Yea man. Some crazy things happened at the /Kopitiam subforum recently so I am more reserved with sharing personal information in LYN.

No worries.

okok - let me do more research first, will reach out to you if need be

Hi. Salesperson told me 7258279531

If I don't consider the cut precision and just the standard 4Cs alone, the price is actually not bad if I compare against Brian Gavin Diamonds, WhiteFlash, High Performance Diamonds, or James Allen.

However, after I take into account the cut precision: That diamond has a score of 88.4 on Enchanted Cut Score (only works for GIA cert) and a score of 2.7 on HCA (works for any round brilliant diamond). Also, this diamond has a strong blue fluorescence, which usually won't bring too much problem, but it still makes the value even lower. So ultimately, the price seems to be okay, but that is only because of VVS1 clarity, which does not bring much value in terms of light performance.

This diamond will probably leak light as well because it is too deep at 63.2%. It may or may not be a Hearts & Arrows diamond, but you can check this with the salesperson because they should be able to let you see the top of the diamond for the Arrows and the bottom of the diamond for the Hearts.

If I am not wrong, you seem to be aiming at carat size. Therefore, I have filtered out a few of them here. All the diamonds listed below are below RM 40k including GST, but excluding ring setting.

WhiteFlash ACA 1.407ct K SI1 - USD 6561 (Note: This diamond has great light return based on IdealScope. My only concern is the inclusion around the table area. Although it should be eye-clean, but eye-clean's definition is like a few inches away. So, if you view the diamond right in front of your eyes, maybe you can somehow see the inclusion. I can check with the Bryan from WhiteFlash and see what is his view on this matter. Nonetheless, from standard viewing angle and distance, it is a great looking diamond.)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/r...id=myengringexp (affiliate link)
Update: Bryan just replied me like below:


WhiteFlash ACA 1.406ct K VS2 - USD 7678 (Note: This diamond's light return loses to the other WhiteFlash diamond based on IdealScope. My only concern is the inclusion at the corner of the diamond. There is a chance that you may see the tiny crystal if you put the diamond right in front of your eyes. But from standard viewing angle and distance, it will be eye-clean.)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/r...id=myengringexp (affiliate link)

Brian Gavin Blue 1.525 K VS2 - USD 7981 (Note: This diamond has Medium Blue fluorescence, hence it is called Brian Gavin Blue. I don't seem to find the Hearts & Arrows image, but maybe I can try to ask if you are interested. This diamond's light return also loses to the 1.407 K SI1 diamond by WhiteFlash if based on IdealScope, but probably wins the 1.406ct K VS2 diamond a little.)
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds...?a_aid=myengexp (affiliate link)

There are also a couple of diamonds from James Allen, if you are in Singapore or someone can help you get from Singapore. For example this one: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/r...cut-sku-2291624 - USD 7670. However, the IdealScope is not as great as the 3 diamonds above. The cut precision may lose slightly as well as I can see some very slight obstruction based on IdealScope but that shouldn't be too much of a concern I believe. This diamond wins in terms of clarity and carat size.

There is no diamond I can recommend from High Performance Diamonds based on the budget, therefore I will skip that company.

Let me know if you need further assistance.

Thanks!

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: Jul 6 2017, 11:55 PM

Wow. Thanks for the thorough analysis. Seriously didn't know so much about idealscope, etc. I just thought the diamond look big and shiny. Let me understand further jargons u commented and see the links u shared. Thanks for the taking the trouble and explaining about the diamonds

No problem. All the best!

GIA

What you guys think? 11.6

Enchanted Cut Score is 96.6%.

It is not bad, albeit a bit deep. The fire of this diamond should be excellent based on the 35.5 degree angle. The only concern I will have is that this diamond may have slightly weaker light return but we can only know that for sure with idealscope image. Other proportions (apart from the 62.5% depth) seems fine to me.

Update:
As mentioned in another reply, I will skip this diamond because 41 degree crown angle can only pair with a maximum pavilion depth of 43.3%. This diamond has a pavilion depth of 43.5%

Questions that are left for consideration is whether the diamond's cut is actually excellent, which you can check with a simple H&A viewer (This is provided you can see the actual stone or the seller provides you with the images) and also what is the selling price.

Good luck!

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: Jul 10 2017, 06:35 PM

the selling price is 11.6k. It's from wah chan. I can see the actual stone but don't really know how to determine if it's actually excellent. Isn't what GIA said is excellent already that or there is more to see? Here to learn.

Time for me to share some of my humble knowledge.





All the above are diamonds with triple excellent cut, polish and symmetry from James Allen. For comparison purposes, all 3 are 0.60 D VS2.

Left: Senget arrows at southeast, south and northwest positions. Missing arrows at east and west positions.
Centre: Senget arrows at north, south and northwest positions. Missing arrows at east position.
Right: All 8 arrows are missing.



The above 2 diamonds are taken from James Allen's True Hearts series, which are also given the GIA triple excellent grade for cut, polish and symmetry.

As you can see, the 8 arrows are aligned and there are no missing arrows, which is an indication of highly symmetrical diamonds.

