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> Military Thread V15, Gong Xi Fa Cai; Huat ah

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SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 17 2015, 11:23 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Feb 17 2015, 11:10 PM)
Breaking: Reports say Pro-Russian separatist forces assault Debaltsevo city again from Northeast direction. Fighting reaches city center, bulk of Ukrainian forces withdraw southwest towards suburb of Olkhovatka

Reports are coming in that state that pro-Russian separatists have broken through the defensive lines and has penetrated into the center of Debaltsevo city. Heavy street fighting occuring with separatist with tank and artillery support. At the moment separatist sources say they have captured the train yards and the industrial center, with up to 300 Ukrainian soldiers have surrendered and that the bulk of the Ukrainians forces has withdrawn southwest towards the suburb of Olkhovatka. SOme Ukrainian forces still holed up in the residential quarter of the city.

“The army has taken 80 percent of the town,” Eduard Basurin, an official with the separatist region’s defense ministry, told Interfax. “It’s only the private residential sector that is left and soon Debaltseve will be under our control.”
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Ukrainian forces could hardly win the war unless US & Nato supply new advanced IFV with trophy system, AH-1z viper, small arms, etc. The Russia backed separatists are actually more well armed and equipped.

The Ukrainian air force fighters are in bad shape, lack of parts and poorly maintained. The ground forces, the tanks are already old and obsolete. Bmp2 has thin armor and badly cramped inside with poor visual & fire control system. Their T72, T80 lacks ERA and couldn't survive rpg29 and kornet anti~tank missiles.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 17 2015, 11:34 PM

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QUOTE(Piap @ Feb 17 2015, 11:21 PM)
Nei mind lah if it is either typhoon or rafale or super horny

As long the jet can woo viewers below during Lima, merdeka day..can make good acrobatics. Then good enuf already.

Get a shenyang j-16 or chengdu j-10 also good what.
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Getting Chengdu j10 is like buying china made car. :-D
Buying it is a gamble, in time of war last minute only find out good or not.

Typhoon is too expensive, rafale cheaper but both spare parts from Europe usually expensive like buying conti fully imported. yawn.gif

F/A-18E/F is proven in combat, cheap maintenance, guaranteed reliable. Most war involve BVR and mostly ground attack sorties. Super Hornet is good weapons platform for air to air and air to ground. Its AESA radar has more range and power than Typhoon and Rafale. In BVR engagement, the better radar could guide AMRAAM better with lower chances of getting spoofed by countermeasure. Short range dogfight, the wide aspect off boresight AIM-9X assisted by helmet cue could splash even the most agile fighter.

SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 17 2015, 11:47 PM

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QUOTE(OvenBaked @ Feb 17 2015, 02:38 PM)
Boeing with extremly affordable and BAE with their fresh tech and hawk

user posted image

Saab and Dassault giveup already ke , senyap je laugh.gif
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Saab Gripen could only carry limited armaments on its 7 pylons. It could barely match the f-16c/d block 50/52 that turns many off. More of a cheaper substitute of f16. The newer block 60 f-16E/F with CFT giving it further combat range.

Rafale lacks good radar having just medium range capability. It has really good maneuverability but looking into overall capabilities, the other fighters around similar budget offer more.

Between these fighters, which will you buy for your air force?
Rafale, saab gripen, typhoon, f16e/f, f/a18e/f, mig35, su-27sm3 or su-30m2?

This post has been edited by kungfugymnast: Feb 18 2015, 12:05 AM
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 17 2015, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(Piap @ Feb 17 2015, 11:46 PM)
Why cant they just add up the su-30mkm? Easy what..no need to buy new tool box, save cost amd training and armament etc. just add up a new squadron..voila!
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Su30mkm is heavy fighter and guzzles more fuel to operate. If your entire air force fleet having just Su30, your fuel cost will be real high. That's why they need medium & small fighters for fuel saving patrol, scout, etc to supplement the flankers.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 12:03 AM

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QUOTE(hafizushi @ Feb 17 2015, 09:07 AM)
btw i never seen t84 oplot yet in this conflict, where are those tank goes?ukraine to keep their trump card perhaps?
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T84 already scrapped when there was no buyer. Ukrainian military inventory for their remaining air force and army are in sorry state. The navy is already gone while air force lack spare parts and poorly maintained. The migs and sukhois are russian made. Since Ukraine is now enemy of mother Russia, the Russians no longer sell parts to Ukraine.

