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> Military Thread V15, Gong Xi Fa Cai; Huat ah

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thpace
post Feb 19 2015, 07:15 PM

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QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ Feb 19 2015, 07:12 PM)
Iraq's T-72 was good enough to counter Chieftain, AMX-30, Pattons and Centurions of the neighboring countries....They aren't supposed to encounter next generation MBTs like Abrams and Challenger.

T-72M series are export models.....the T-72B series much better protected
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The 105mm cant pent them

Jew reported it. Bounce the turret and frontal hull
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 19 2015, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(thpace @ Feb 19 2015, 07:15 PM)
The 105mm cant pent them

Jew reported it. Bounce the turret and frontal hull
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Yes...guns derived from the popular British's L7 design...like the M68 can't penetrate most T-72 variants.

Need guns derived from Rheinmetall 120mm design...like M256 gun on Abrams
thpace
post Feb 19 2015, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ Feb 19 2015, 07:22 PM)
Yes...guns derived from the popular British's L7 design...like the M68 can't penetrate most T-72 variants.

Need guns derived from Rheinmetall 120mm design...like M256 gun on Abrams
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Sadly the 150mm gun was cancelled

If not we will be seeing 4th gen with 150mm gun
Frozen_Sun
post Feb 19 2015, 07:37 PM

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QUOTE(thpace @ Feb 19 2015, 07:24 PM)
Sadly  the 150mm gun was cancelled 

If not we will be seeing 4th gen with 150mm gun
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Well...150mm gun will need a longer barrel and the tank may become somewhat unwieldy. With normal length...it may become a medium-velocity gun

SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 19 2015, 07:39 PM

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QUOTE(thpace @ Feb 19 2015, 07:09 PM)
Iran reverse engineer those planes. Then attached their own armament 

Who going to protests them doing that? US? They already sanction them iranians

Russia? So far russia have been keeping their promise not to supply them advance system. If u watch north korea documentary, u will know that is north  korea selling it to them. North buy act as proxy for iran and export to them

We on other hand cant that..
Uhhh.. it not autoloader but rather the ejector that is risky. The autolaoder mechanism have been the same but now the ejector have been redesigned to be safer for the crew

T72 supplied to middle east are of inferior quality  because  of russian fear of it falling to murica hands. Reduce armor protection, inferior fire control system and some even without fire control system. Lack of era and some even have used gun barrels

But even with this there  are some cases whre abrams fail to penetrate those tanks head on. Most of Iraq t72 are destroyed by missiles rather than tank on tank battle.
Semua mordern pun boleh
Just fast it reach operation readyness once surface from the water.. some take a few minutes  until all the water  exit the engine compartment or ect
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No, iran did not reverse engineer. During the fall of Shah's, the air force mostly secular fled with the pro government. It left the rebel formed government lack of maintenance expertise for aircrafts that most of the fighters non-flyable. They hired engineers from russia personally to do the mods for them like how we get outside hp workshop to root software.

North korea cooperation with iran for nuclear program is true. But it was china who gave north korea and also pakistan the recipe to build nukes. China got it from Soviet Union.

Older m-1abram is using rifled m105 gun, the same as in m60a1/3. Hesh rounds have weaker penetrative force compared to sabot rounds from smoothbore. Nothing to be proud of if older abrams have to fire more than 1 round. Fyi, the great tank battle over iraq was between abram vs t72, t62 & t55. The Bradley's are slower than abrams that they were trailing behing while abrams spearhead enemy defenses. At least abram could destroy t72. At the other hand, t72's 125mm failed to punch through abram's armour, only capable of damaging tracks, turrets and engines at most.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 19 2015, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE(pziv2 @ Feb 19 2015, 12:46 PM)
where did you get this information from? or are you just extrapolating data from iraqi T-72s and thinking that it applies to the T-90? as for the insurgent weapons, it doesn't mean much given the fact that even the Challenger 2 was penetrated by a RPG29.
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Chechnya battle, russian mbts performed badly be it t72b or t80bv both with fully covered ERA tiles. The Chechen separatists didn't bother to waste time shooting at harderned parts instead just aim for tracks and engine bay. Just 1 direct hit to engine would punch throught ammo storage destroying the tank with its own stowed ammo.

Check war in afghanistan, the soviets lost heavily than americans. It showed american tanks superior.

The challenger 2 under worst attack being hit by multiple RPG only had the driver's feet injured by shrapnel. Compared to leopard 2a6 in afghanistan that was hit by ied had the driver killed.

