops, write to the media, get this situation fixed for the betterment of the country. Malaysian Internet is a joke by international standards, how long can they hide behind the "We are only just starting as a broadband provider." come on seriously, its a huge company and it has the resources to make it all happen, but its not, WHY?

Personally I think Abdullah is as corrupt as most of the other politicians in this country, not saying the Dr M was any less corrupt but at least he got things done, and Abdullah just does what you would like us all to do, kick back and wait for it all to happen. (way off topic anyway)


"Whoa.. you're a server admin and don't even know how a Network works? You think you have a direct connection via Streamyx to your servers in Shah Alam?? Heck no. Its your computer -> your modem -> your DSLAM -> hop 1 -> Kelana / Cyber -> hop 2 -> hop 3 -> some router -> some other ISP -> some other ISP's mama's router -> some server -> some bandwidth provider -> your server provider -> your server.

ANYTHING CAN GO F*KING WRONG in between ok? And its totally wrong to diss TM becuz of that."

Yes I do know how a network works, I was building networks back when you were a dirty thought in your fathers head.

And yes it has everything to do with TM because in the situation I mentioned I'm not even accessing a network outside the TMnet network.

I was under the same impression about my physical connection some weeks ago and demanded that TM send a tech out to test it, they did that, he re terminated all my wires just to be sure and plugged in his test equipment and everything checked out 100%. So its not that. Its also not my PC, I have 3 different ones here XP, Server2003, and a linux box and all do exactly the same thing and no its not my router, I have tested without the router on all my systems and again the same thing.

The problem is with TMnet, I know this for sure, what it is in TM that is screwed up I have no idea. Thats their job to find and fix, it is my job to demand that it be fixed.

Proving you wrong is now my full-time job at lowyat.net forums! But I'm loving every moment of it! So, here we go!!!!!



The plans look / seem confusing to you? Even a 12 year old know what the numbers mean. Bad argument! You have a budget of RM 80k for a car and you want a Ferrari? Opening up to "last mile" is SUCH A GOOD IDEA. No, I'm not being sarcastic. It would be a win-win for TM.... Jaring, Time and Maxis can use TM's copper... at the same time, TM can charge them RM 50 /month premium, for example for the use. Who is to say TM cannot do that??? OF cuz they can! They open certain areas to Jaring, and see how Jaring DSL is doing?? Quite a failure, right?

TM can't just open "last mile" to any Ali, Abu and Ahmad! If not, these small companies will make losses for TM and piss off their customers. I doubt any of these other broadband providers have the capacity that comes close to one tenth of what TM has. TM is the market leader. Just ask users of PenangFon, LightSpeed and all other "fiber wannabe" companies. They're hurting because of P2P, and you know it!

I'm voting for Digi to come into this BB game. Alas, the government is limiting foreign investment in local monopolised industries. What to do?



Yours is an isolated case. Get a technician to change your telephone cable to the pole and to wire it correctly. If all else fail, dump TM. You have a freedom to choose. Use Maxis 3G or Digi EDGE unlimited. If its better than TM, then you stick with it lah!

F*ck. You are seriously disillusioned dude. What have you been smoking? P2P is known for piracy. 99.99% of P2P traffic are for pirating stuff. I know of Revision 3, and Hak5.org, or TheScene and other genuine IPTV firms who distribute via P2P (Torrent specifically). Even game developers use it to distribute their games and update patches. Even with that factored in, 99.99% of P2P traffic is illegal! Where have you been the past 3 years? This argument is the worse defence in the book! Its like... the "temporary insanity" argument for murder... yes, you might be successful, but rehab is worse than going to prison for 50 years. Its total idiocy!



ADSL 2+ is in trial now as we speak. Ridzual Condo and few others have it. Check out jeffooi.com .. IPTV is 100% local traffic - we have hundreds of gigabit of local connectivity, don't worry.... but your supply of pr0n (and other torrent) is from overseas, thus it goes through our 18 gbit international link bottleneck. Your DSLAM is more than capable of supporting IPTV. TM just upgraded the equipment down my street to support ADSL 2+ and so far, so good.

Do you work for a marketing firm? Damn, you have bloody fancy marketing terminologies! Other people would say, "he more bandwidth that is available the more we can download more warez and pr0n". F*ck. You're different!



Re-read my previous post. When they thought up of the 1mbit / rm 88 / unlimited plan, they FORGOT to factor in P2P being so rampant. Normal ISPs 1:10 bandwidth contention ratio. TM Nut is now doing 1:100 , so obviously there has to be slowdowns. Easy to say right, just add bandwidth? You think your grandfather owns all the Tier 1 ISPs ah, so freely give you additional bandwidth. Actually, bwidth is cheap, its just transporting all that capacity to Malaysia. You'll be spending hundreds of millions of Ringgit to lay undersea submarine cables to Japan / Korea!




What? Your paragraph doesn't make any sense.

