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> Engine Oil Reviews/Technical talk v2, Everything Automotive lubricants/fluids

ZeroSP
post Aug 10 2014, 11:18 AM

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So a TBN of 7.8 is low? But too many factors to consider as I read through all those technicals.
Klemann C
post Aug 10 2014, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 10 2014, 05:36 AM)
so you got too much performance/good FC and want to lower that by going for thicker EO?
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My usual workshop mechanic reckon should try w-50 for better
top end & can reduced lifter noise..not sure about fc part might be worsen or better...

QUOTE(efaceninja @ Aug 10 2014, 08:53 AM)
why you want to change to xw-50 oil? is it because want extra protection? or.. you expect that it will give quieter noise? or.. the foreman keep asking you to take xw-50?
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Heard some owner of 4G93, engine will get better top end power band & lifter noise reduced also..

Btw, I saw tesco offered RM139 for Mobil1 5w-50..tempting get 1 biggrin.gif
Quazacolt
post Aug 10 2014, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(ZeroSP @ Aug 10 2014, 11:18 AM)
So a TBN of 7.8 is low? But too many factors to consider as I read through all those technicals.
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well API SN specified within 6.1-8
so 7.8 is just right.

also depends on how you drive as well and what OCI you're practicing.

QUOTE(Klemann C @ Aug 10 2014, 02:38 PM)
My usual workshop mechanic reckon should try w-50 for better
top end & can reduced lifter noise..not sure about fc part might be worsen or better...
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try different brand/model of lubes, not thicker viscosity.
izso
post Aug 11 2014, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(Klemann C @ Aug 10 2014, 02:46 AM)
All the while been using 10w40, 0w40 since I'd got my car.
Engine feedback respond is quite positive since my car engine is 4G93..as you know this engine valve lifter prone to noisy & loud due to different EO grade used.
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Try Penrite 5W40 HPR or their premium range. Confirm will reduce lifter noise. Don't know how it does it.
WinterAngeLs
post Aug 11 2014, 03:22 PM

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Thanks for the interesting info thumbup.gif

Btw, i came across these 2 today.
user posted image
user posted image

Seems cheap. whats the normal price btw?
Any owners have any feedback using them on a 4B11 and 1NZ-FE? which is the better of the 2?
phobian
post Aug 11 2014, 09:37 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 7 2014, 01:02 PM)
I've got 4 cans of 300V on the way to service my Evo and a bottle of Penrite 10Tenths for flush with Liquimoly flushing fluid. Only because I've neglected to service the car for a bit due to being onsite and my housemates driving it around for a bit.

Also doing the 1500km break in service for my BMW. But this time with strong fluid that resists crankcase dilution because the N54 and N55 are very famous engines for utterly destroying even the toughest engine oils due to the ultra high pressure direct injection it uses. This might be a tough one to figure out.
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300v 15w50 for your 4B11T?

For a good 60k kms, I was happy with TorqNM's VM155 15w50 until my friend decided to close his business. Currently running on Synergie 6100 15w50 and not really happy with it.
Quazacolt
post Aug 11 2014, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(WinterAngeLs @ Aug 11 2014, 03:22 PM)
Thanks for the interesting info  thumbup.gif

Btw, i came across these 2 today.

Seems cheap. whats the normal price btw?
Any owners have any feedback using them on a 4B11 and 1NZ-FE? which is the better of the 2?
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no comments on the 1NZ-FE engine as i'm not worthy.
for 4B1x, i'd prefer to go xw20 strictly.

however if you're ok on xw40, consider this instead thanks to nzh0920
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=69341868

ori price is rm230-240ish.

That's the last natural gas pureplus base stock collaborated with Pennzoil.
Quazacolt
post Aug 11 2014, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(phobian @ Aug 11 2014, 09:37 PM)
300v 15w50 for your 4B11T?