Ukraine's hope is to buy from US & Nato. In time of war, if the country has resources and future economic woes, they can buy on credit loan terms where in return, future business trade & contract must be given to country that contribute weapons.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(waja2000 @ Feb 18 2015, 12:18 AM)
Not agree on this  ...  smile.gif
learn more on Rafale.
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Already did. Rafale nose radome could only fit smaller medium range radar. F/A-18E/F radome is much bigger that it could fit larger extended medium range radar.

Comparing Rafale to F-16E, rafale would lose BVR engagement meaning you'll need to perform evasive maneuver a lot hoping to engage the f16 in dogfight. MICA AR really lacks the range compared to AIM-120C7.

When comes to ground attack, the F/A-18E/F is best after F-15E. It could carry more armaments destroying more ground targets than the Rafale could. F-16E with improved engine too could perform ground attack role well despite its small size. Only problem with buying from Americans, they have strict political requirements like you must follow what Americans said.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 08:19 AM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Feb 18 2015, 12:14 AM)
Buying mkm no longer possible given the current russian and western relation.
The best solution available is to go for leasing gripen.
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Gripen is just toned down F-16C block 30. Since Singapore has block 50/52, better go for Mig-35 or Rafale.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 08:29 AM

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QUOTE(MasBoleh! @ Feb 18 2015, 12:52 AM)
Erm..What do you guys think about Main Battle Tank 3000?



and the top 2 looks badass ohmy.gif
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MBT best armor Challenger 2 but slowest.
Best fuel efficiency Leclerc
Best combat proven M-1A2SEP but worst FC
Best urban warfare with anti-missile defenses with troop carrier capability Merkava Mk4 with trophy defenses.
Best price China made Type99 with unproven tech
Best class German luxury feel Leopard 2A6

The commanche has been cancelled and will only be revive if more countries against America own lots of advanced pantsir defenses. Best attack helicopter is still held by Apache.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 07:20 PM

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QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ Feb 18 2015, 09:21 AM)
And Leopard Revolution..........

user posted image
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That's Singapore upgraded version of earlier leopard 2A4 with added extra Armour to side of tracks cover and for the turret's front, side and rear. The armour seems really thick, no other mbt extended the side to that much until it can add another set of wheels, return rollers & track on each side
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 07:29 PM

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QUOTE(MasBoleh! @ Feb 18 2015, 05:42 PM)
Woah Thank you bro.. for the comment.

Oh ya, why some Apache helicopter got the big round thing on top of the fan while some do not have?  hmm.gif 

Got the big round thing on top of the fan
user posted image

Do not have the big round thing ton top of the fan
user posted image
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AH-64D has the mini radar on top the main rotor to give it detection capability of 10~20nm. You can use the radar to search for enemy tanks even if weather is foggy. Just Below the radar, there are visual FLIR that allows the Longbow to hide behind trees, walls, hills, buildings to peak at unsuspecting enemies then launch hellfire missiles while hidden.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 08:08 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Feb 18 2015, 11:41 AM)
As I said leasing gripen is a much better deals given our budget conditions.
gripen is lots better than f16 blk30.
migs 35 no thanks.
rafale momey is the problem.
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F16 only has block 50 onwards, they don't produce older f16s anymore except 2nd hand. That means Gripen tech is far behind f16s now.