TM's profit hasn't been all rosy. The bulk comes from their fixed line service. It cost them about RM 1 to maintain our phone lines but our "Sewa Bulanan" is about RM 25. TM's internet business is making a loss / just breaking even. Broadband is heavily subsidised in Malaysia - as well as other parts of the world. Cept in Malaysia, the government doesn't see a need to give us 10 mbit lines yet.

I lived in one of our ASEAN neighbouring countries (obviously not Singapore). Their broadband speeds NOW is: 512 kbit - "unlimited", but the speeds are roughly 64kb/s real life - RM 250/mth. You think I'm crapping? PM me and I'll tell you which provider it is. Discount Singapore, and Malaysia's broadband situation is the 2nd BEST amongst ASEAN countries. Sleep on it.

I just could not imagine how developed of Malaysia's bistari school to train out such clever student --- 20 year old kid studying at Taylors Business School, Subang Jaya ??

Revenue Composition for the financial year ended 31 December 2005

RM million % Contribution

Fixed Line Business 3,144.0 22.6

Fixed Line Residential 2,414.2 17.3

Leased & Data Services 908.6 6.5

Mobile 5,983.9 42.9

Internet & Multimedia 702.7 5.1

Other telecommunication 575.9 4.1

Non-telecommunication 213.1 1.5

TOTAL REVENUE 13,942.4 100.0


Internet and Multimedia
Internet and multimedia business registered a strong year-on-year growth of 36.4%. Its contribution to the Group revenue grew to RM702.7 million from RM515.4 million recorded in 2004. TM Net Sdn Bhd's broadband customers expanded by 92% to 495,000 from 258,000 in 2004. Whilst its dial-up customers increased to 2.1 million from 1.9 million last year.

TM Net maintains its leadership position with 97% market share in broadband market and 58% in narrowband market by offering competitively priced products and services.



PS.

For all your smarts you don't read and understand very well, go back and re-read what I said before. Think about it a little then reply. Your off the cuff reply does not do justice to you and your previous replies.

This post has been edited by morphware: Oct 28 2006, 10:20 PM

hi, that is for Australia.

Yeah thats another thing, you can't say that it costs $x in whatever country, we are in Malaysia, TMnet is for Malaysians, and we all spend Ringit not Dollars here.

With all the travel I have done around the world one thing I have noticed is that most things in most countries cost about the same in that countries money. eeerrggghhh there has to be a better way to explain that.....

But anyway, whatever it costs broadband needs to be affordable for all the public in Malaysia or the government will fail in its desire to attain whatever levels of broadband penetration.

And excit3, remember sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

It's because he loves Australia. Hopefully he will leave us to deal with TM Net and go and stay there. Last I remembered, USA whopped Australia's A$$ in the USA - Australia war. (A little GTA3 humor. What? u don't know? Listen to the radio in GTA3)

thread starter only purposely make us to believe that we (customers) are paying less than actual price.
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what ?!
20 year old kid studying at Taylors Business School, Subang Jaya ??

This post has been edited by work_tgr: Oct 28 2006, 10:20 PM

It's like this my sis in USA woks for about US$1000-2000 per month and she pays US$10 for cinema while most around here earn that in Ringgit same numbers range and also pay 10 for cinema but in ringgit.

how come we can compare Malaysia with Australia ??
how about compare Malaysia with Indonesia ??
100 rupiah enough to buy RM0.20 periksa ayam keropok ??

I'm paying phone rent and streamyx as well. What! RM100 not enough for my 512kbps connection?

TC_Boy at least catch some ball! morphware is still in his reality distorted dreamland!

Thing is, bandwidth is a commodity, much like oil. If Malaysia's petrol is not subsidised, we'll be paying RM 3 a litre for RON 92. That's the fair market value for it. Doesn't mean Americans should pay US$3 / litre (its about US$2.50 / gallon now) Be reasonable.

It is never my intention to be sarcastic. You, morphware, pushed me, I had to retaliate in order not to appear weak. Re-read the posts! Not having a defense makes you look like a sissy! (Promise, mods: this is my last beef / diss)

Tgr, I'm not manipulating your minds. I'm just stating the facts. Some times you have to snap out of your dream and come back to the real world.

peace, ya'll.

morphware, what connection problem?



gnite,
excit3

Yeah thats it thanks.

I think you are the one live in "Australia Dreamland" all the time.
Hei, man ! Wake up! This is Malaysia !!

Peace, 20 year-old boy

This post has been edited by work_tgr: Oct 28 2006, 10:32 PM

I read your plan, and frankly I would be willing to give it a try if implemented by TM Net, probably at the RM128.00 tier, but holy shit you need to stop with the personal insults and condescending manner. It doesn't advance your argument at all, and only makes you sound kinda crazed.

We get it, you're the man with the plan, one who's more neutral than Switzerland, forever willing to turn the other cheek and work arm in arm with those who've wronged you, lover of women and eater of bears, the sole voice of reason in this mad, mad world. Did I miss anything? Just... chill man.

Btw, I think I've met you in person. Y/N is your dad's computer shop in Sunway Pyramid?

Statistics as at 1:00 a.m.