This post has been edited by kungfugymnast: Feb 19 2015, 07:52 PM
pziv2
post Feb 19 2015, 07:47 PM

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QUOTE(kungfugymnast @ Feb 19 2015, 07:44 PM)
Chechnya battle, russian mbts performed badly be it t72b or t80bv both with fully covered ERA tiles. The Chechen separatists didn't bother to waste time shooting at harderned parts instead just aim for tracks and engine bay. Just 1 direct hit to engine would punch throught ammo storage destroying the tank with its own stowed ammo.
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failure in chechnya was not due to the tank design, but to the tactics employed by the russians. they sent tanks without any infantry support right into urban environments and got their arses handed back to them. any tank caught in this situation no matter the model will be utterly destroyed.

QUOTE
Check war in afghanistan, the soviets lost heavily than americans. It showed american tanks superior.


how about the war in vietnam? the americans lost over 50k dead, and was bogged down for over 10 years. does that show american armour is inferior to the soviets?

you do know that your example is really poor in making your point. afghan war featured very few armour on armour engagements (if at all), and fighting was against an american-armed guerilla-fighter foe.



This post has been edited by pziv2: Feb 19 2015, 08:00 PM
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 19 2015, 08:01 PM

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QUOTE(pziv2 @ Feb 19 2015, 07:47 PM)
failure in chechnya was not due to the tank design, but to the tactics employed by the russians. they sent tanks without any infantry support right into urban environments and got their arses handed back to them. any tank caught in this situation no matter the model will be utterly destroyed.
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American, brits, israelis had been into such ambush, the abrams, challenger 2, merkava survived with damages. Only if there's hizbollah 500lb anti-tank mine that is strong enough to blow up any tank where few merkava mk3 were destroyed with turret blown off.

Russian t72 and t80 in chechnya is similar to iraq and in comparison, russian tank survival rate is much poorer.
pziv2
post Feb 19 2015, 08:05 PM

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QUOTE(kungfugymnast @ Feb 19 2015, 08:01 PM)
American, brits, israelis had been into such ambush, the abrams, challenger 2, merkava survived with damages. Only if there's hizbollah 500lb anti-tank mine that is strong enough to blow up any tank where few merkava mk3 were destroyed with turret blown off.

Russian t72 and t80 in chechnya is similar to iraq and in comparison, russian tank survival rate is much poorer.
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you do know that several merkavas have been destroyed and their crews killed by Kornets fired from a long range, right?
kerolzarmyfanboy
post Feb 19 2015, 08:07 PM

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we got ourselves a Western's hardware die-hard-fans here laugh.gif
this is like watching arguments between Nvidia and AMD supporters laugh.gif laugh.gif
KYPMbangi
post Feb 19 2015, 08:20 PM

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QUOTE(kungfugymnast @ Feb 19 2015, 02:19 PM)
Autoloader is good if there's isolation from crew like in leclerc & merkava, tank crew don't get to touch nor see the autoloader. Russia got into serious financial crisis that they cancelled the t95 project with proper autoloader separated from crew compartment and separate ammo storage.

T72/80/90 are nothing more than 70's era tech doctrine. The design fails big time under present day. Since t95 was scrapped and russians lost the t80 factory to ukraine after soviet union dissolved, they have only t72 left and give it modificaton then renamed it t90.

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The t95 is now replaced by the armata project which is a multiple weapons platform that will features unmanned turret, turret bustle ammo compartment, improved armor, active protection system and front engine. The design emphasizes more of the crew protection priority while still maintaining the medium weight tank class for mobility like their predecessor

please dun hate russian tank, every tank is built differently for different purpose, you can love one but dun hate the other..
same goes for shitty tanks like arjun and sheridan
KYPMbangi
post Feb 19 2015, 08:39 PM

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QUOTE(kungfugymnast @ Feb 19 2015, 07:39 PM)
The Bradley's are slower than abrams that they were trailing behing while abrams spearhead enemy defenses. At least abram could destroy t72. At the other hand, t72's 125mm failed to punch through abram's armour, only capable of damaging tracks, turrets and engines at most.
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Totally wrong statement here.. the bradley can keep up with the abrams tank formation
In fact bradley served as forward scout for the tanks in the gulf war, and got more tank kill counts with their tow missiles than the abrams

This post has been edited by KYPMbangi: Feb 19 2015, 08:45 PM
keown83
post Feb 19 2015, 08:42 PM

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QUOTE(kungfugymnast @ Feb 19 2015, 03:51 PM)
The added armor is so thick making the leopard 2 looks like big box with cannon.