For a good 60k kms, I was happy with TorqNM's VM155 15w50 until my friend decided to close his business. Currently running on Synergie 6100 15w50 and not really happy with it.
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he ran with xw20 on regular roads and xw30 for hard tracking usage iinm
Klemann C
post Aug 11 2014, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 10 2014, 07:26 PM)
try different brand/model of lubes, not thicker viscosity.
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How about 30 viscosity? Thinner & lighter?

QUOTE(izso @ Aug 11 2014, 11:20 AM)
Try Penrite 5W40 HPR or their premium range. Confirm will reduce lifter noise. Don't know how it does it.
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Thanks for suggesting bro 😊
managed bought Mitsubishi Fully Syn 5w-40 from Aeon today RM119 costed slightly more than those forumer selling here..

This post has been edited by Klemann C: Aug 11 2014, 11:21 PM
Quazacolt
post Aug 11 2014, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(Klemann C @ Aug 11 2014, 11:19 PM)
How about 30 viscosity? Thinner & lighter?
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assuming the original specification was xw40, sure why not.

although even 4g15 was ORIGINALLY specified to be xw30 from Mitsubishi Service manual i dug up some time ago. Proton called xw50 laugh.gif
considering you mentioned Mitsubishi engine... who knows eh lol
ZeroSP
post Aug 12 2014, 05:06 AM

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xw-20, I wanna try it long ago for its lighter properties. Just don't know which one therefore have been using 5W-40 all the way. For K20Z2 by the way.
empire23
post Aug 12 2014, 06:46 AM

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QUOTE(phobian @ Aug 11 2014, 09:37 PM)
300v 15w50 for your 4B11T?

For a good 60k kms, I was happy with TorqNM's VM155 15w50 until my friend decided to close his business. Currently running on Synergie 6100 15w50 and not really happy with it.
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That's 20 weight higher than what Mitsubishi recommends. Unless you're driving Le Mans 24hrs or some form of endurance racing with elevated temperatures with a requirement to maintain very stable oil pressures, that's too heavy and you'll never get the temps high enough for the oil to pass through the squirters and journals at the right rate.

Essentially if you don't drive it hard enough, an oil at that weight will wear your engine faster. Also being a MPFI engine, you won't have problems with dilution, which means your oil weight more or less stays the same. 15W is quite thick upon start up and thus unless there a strong ester or metal "clingy" additive, you will experience more wear upon start up as Mitsubishi recommends a maximum of 5W all year round for summer conditions with 0w for winter.
Quazacolt
post Aug 12 2014, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 12 2014, 06:46 AM)
That's 20 weight higher than what Mitsubishi recommends. Unless you're driving Le Mans 24hrs or some form of endurance racing with elevated temperatures with a requirement to maintain very stable oil pressures, that's too heavy and you'll never get the temps high enough for the oil to pass through the squirters and journals at the right rate.

Essentially if you don't drive it hard enough, an oil at that weight will wear your engine faster. Also being a MPFI engine, you won't have problems with dilution, which means your oil weight more or less stays the same.  15W is quite thick upon start up and thus unless there a strong ester or metal "clingy" additive, you will experience more wear upon start up as Mitsubishi recommends a maximum of 5W all year round for summer conditions with 0w for winter.
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and there you have it!

ps: AFAIK proton recommends 10w40 for the inspira so... rolleyes.gif
empire23
post Aug 12 2014, 11:54 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 12 2014, 11:18 AM)
and there you have it!

ps: AFAIK proton recommends 10w40 for the inspira so... rolleyes.gif
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That's within the range of Mistubishi's recommendation but 10W is as thick as you'd go upon startup if you want acceptable engine wear. That's I usually don't go any higher than 5W. 40 weight is quite heavy but still within the 10+- rule of thumb I use.

But going 50 is outside that rule and thus the oil would have a seriously hard time squeezing past those journals and tiny oil passages.

Anyways ordering 8 litres of Motul DCTF now. Nearly 200 dollars or 600 ringgit. Need to service the Getrag DCT in the car as well. Filter oso mahal.
Quazacolt
post Aug 12 2014, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 12 2014, 11:54 AM)
That's within the range of Mistubishi's recommendation but 10W is as thick as you'd go upon startup if you want acceptable engine wear. That's I usually don't go any higher than 5W. 40 weight is quite heavy but still within the 10+- rule of thumb I use.