Finally someone figures out what I'm trying to say! My gosh! There is a GOD!!!!

My personal insults were never meant to be. Like I said, they were really pushing me. Re-read my first few posts and you'll notice that the tone of the posts are very very gentle. I made sure I never offended anyone's opinion. But as you go to page 2, criticism started flying from up down left and centre. People started posting without thinking.

They never understood basic concepts about running an ISP. Who would blame them. But shouldn't you keep quiet if you don't have the facts?

I'm very passionate about what I do. If you lack passion, you might as well stay at home and just sleep. Yes, I might be occationally gung-ho, but that doesn't mean my views should be taken lightly as if it comes from an immature kiddy (although I sometimes am).

No, I haven't met you. But I like to meet intelligent people. Maybe we can have coffee.

On a personal note, I'd go for the RM 128 plan too. Its more than what I'm paying today, but at least I get guaranteed bandwidth.

Here, evidence at 2:15am that TM Customer Support is telling us the truth! We are not capped on TM Net's server / international gateway!!! They de-prioritised BT traffic, putting it extremely low.

www.speedtest.net all gave me a nice 160KB/s on major test sites. So there is no problem with congestion.. just that BT is low low low on the priority list... maybe they allocate 40% of bandwidth for BT now? So 0.4 * 20gbit (prudent estimate) = 5gbit international bandwidth for whole of Malaysia to enjoy.

At odd hours like NOW, we have maybe 70% allocated to BT, so the speeds improve slightly.

That is a misunderstanding. I never said I wanted a full refund. I enjoyed my Enzo years and paid the full RM88 with no complaints except for the occasional outages. I now want a partial refund on my monthly bill because I am not getting the full 1Mbps speed that I was promised. Hence the Wira - Enzo substitute analogy.
I apologise for the misunderstanding.

I do agree with your capping idea, and I believe myself to be one of the few minority here who have been advocating it in the last few months before you even registered here.

Nice plan. Although I'd be more rest assured if someone else came up with those numbers. Not because you're young. But because I'd rather my numbers were sourced from experts who have access to real information and know what to do with that information. The same way you'd see a doctor for physical ailments, not an accountant. You do after all admit that you major in finance. And neither can you claim to have seen real inside data about TM Net's network. So at best, these numbers are mere estimation.

But the very foundations of the idea, capping bandwidth while allowing full 4Mbps bandwidth, is to me, a very good idea that deserves some consideration amongst the big shots at TM Net.

Although I doubt they'd even bother with such a package, since the current business model they use means that they can charge us full price without giving us full bandwidth. They'd make an even bigger profit that way. If I were a greedy b*****d with no morals and ethics, that's exactly what I'd do. I guess I'm just pessimistic when dealing with TM Net.

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As for the current debate, I think the biggest point of contention is that some prefer the unlimited download at fixed speed, while the others prefer capped download at fixed speed.

I am obviously on the capped download side. I hope that people will not condemn the capped download idea simply because they do not like the way that Excit3 presented his ideas or simply because he's only 20 yrs old. Rather, I hope that they will give the idea some thought and decide rationally without emotions getting in the way.

The basic principle is this - Scarcity of resources. Bandwidth, to me, is a form of commodity, hence a resource. And since resources are scarce, naturally it can never be offered unlimited. That would result in a spiral of demand that will eventually be impossible to be met. Hence the idea of providing unlimited downloads is a rather false idea. There can never be unlimited downloads because bandwidth is always limited.

i) Capped downloads:-
Giving a capped download bandwidth per day forces demand for download bandwidth to be staggered on a day by day basis across the whole month. It acknowledges the idea that bandwidth is limited and charges users by how much bandwidth they want to spend. As such, this will help mitigate outages from spikes in congestion and also help ensure that heavier users pay more for the commodity. Quality of Service must be ensured in such a model, since we have already given up on unlimited downloads in exchange for better QoS.

Such a model is also extremely scalable when compared against increasing download speeds. QoS benefits greatly as a result.

ii) Unlimited downloads:-
Opting for an unlimited download model will expose the network to outages due to spikes in congestion resulting in lower QoS. And because downloads are unlimited, some people will constantly maximise their downloads on a day by day basis in the network throughout the month, resulting in constant congestion. Do keep in mind that such an act is not legally wrong. It is the fault of the business model for allowing such an act. Anyway, all these factors will result in lower QoS. This model makes it too easy and too cheap for people to be able to hog all the bandwidth for themselves. You think that you are having unlimited downloads. But you are actually capped by the dl speed and also by the congestion that unlimited downloads create by straining the network everyday. Look at the current state of our internet access, today and you'll know what I mean.

And the worst thing is, such a model becomes increasingly unscalable when compared with increasing download speeds. Hence my earlier statement about demand spiralling to a point that it becomes unmanageable.

Summary
Try to think of bandwidth like water. A commodity. I don't think we should be paying a fixed amount of money for water consumption. Nobody does that. We all pay for how much we use. It's the same with bandwidth.

This post has been edited by +Newbie+: Oct 29 2006, 03:54 AM