Can PT91 defeat this well protected boxy leo2? Leo2 has better engine, speed, mobility, visual, firepower, fire control system and armor. Pt91 would have to fire few rounds to destroy leo2.
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only stupid arrogant general will go on tanks vs tanks, especially within this archipelagos doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif

war is not a video game, kiddo..war is not about whos penis is bigger & thicker & whos toys is better


pziv2
post Feb 19 2015, 09:09 PM

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QUOTE(keown83 @ Feb 19 2015, 08:42 PM)
only stupid arrogant general will go on tanks vs tanks, especially within this archipelagos  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif

war is not a video game, kiddo..war is not about whos penis is bigger & thicker & whos toys is better
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it's just too juicy not to argue about, that's why you have threads with 50+ pages going on about Leo2 vs M1, T90 vs M1, Challenger2 vs Merkava, etc etc. it's really quite entertaining to compare, just like kerolzarmyfanboy said - NVIDIA vs AMD.

that said it really veers topics off course.


ayanami_tard
post Feb 19 2015, 09:23 PM

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which is why "x vs y" argument in mp.net is usually met with cruel trolling and permanent ban
waja2000
post Feb 19 2015, 09:25 PM

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CMN to unveil the upgraded Combattante BR 71 (Baynunah class) Mk II Corvette

French shipyard CMN, part of Privinvest holding company, will unveil a new version of its famous Baynunah class corvette during IDEX/NAVDEX 2015 defense exhibition which starts on Sunday in Abu Dhabi. Based on the sea proven Combattante BR 71 corvette, the new Mk II evolution incorporates the latest innovations from CMN's research and development. It also leverages some of the design work from the FS56 Fast Attack Craft series.

user posted image

detail
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?o...sk=view&id=2428
lulz
post Feb 19 2015, 09:26 PM

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can add one more topic, m16 vs ak47. Go!
KYPMbangi
post Feb 19 2015, 09:33 PM

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QUOTE(waja2000 @ Feb 19 2015, 09:25 PM)
CMN to unveil the upgraded Combattante BR 71 (Baynunah class) Mk II Corvette

French shipyard CMN, part of Privinvest holding company, will unveil a new version of its famous Baynunah class corvette during IDEX/NAVDEX 2015 defense exhibition which starts on Sunday in Abu Dhabi. Based on the sea proven Combattante BR 71 corvette, the new Mk II evolution incorporates the latest innovations from CMN's research and development. It also leverages some of the design work from the FS56 Fast Attack Craft series.

user posted image

detail
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?o...sk=view&id=2428
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Hope they also to be considered in msian corvette programme icon_rolleyes.gif
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 19 2015, 09:34 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Feb 19 2015, 08:20 PM)
The t95 is now replaced by the armata project which is a multiple weapons platform that will features unmanned turret, turret bustle ammo compartment, improved armor, active protection system and front engine. The design emphasizes more of the crew protection priority while still maintaining the medium weight tank class for mobility like their predecessor

please dun hate russian tank, every tank is built differently for different purpose, you can love one but dun hate the other..
same goes for shitty tanks like arjun and sheridan
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What hate are you referring? I only speak the truth. The Russians already knew the their tanks have been inferior in 80's compared to western heavy tanks. Because of lack of budget in their financial crisis, they had no choice but to drop the heavy tank project & came up with toned down T80 instead to replace aging t64. Then in 90's after seeing the superiority of abrams & challengers, they came up with t95 project. Because of financial situation their plan for proper t95 was again being cancelled and substituted with remake t72 renamed t90.

Today, russia is earning a lot by buying cheap oil from IS and they expect American might intervene with ukraine conflict, the Russians finally gave greenlight for their heavy tank project weighing >50tons.

Regarding the bradley scouts you mentioned, they operate in small numbers recon only and will engage only if being spotted and attacked. Usually, these scouts would wait for abrams platoon to move in for the kill. Range of TOW2 missiles are about 3~4 miles. They only provide support fire behind abrams. Abrams guns max range about 3 miles.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 19 2015, 09:42 PM

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QUOTE(keown83 @ Feb 19 2015, 08:42 PM)
only stupid arrogant general will go on tanks vs tanks, especially within this archipelagos  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif

war is not a video game, kiddo..war is not about whos penis is bigger & thicker & whos toys is better
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You ignore tanks capabilities means you're ignorant & putting your troops in danger. If 2 warring states generals have similar level skills and strategies, the better tank would win. If general A commands Abrams tank platoon vs general B who commands t72 tank platoon. The abram has better armour, long range accuracy and warhead penetration. If you're general B, you think your platoon will survive?

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