But going 50 is outside that rule and thus the oil would have a seriously hard time squeezing past those journals and tiny oil passages.

Anyways ordering 8 litres of Motul DCTF now. Nearly 200 dollars or 600 ringgit. Need to service the Getrag DCT in the car as well. Filter oso mahal.
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4B11T maybe, 4B10/4B11 recommended is 0w20 and it's +20 heavier.
it's a NA econ box afterall wink.gif

hmm 8 liters for rm600 (75/l, somemore things at Australia seems a lot more expensive in comparison) doesn't seem all too bad.
i'm paying like rm50/liter for Motul's ATF 1A
seem like the way to go if i'm letting go of lubegard platinum additive. That, and my favorite Caltex ATF-J price hike doh.gif (maybe i spread the word too much on LYN and caltex got wind of it, like Techron concentrated additive)
empire23
post Aug 12 2014, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 12 2014, 11:59 AM)
4B11T maybe, 4B10/4B11 recommended is 0w20 and it's +20 heavier.
it's a NA econ box afterall wink.gif

hmm 8 liters for rm600 (75/l, somemore things at Australia seems a lot more expensive in comparison) doesn't seem all too bad.
i'm paying like rm50/liter for Motul's ATF 1A
seem like the way to go if i'm letting go of lubegard platinum additive. That, and my favorite Caltex ATF-J price hike doh.gif (maybe i spread the word too much on LYN and caltex got wind of it, like Techron concentrated additive)
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I think that's the new recommendation but it isn't due to a technical concern, it is because Mitsubishi had to satisfy the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) for most of its cars sold and a lighter oil helps it do that. Proton doesn't need to satisfy CAFE laws in the US.

The Evos don't have a renewed recommendation because CAFE is sales weighted. Meaning the cars that sell the most are the most affected.

Thus I'd try both 0W-30 and 0W-20 and get UOA analysis done on them to determine which is best for what. As you have no turbo to contend with, but your clearances might be more/less due to many factors as the 4B11T uses Mahle's forged hypereutectic pistons in a 2618 alloy. But being within the range you can't go wrong.

I usually buy all my DCT lube from the US or Europe. Too mahal here. Motul DCTF is nearly double that price I buy local. If I buy Mitsubishi DiaQueen SSTF-1 (rebranded Castrol Transmax Dual), it is 500 dollars for 8 litres from Mitsubishi.
Quazacolt
post Aug 12 2014, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 12 2014, 12:13 PM)
I think that's the new recommendation but it isn't due to a technical concern, it is because Mitsubishi had to satisfy the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) for most of its cars sold and a lighter oil helps it do that. Proton doesn't need to satisfy CAFE laws in the US.

The Evos don't have a renewed recommendation because CAFE is sales weighted. Meaning the cars that sell the most are the most affected.

Thus I'd try both 0W-30 and 0W-20 and get UOA analysis done on them to determine which is best for what. As you have no turbo to contend with, but your clearances might be more/less due to many factors as the 4B11T uses Mahle's forged hypereutectic pistons in a 2618 alloy. But being within the range you can't go wrong.

I usually buy all my DCT lube from the US or Europe. Too mahal here. Motul DCTF is nearly double that price I buy local. If I buy Mitsubishi DiaQueen SSTF-1 (rebranded Castrol Transmax Dual), it is 500 dollars for 8 litres from Mitsubishi.
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aye that's pretty much my reasoning on sticking with the lightest viscosity within Mitsubishi's range.