What's wrong with mig35? It has advanced radar and can be made compatible with Americans and french armaments. They claim engine lifespan improved, won't repeat what happen to our migs
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 09:14 PM

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QUOTE(waja2000 @ Feb 18 2015, 09:55 AM)
your just see too suface thing....
well radar not only see size, also how good is Rx/Tx module, what is power of each module. how good is on board computer process.

for BVR .... no need much maneuver, only alot maneuver in dogfight, and too sample to said Rafale will loose, AIM-120C7 is 120km range, but it have to fire at 70km max because you attack target will run also, that jet not waiting there at 120km waiting you to shoot. at fire missile more than 70km range successfull hit rate only at 40%. 100km just less than 20%. and 120km just base on strait line range. so went both jet close betwwen 50-90km, is up to who get the position to fire the missile first. pilot skill and experience, how good pilot interactive with fighter also very importance.
and F16E APG-80 no better than RBE-2AA actually, mostly about same.  and for Rafale/EF2000 soon will come with Meteor BVRAAM.
Other han that, our RMAF event can't get AIM-C7,only C5 we get. if we get F18, hopefully get C7, if not point get F18EF.
and nowdays jet figther also include IRST sensor to track target and fire missile, not necessary radar will turn ON. depend situation.

ground attack just Rafale best capability. it have 14 hardpoint and 9 tons+ payload.  more hardpoint/payload than than F18EF, at lease capability on pair with F18EF. both no issue on Close Air Support mission.
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When Amraam gets decreased effective range against agile fast fighters, the MICA too had the same range reduction. Check Falklands war, the British Harriers scored most of the air to air kills with Aim-9L (first all aspect IR guided) engaging Argentine mirages, etendards, skyhawks head on catching them by surprise as the argentineans were expecting to get by pass and dogfight.

Americans had more experience in detecting incoming missiles that they came up with radar incorporated RWR system. So aere the Russians who claimed their PESA has ability to track and shoot down air to air & SAM missiles like in stealth movie.

I would love to have russian and american fighters. The americans have buy back plan like car trade in if you bought from same manufacturer such as Boeing. RMAF could trade in their existing F/A-18D fleet for F/A-18F paying the remaining cash. Only downside of buying americans is lots of political rules to obey. French, brits, russians no trade in, have to sell at mudah 2nd hand.

SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Feb 18 2015, 07:34 PM)
No that pic is really the Rheinmetall Leopard 2 MBT Revolution.

Rheinmetall Leopard 2 MBT Revolution video:


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Ok, didn't know they have such extra added armor upgrade to challenge challenger 2 advanced chobham gen5 armour and m-1a2sep.

War nowadays involving militants, think having thicker armour advanced IFV is more practical. You can deploy troops at the same time. Check Sulu invasion, getting attack helicopters and advanced IFV more relevant. Operating cost also much lower compared to fighter jets.

Fighter jets are actually most costly to maintain as they burn most fuel, required most maintenance before & after flight.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 10:10 PM

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QUOTE(waja2000 @ Feb 18 2015, 09:33 PM)
wait europe get there Meteor in production, than will be Rafale/EF2000 main BVRAAM. anyway recently USAF report said the AIM-120 easy to jam out there missile radar, so ask for new develop BVRAAM.
RMAF just pay alot money for upgrade F18D, so no way to trade in.
as your said, so many rule on Americans jet, so better dont buy it. brows.gif
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The meteor has further range than the rafale's radar maximum tracking range. Meaning that Rafale could only fully utilise the meteor with help from AWACS or GCI radar.

Americans had most experience in war knowing much how missile guidance works better. Russians got their experience by gathering feedback and report from allies syria, libya, iraq, serbia and also from 3rd party insurgents/militants. With help of russian researchers, the serbians managed to track and shoot down stealth F-117. French weapons have some success as proven in several wars.

The bosnian war displayed best result of french vs russian weapons before america intervened in later 1994. Result is french weapons not too advanced than russian weapons where french forces suffered high losses and failed to defeat serbian forces.

Mig-35 vs rafale, which do you prefer?
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(waja2000 @ Feb 18 2015, 10:16 PM)
Do you think Rafale new RBE2-AA (AESA) radar is short range ? biggrin.gif
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The most it could go is up to f-16e and typhoon level. These fighters have relatively small radome with very limited space. Check the F/A-18e/f radome, it is only slightly smaller than f-15 that it could house larger more powerful radar.