So there you go bro. GIA's excellent cut are defined rather loosely. So you need to really look at the physical diamonds with the aid of scopes to determine its real cut quality and not anyhow trust what you see on paper.



With that being said, the analysis does not stop there. You need to view its hearts from the bottom as well and see if they look fine.

As for light performance, we have the ASET scope, but I will come to that later bro, after you have digested the above information.

Excellent range is quite broad. For example, you get 70% in school you still get 'A' grade, while you get 100% in school you still get 'A' grade. 'A' grade is that excellent.

If you can see the actual stone, that is good. You can probably request the salesperson to show you the diamond under a Hearts & Arrows viewer. It is quite a standard little device that can be found across most jewellery stores. You can view the Arrows from the top of the diamond, while the Hearts from the bottom of the diamond (so you need to flip the diamond over).

For Arrows, it will be something like this:


For Hearts, it will be something like this:


Note: The colour returned will usually be red or blue, depending on the colour in the viewer.

The sample images I showed you above are from Crafted By Infinity carried by High Performance Diamonds, which is one of the super ideal brands out there in the market. Their cut precision is quite excellent, as you can see from the images. Here is the link to that diamond:
http://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9052 (non-affiliate link)
It is priced at USD 3049 and it is a 0.6 G VS2 diamond.

Another diamond I saw will be this one from WhiteFlash:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/r...id=myengringexp (affiliate link)

Take a look at the IdealScope image below. It is something similar to the Arrows image using the H&A image, but IdealScope image can tell how much light is returned from the diamond. In this case, this diamond returns quite a lot of light (not the best), but still a lot:


You rarely get this type of images in Malaysia. But you usually can get it online, especially if you buy from super ideal companies like WhiteFlash, Brian Gavin Diamonds, or High Performance Diamonds.

As for the Hearts & Arrows image of this diamond, it is pretty good:


However, I saw some feather around the edge of this diamond and at VS2 clarity, although it is pretty safe that this diamond won't crack further, I would still prefer to check with the seller first before making any purchase. Other than the feather inclusion, this diamond is a pretty good looking diamond.

Looking at the image of this diamond, it is quite a brilliant diamond. Of course, the price is close to RM 14k (inclusive GST), which is few thousand more than the diamond offered to you by Wah Chan.

So for your price of 11.6k, if the diamond has such optical precision, it is actually a good buy. So you need to check with the salesperson. Even if the diamond did not have optical precision that is as good, take a good look at the diamond by moving it around slowly, looking at its fire and scintillation, try it under both LED light and normal office light. See if the diamond can still perform well under office light or not. Where to look for office light? You can either go outside the store with the salesperson or go to the back office. See if you will feel that the diamond is "right". If it is right, then perhaps you can really consider it.

How does a Hearts & Arrows diamond compared to a normal GIA triple excellent? You can either visit JannPaul on YouTube, or go to Tomei and look at their normal GIA diamonds and their Le Lumiere diamonds. OR go to Diamond & Platinum and look at their normal GIA diamonds and their Estrella diamonds. Although I can't guarantee that those signature diamonds are 100% Hearts & Arrows, but I believe they can at least let you see some difference I hope.

Good luck.

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: Jul 10 2017, 02:47 PM

Had a very bad experience with Le Lumiere Gardens. Their resize job was terrible. Just look at the pics below.

First picture shows the egg shaped ring after resizing.


Second picture below is a collage of the original (bottom pic), resize (middle pic), and fix attempt (top pic) of the resize. Middle pic shows the milgrain pattern virtually polished off, while the top pic shows their clumsy attempt of trying to recreate the milgrain but is is still obviously not uniform.



Now they are telling me that I need to pay extra if need to remake with new stones if the stones are higher carat. When asked why cannot reuse the existing botched ring's stones, the salesperson even had the gall to say might scratch the stones...WTH...are the diamonds fake?

The egg shape is even after they have performed the fix attempt??

The egg shape was sort of fixed after that, but the clumsy attempt to put back the milgrain pattern is still unsatisfactory.

Nice. Thanks for the explanation, i'll be sure to go back to the store to check again. I remember last saw it was at least something like 'very good' in

However something baffles me, while the Enchanted Cut Score is 96.6% seems to be quite good. But the HCA shows

Selected: 62.5% depth, 58% table, 35.5° crown angle, 41° pavilion angle,
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 4.1 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion

Scores of 0-1 are often good for earrings and pendants, but usually not as good for rings. Most people prefer stones that score 1-2 or even top Hearts & Arrows symmetry stones up to 3.0. Zero is almost impossible since many performance factors conflict.


and i remember seeing in this thread that lower is better. Is 4.1 horrible?

This post has been edited by 204: Jul 10 2017, 04:47 PM

Wow, what the fook man?! That's terrible. Was the resizing even done by a qualified craftsman?

I was told it was resized locally instead of sending to Hong Kong for resize. Thus the crap.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Jul 10 2017, 05:10 PM

Ohh my goodness, your wedding band is seriously in a sorry state after the resize.



Was it bought in the same outlet at The Gardens? Have you voiced your displeasure right there and then once you saw the terrible job? This is really unacceptable man!