My UOA did show a bit high wear despite the additives, but hey who knows if they are the ones causing trouble instead? lol
then again the lab guys weren't concern about the wear i'm experience due to the engine being very new and i do trash it very hard.

btw once i can confirm on some figures i'll post my latest dyno...
it's as you said, the ecu seriously did richen itself insanely despite the richest value on the remapped is 12.8 AFR
OBD already shows commanded AFR being 11.5-12 so it definitely due air filter stuck or air starvation... i actually double checked the drop in box to confirm there's no dead rat sitting in there rclxub.gif

ah that pricing is not from AUD? then yea it is rather pricey, though being in the limited DCT market, i guess it cant be helped sad.gif
phobian
post Aug 12 2014, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 12 2014, 12:13 PM)
I usually buy all my DCT lube from the US or Europe. Too mahal here. Motul DCTF is nearly double that price I buy local. If I buy Mitsubishi DiaQueen SSTF-1 (rebranded Castrol Transmax Dual), it is 500 dollars for 8 litres from Mitsubishi.
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Cheam@C&R Autocare Glenmarie carries Motul DCTF. Cant recall the exact price, but was told its lesser than RM100 if I recall correctly. If my 20L pack of HKS cannot reach in time, its either Motul DCTF or Millers.

Well noted and thanks for the heads up on Mitsubishi's recommended grade of engine oil.
Quazacolt
post Aug 12 2014, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(phobian @ Aug 12 2014, 03:51 PM)
Cheam@C&R Autocare Glenmarie carries Motul DCTF. Cant recall the exact price, but was told its lesser than RM100 if I recall correctly. If my 20L pack of HKS cannot reach in time, its either Motul DCTF or Millers.

Well noted and thanks for the heads up on Mitsubishi's recommended grade of engine oil.
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btw glad you happen to stumble across this thread also, hopefully i get to see you in action personally during Sepang thumbup.gif
bro empire23 is in Australia i believe and his Evo X is now a supermarket car unsure.gif

do give it a go with lower viscosities; You've been missing out a LOT on your 4B11T man wink.gif
heck i'm a lowly 4B10 and i've been really happy on it's rev happy nature with 0w20 EO's since day 1 wink.gif
empire23
post Aug 12 2014, 06:33 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 12 2014, 12:19 PM)
aye that's pretty much my reasoning on sticking with the lightest viscosity within Mitsubishi's range.

My UOA did show a bit high wear despite the additives, but hey who knows if they are the ones causing trouble instead? lol
then again the lab guys weren't concern about the wear i'm experience due to the engine being very new and i do trash it very hard.

btw once i can confirm on some figures i'll post my latest dyno...
it's as you said, the ecu seriously did richen itself insanely despite the richest value on the remapped is 12.8 AFR
OBD already shows commanded AFR being 11.5-12 so it definitely due air filter stuck or air starvation... i actually double checked the drop in box to confirm there's no dead rat sitting in there  rclxub.gif

ah that pricing is not from AUD? then yea it is rather pricey, though being in the limited DCT market, i guess it cant be helped sad.gif
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You'll have high wear for your first UOA and it progressively gets lower as everything fits in. As for your tuning I'd suggest sitting down with a WBO2 sensor and tuning up everything after a few pulls.

If you're going rich, I'd check the knock value and see if it is the ECU compensating for knock. Also check your ignition time. I believe that investing in a Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 cable for logging while you do your WOT pulls might be a wise investment.

QUOTE(phobian @ Aug 12 2014, 03:51 PM)
Cheam@C&R Autocare Glenmarie carries Motul DCTF. Cant recall the exact price, but was told its lesser than RM100 if I recall correctly. If my 20L pack of HKS cannot reach in time, its either Motul DCTF or Millers.

Well noted and thanks for the heads up on Mitsubishi's recommended grade of engine oil.
*
Motul DCTF is about 25 dollars a bottle over the internet, I'll buy it and it'll probably be here once I get back from site. Hopefully. The filter isn't too hard to find as there's an equivalent Ford part number for it.

I just cleaned the Evo today and wiped all the leather down with cleaner and conditioner, Kyrtoxed all the rubber seals and essentially left it in top condition. If I come back in 3 weeks and the car is dirty, somebody's gonna get hurt real bad.

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