Russian PESA capability, the pantsir could track and engage bombs, missiles carried by fighters. The russian claim probably true that its PESA could detect and track these small targets. PESA is developed out of russian researchers conducting detection research on American aircrafts during bosnia and kosovo campaign.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 18 2015, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Feb 18 2015, 10:13 PM)
The migs not even in mrca list.. why would need to consider?  sweat.gif

f18sh ftw
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Today not in mrca list doesn't mean tomorrow won't. If i bought the mig35, i would carry mix us, russian & french armaments.

Air to air:
2x r77rvvaepd for long range, 2x aim120c5/7 medium range & 4x r74 short range.

Air to ground close air support
2x r74, 6x agm65g (on 2x3 rack), 2x3 rack LAU10 zuni rockets or agm65g, 2 more pylons for either r77, agm88 harm or rbk-550 cluster bombs.

Anti-ship
2x r74, 2x r77 or aim120c, 4x kh31 or kh58 or exocet.

SEAD
2x r74, 2x countermeasure pods, 4x agm88 or kh31 anti-radiation, centreline for jammerpod.

If got into dogfight, it has 3d TVC and helmet mounted cue. Its radar is advanced PESA with tech obtained from detecting f117 defeating its stealth. Russian has air to air passive guided missile r27ep that tracks enemy fighter radar.

SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 19 2015, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(thpace @ Feb 19 2015, 12:13 AM)
shakehead.gif

if u want russian plane to carry European armaments, still can bincang, if Russian want to integrate them for you. But the situation now is highly unlikely

If u want a russian plane to use US armaments, dont need hope at all. Will nvr happen. Dont say about technical difficulties russian will give answer no laugh.gif
same so to asking our f18 to carry russian missiles. US will just say no sweat.gif
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Russian manufacturers sukhoi & mikoyan already have the compatibility pack ready. Old mig21 also already have such mods in late 70's that it could carry r550 magic missiles. You don't have to customise anything, when you place order, they will offer you for which package and additional add on std.

Iranian F-14, F-4E, F-5E are now carrying chinese and russian armaments, no problem. Engines probably russians too.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 19 2015, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(waja2000 @ Feb 19 2015, 12:45 AM)
the Ebris-E PESA not that high tech actually, more like marketing talk, it can detection range very far, but just inaccurate detection, just like "hyperopia" but not sharp what they see.  if very-very good T-50 or Mig35 wont use AESA radar any more.
seems you just on dream .....  laugh.gif
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Irbis E is more expensive and heavier, only suitable for larger fighter such as su35 and t50.

Correction on mig35, it uses AESA radar. Fyi, Russian AESA radar was developed out of russian research on us stealth aircrafts over serbia too. What makes you think the Russians failed to design good radar? French never had BVR kills but Russians do mostly from SAMs shooting down F16c, f15e, f/a-18c, f117, mirage 2000 in 90's.

Mig35 vs rafale, the r77 or r27ae would probably splash rafale.
SUSkungfugymnast
post Feb 19 2015, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(kerolzarmyfanboy @ Feb 19 2015, 12:47 AM)
would it kill the designers to create more comfort for the tank crews..?  sweat.gif  sweat.gif
is it that hard to create a cool n proper air conditioning system for a tank  yawn.gif
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Tank manufacturers aren't air cond specialist and they don't have specific AC vendor. They'll tell you to buy from Denso. US & Nato tanks operating in us desert, iraq and afghanistan all have fitted aircond fitted by outside vendors. Cheaper this way, don't have to worry about getting 2nd markup by manufacturer.
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post Feb 19 2015, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(thpace @ Feb 19 2015, 02:10 AM)


Russia tank factory Uralvagonzavod

new tank design look into APS
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This T90 has separate crew compartment and ammo storage like western tanks? If not, this upgraded T90 is not a good tank. T90 is just remake t72b with cramped interior and deadly autoloader known of ripping off tank crew's hand. No thanks.

Russia should come up with new mbt. T90 is no match against insurgents rpg29 and IED. M1a2sep, challenger2, leopard 2a6, leclerc would destroy t90 easily.

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